Bud Selig
 

I know that Bud is pi$$ed because he had to attend the games where Barry Bonds ties and passes Hank Aaron - but his actions tonight were uncalled for and very unprofessional. Barry hit the HR and he has now tied the record. No applause? Turned down the request by ESPN to make a statement in the booth? Hey Bud, you're the freaking commissioner! Grow some stones and act like you are in charge. He could have made some sort of statement about it being a great night for Barry Bonds, his family and the Giant organization. Yes, I'm sure Barry shot up . . . but he has the record - whether or not you agree with his method, he has the record. Selig was out of line in my humble opinion.

He didn't have to attend the games, he has chosen to. Selig was under no obligation to show up. His showing up is more than I thought would happen. You don't see Hank anywhere.

The last Great Commissioner was A. Bartlett Giamatti. Fay Vincent held his own especially on the Pete Rose issue. MLB needs someone who can be the face of the game and who can uphold the dignity of the game. Selig has just been asleep at the wheel for tooooo long.

http://www.quotedb.com/images/author...er_king_jr.jpg

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." -
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

http://mikehawk.files.wordpress.com/...Untitled-2.jpg

Barry Bonds has fulfilled King's dream. He is being judged by the content of his character, that lying, cheating douchebag.

Selig's not asleep, he's just still in the pockets of his fellow owners....

That's true but the Commissioner works for the owners anyway. He has always been their hired gun, so to speak. If a commissioner raised too much guff against the owners' league policies, he wouldn't be commissioner for too long. I just think that Bud doesn't do anything for the game of baseball.

Anything positive?
 

Salary caps?
Six Division titles?
Important All-Star game?
Wildcard {aka 2nd place} team?
World Series home field advantage decided by July?
or
Allowing the Red Sox to pay $51 million to talk to someone?

Absolve the Chicago 8, forgive Pete Rose and then I'll give a rat's behind about a steroid enhanced record breaker! At least those people did it on their own!

Selig had to show up, grow up Supie! then he did what was right. He ignored that cheating a$$hole Bonds and Aaron, who had a choice, did the right thing. Flipped him off too. :mad:

The bottom line is when you prove something about Barry. I will buy all that crap. Until then, it is a record. Barry Bonds has broken it. And the last time I checked steroids were not an illegal substance. I guess we should put an asterisk on all the other records when Blacks were not allowed to play until Jackie Robinson was given an opportunity. Or what about all these new parks where the fences were moved in to help batters hit homers. Or what about expansion which diluted pitching across the Majors over the last 10 years.

Come talk to me when you account for all these things.

Peace

Not to mention all the pitchers who take steroids.

The bottom line is this: Many people take steroids and can't hit a baseball traveling upwards of 90 mph. It takes a talent that steroids cannot produce.

Apparently the pitcher that Bonds hit the home run off of was tested positive for steroids previously. There have actually been more pitchers tested positive than batters.

I also saw that Carlton Fisk hit the exact same number of home runs as Bonds (72) since they reached the age of 40. I guess Fisk was a steroid user too. And Aaron was just a year younger when he hit 755. Sounds to me like a lot of people have some explaining to do. :rolleyes:

Peace

Yeah, like the trainer who supplied Bonds, but he decided to go to jail instead of talk to the grand jury. There'll be a payday for him down the road.

And Bonds, who admitted taking them, but said he didn't know they were performance enhancing.

BTW, steriods are banned substances in baseball.

Hat's off to Hank Aaron. The man has class and the balls to do the right thing.

I take it the you haven't checked since 1990.:) Anabolic steroids used for non-medical purposes have been illegal under federal law since then under the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990.

http://mesomorphosis.com/articles/co...nd-the-law.htm

http://mesomorphosis.com/articles/co...escription.htm

Clay Hensley? I'm going to have to doubt the validity of this. This would be the first I've EVER heard mention of this, and I follow the Padres rather closely. Are you sure about this?

JR, I am not talking about illegal as it relates to the law. Steroids were not a banned substance for MLB and there was no testing for such a drug. The NFL bans all kinds of substances that are legal. The NFL has had a steroids ban since the 80s at least. Mark McGwire was using Androstenedione which could be bought at any GNC at that in the 90s (I am a Cardinal fan). It was a legal supplement that the NFL and other sports organizations long banned. MLB did not see this as a problem. Amphetamines and uppers have been apart of baseball for 50 years and just last year these were outlawed by Major League Baseball. At that time I was discussing with several people about what to take for work out purposes. I had even discussed with a friend about steroids and their affects along with other supplements like Creatine.

Peace

It was apart of the press conference that Bonds was involved in. Bonds was asked a question about the pitcher and what did he think about hitting his homerun off a player that was suspended for steroids.

Peace

Did it ever occur to you, that maybe Greg Anderson did not provide Bonds with any illegal substances and that is why he was willing to go to jail? I know I would not go to jail for someone that is guilty. People that deal with the mafia squeal to save themselves. I find it odd that someone that apparently provided an illegal substance is not telling on them if they really did do what they were accused of. Even the owner of Balco has claimed Bonds was never provided with any illegal substances. Now why would two guilty people stand by Bonds if Bonds was guilty?

Steroids are banned now, they were not banned when Bonds was accused of using them. And ever since they have been banned, the man has not failed a single steroids test. Not one big time player has been found guilty of using steroids. Guys like Benito Santiago was caught and has since retired from the game. Santiago I do not think hit more than 20 homers in any season and ended his career with no more than 15.

As much as I admire Mr. Aaron for all he has been through, but I have lost a lot of respect for him on many levels considering his position. Having been condemned himself when he was breaking the record Aaron should be ashamed of himself for taking any stance other than that of what we know. Even if you say Bonds took steroids, he has not been found out in the last several years. So until we all have proof and stop talking about hat sizes and how big someone is in their older ages, I think it is just wrong. I always find it funny how we give certain people the benefit of the doubt but we want to assume others are guilty as sin (Duke Case, a certain Yankee pitcher).

Peace

if anyone hear really thinks bonds is clean, read the book "game of shadows", if you still think he is clean, why not sue the authors, the publisher, everyone and anyone? when anyone can answer that simple question, i will be more than willing to rethink the issue.

Is your new signature some kind of attempt to justify what Mike Vick did (allegedly) to those poor dogs?

Of course humans are more important than animals, but cruelty to animals is sick, and what Vick did (allegedly) with those dogs is absolutely reprehensible, and I for one hope he goes to prison, which is very likely. If any of us had done this, we would already have been tried, convicted, and sentenced. Vick's celebrity status will possibly allow him to weasel out of it though. Mike Vick is not a good guy.

I wonder if Vick were white, you would be championing his cause. Somehow I doubt it.:(

Well, you asked
 

Because Libel is a very difficult thing to prove in a US court, and a lot of the speculation comes from leaked grand jury transcripts which were illegally made public. It's a mess legally, so Bonds really has no legal option IMO.

If Bonds took steroids he should never be in the HOF, even though he was a first ballot HOFer before all the doping accusations. But, while the guys in "Game of Shadows" has a point, you gotta have proof. And so far, nobody has evidence that Bonds was on the juice that holds up in a court of law. Come up with a test that shows he was using, then he will be held up for ridicule as he should be.

On a side note, for those of you who care, one group of people has been very successful with libel suits: The terror financing Saudis. If you are wondering what I am talking about, look up the recent controversy over the book "Alms for Jihad" by Rachel Ehrenfeld. It is an obsenity.

The issue of "proof" is a red herring. What standard do you propose? "Beyond a reasonable doubt," as in a criminal trial, or "the preponderance of the evidence," as in a civil trial? Oh wait, there's no trial, other than the trial of public opinion.

Barry Bonds started his career about 20 years ago as a scrawny speedster (like his dad was for his whole career). Human bodies don't add that much bulk without enhancement. To my mind, it's more likely than not that Bonds used steroids. I think that it's reasonable to conclude that Bonds probably used performance enhancing substances. So what?

I'm not one of those who thinks that baseball should castigate, flagellate, or otherwise punish Bonds for his transgressions. If Bonds broke the law, it's up to the legal system to punish him; if he offended you personally by his behavior, then you're entitled to bad-mouth him. But he has hit a ball over a fence 755 times, which only one other person has done, even WITH all the juicing going on.

To judge by his public statements and the behavior of too many people around him, Bonds is an a$$. I don't doubt that he has endured vicious and racist comments, but his insistence on playing the race card at every opportunity - comparing himself to Jackie Robinson and others - is grandiose and despicable.

But aren't Bonds and his fellow (likely-) juicers "bad for baseball"? Sure. I don't like the idea of people getting an edge in this way. I think that baseball should do what it takes to police its personnel, and to uphold as high a standard of competition and fair play as it can. It has been lax in this regard, and I think that Selig and his cronies take the attitude of doing the least they can while still filling the seats - in other words, for them, it's about business and not principle. That's one consequence of having an owner-commissioner.

But I don't see how all that concern should be dumped on Bonds. He's matched a record, and (in my opinion) juicing helped. We live in a hypocritical culture, and a lot of subconscious tensions explode on those who transgress our fine little lines. Take as much caffeine as you wish, but juicing is out of bounds. Smoke tobacco, drink alcohol, and eat trans fat until you bankrupt Medicare, but touch a joint and you're going to jail. We sexualize our children with juvenile beauty pageants and then are shocked that our culture produces more than its share of pederasts.

We know that many of our lines are somewhat arbitrary and unprincipled, and this knowledge creates stress and anxiety. Is juicing cheating, or just enhancement of an athlete's natural prowess? We have not resolved that issue, and until we do it's arbitrary and capricious to take out our anxieties about it on Barry Bonds, no matter how big an a$$ he is.

You mean you're not siding with the NAACP, who's demanding fair treatment, etc. of Vick? Yet this same organization of hypocrisy tarred and feathered the Duke Lacrosse players from the get-go, when there was FAR less "evidence" against them than there has been and is against that scumbag Vick. Where's the NAACP now, huh? They and that opportunistic racist unRev. Jackson and Sharpton can go pound sand.

Vitamin Supplements
 

NFL banning steroids! What a joke.

Why is Barry Bonds associated with steroids use? Sports Illustrated wrote a 1980's article about the #1 baseball prospect in the nation. The kid from Florida had been "juicing" for 2 years in high school. Mentioned in the same article were Creatine and/or Andro. At the same time, the A's Bash Brothers were part of baseballs finest group of superstars. Anyone punish those guys? MLB front office didn't take any action on the kid either. He was the nation's top prospect, drafted number ONE, and paid alot of money to play the game. By the way, the kid was also a top college football prospect.

Of course you failed to mention that Barry doesn't play the next day game after a night game. He also missed almost the entire 2006 season. I'm willing to say Fisk played in more games and had more at bats. I'll also go on record that Fisk didn't walk near as much as Bonds.

I suppose you think Bonds just started drinking milk like those kids in those old commercials.

"Got flax seed?"

I just have to say something about this. First of all I have been a member of the NAACP for years. The NAACP has as much right at PETA or any other organization to speak out on the Vick situation. And it was also the local Atlanta chapter that had a press conference about a week ago and not the national organization. For your information Jackson and Sharpton have no direct affiliation with the NAACP and they run organizations completely different from the NAACP. And all the local NAACP wanted everyone to let the system play out before jumping to conclusions. Remember Atlanta is a largely African-American city and if the Falcons do anything with Vick that community might turn on them.

Secondly I always love how people can always find fault in certain people but not in others. The Duke case was not the only case in our country where players of a university were accused of something to only have the charges dropped. If the players were the football team and the composition of the players were from a poorer or more intercity background, those kids would have gone to trial at the very least and there would be no lawyer being disbarred. I know a lawyer that is the State's Attorney in my back yard over that was in charge during a murder case that were a conviction was over turned and the police and the lawyers were accused of some misconduct. Then this lawyer even ran for Governor and is still in his State's Attorney role today. I guess if you change the "players" then our outrage drastically changes.

Peace

Rut , however you validate your acceptance on ANY athlete, and possibly yourself ,to take performance enhancements is your perogative.

I have never had to convince myself or my body that it was necessary in ANY sport or atheletic event I participated in. IMO there is still a majority that feel the same way and will never accept those that do.

Just my opinion.

Fisk was a catcher. I seriously doubt that Fisk played every single day at his age. Actually I can pretty much guarantee that Fisk did not play every day at that time. He ended his career as a White Sox mostly so I can remember that his production had dropped off big time by the age of 40. As it relates to Bonds only in the last two seasons Bonds' schedule has been like this. After all Bonds' missed most of last season with a knee injury, he has been relatively healthy this season. But remember there has been testing for about 3 season and Bonds has never failed a steroids test. So we can assume all we like, but the only test he failed was for amphetamines which does not carry the same penalties and is largely accepted in the Major League community. Last time I checked the reason amphetamines have been a long used baseball drug and was even provided very openly but for some reason that is not "performance enhancing." And basically the affects are similar. Any drug that allows you to perform or feel "up to it" the next day after you are tired is just as performance enhancing as any other drug. All Steroids do is help you work out more and push the limit to lift more weights. Steroids do not make you hit the ball better or change your swing.

Peace

Amazing Blue Stuff
 

There is this animal product available through a local vetenarian or pet supply store that will help Barry play every day. The product is safe and effective and has been used after every major horse race event in the country. :rolleyes:

The human version was endorsed by a MLB veteran who plays tennis in retirement. His commercials ran on TV every night about 10 years ago. Athletic trainers have been known to use the product on their clients. Many people swear, "Its the balm." ;)

Most supplements or any drug is a performance enchancer whether we want to admit it or not. If I did not take Advil the next day after working too many games one day, I would not be able to work the next day. And I know I use that drug very few times as compared to many officials that use many other types of similar drugs to help them continue to officiate. I am in my mid-30s, the older someone gets the harder it is for them to typically recover from stressful physical activity.

I really do not know what that means. I was trying to find something that allowed me to not be in a lot of pain the next day after a hard workout. My position has nothing to do with turning the other cheek. Actually, I do not see why we think that individuals that train year-round and have million dollars at stake, are not just better athletes and better prepared. I hear people say "Hank did it the right way." Well what is the right way? So Hank likely most of his career had to get another job because he probably did not make a lot of money during most of his career to just play baseball. Players did not have access to video tape of every game like they do today. I just find it interesting that we want to assume someone cannot do something that players of a different time did. If Mickey Mantle did not spend most of his career womanizing and getting drunk every other day, he might have been able to last longer in his career. I am sure Mickey like other players could have broken these records if they took better care of themselves on a daily basis.

Peace

Jeff:

"Performance enhancing" is a specific category of drugs to which advil and asprin do not belong. It is not a general term that one can just apply to any drug or medication. Words have meanings and when they are used outside of their meanings it clouds communication.

The more I see of Barry's steriod bloated head and body, the more I am impressed with Babe Ruth who, according to him, hit some of his homers under the influence of a performance "inhibiting" drug: alcohol, which tends to slow reactions, confuse time, and blur vision.

he also did it on hot dogs

http://i10.tinypic.com/6bcjwwp.jpg

Garth,

The last time I checked how bloated you are usually is not a very good judge of someone using steroids. And if how bloated you look as a result of steroids, then we all need to admit to taking something because most officials I know are very bloated and do not look like they did 10 or 20 years ago. And I will say this again. Babe Ruth did not play against all of the day's best players either. Neither did many of the players we so revere.
;)

Peace

I couldn't care less if Bonds took roids or not.

I don't like him because he's a jerk.

Nike and Adidas don't sponsor him because of it, so he gets his gear from Fila. Fila is an Italian tennis wear company that was big in the 80's.

Do you see him doing commercials for anybody? No, because he's a dope. Who else put his own image on his sweatbands when he's in the minors?

Don't hate this guy because of what he may, of may not have shot into his butt. Hate him because he's a bad ambassador to baseball.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH) is another possible culprit in the ever-expanding hat size of one Barry Bonds.
I'll give you one good reason to dislike Bonds: Several years ago, when MLB players went on strike, he was a$$ enough to go to court to ask for his child support to be either suspended or reduced. How nice. You make God-knows-how much a year, but you can't support your children because you're on strike. 7-11 was hiring, Barry......

No one in the history of sports had the kind of years Barry had at a late age. All you need to do is look at the pictures from Barry when he was in Pittsburgh and then take a look at the ones when he was in SF.

We do not need actual proof. We need "beyond a reasonable doubt" and I think we can all say that "beyond a reasonable doubt" Barry took the juice.

It's not just Barry. Jason Giambi, Ken Camanitti won the MVP on the juice.

MLB and Bud need to take a "hit" for this. They turned their "eyes" away because baseball was on the "down side" after they cancelled the World Series and Sammy and Mark brought the fans back.

If you have kids while you might not actually catch them doing drugs, as a parent you know they are doing it. Their personality changes etc. When they come in the house you can see it in their eyes etc. The difference is you as a parent can have them tested and find out.

One does not need actual "proof" to know something is wrong.

MLB and the Players Union did nothing about steroids when they had the chance. It wasn't until MLB got embarassed on TV with their "weak" policy that Bud and MLB did something about it.

Here's my problem with Bud. It's time to put an end to this investigation, admit that MLB made a mistake and move forward just like football did when steroids were rampant in football.

FWIW if AROD stays healthy he will break Barry's record anyway.

Pete Booth

Don't ask, don't tell
 

Has anyone else been suspended or punished for buying steroids through U.S. pharmeceutical company records? Jason Grimsley, Gary Mathews, and many other professional athletes received banned substances through the mail. Some players were using false names and phony Dr. prescriptions; which in my book is far more reprehensible. All we know is that Jason went down and Gary was slapped on the wrist. With evidence from ONE multi-million dollar business alone, I guess steroid use only matters when records are broken and people take notice. Who's next?

It wouldn't have mattered if the Duke players were poor and black, because, now understand this--there was no evidence to support the charges brought by a rogue prosecutor who was hell bent on winning re-election. The whole thing was trumped up from the beginning.

And as far as race-baiting Sharpton, I've got two words for that: "Tawana Brawley."

When racism goes away, Sharpton and others like him will go away. If you do not want to hear for Sharpton anymore, then fix the problems this country has with issues of race instead of acting like everything is OK because slavery and Jim Crow are now over.

This will be my last talk in this thread about that topic. ;)

I would also like to make the point, that as far as I know not a single African-American said anything in this thread about race. So who is playing the "race-card" now? In all the things I saw last night, I did not hear of anyone talk about race at all. And since Bonds does not talk to the media, not sure when you mentioned this either.

Peace

You menton Mark McGuire like he didn't juice. It's funny that as you look at his stats he hits 70 & 65 and then the questions started - then his numbers drop back to the 30's and 20's. If it is ever proven Barry juiced then deal with it - until then? I'm not going to worry with it.

That would be Michael Irvin. The Cowboys play and practice in Irving.

Michael "that ain't my crack pipe" Irvin?;)

ive umpired with some guys who probably didnt look the same 10 or 20 years ago...but the bloat isnt in their heads and they dont currently wear an 8 5/8 size hat. if the average human head weighs 8 pounds, hes gotta be close to 13-14 pounds.

Did you see Kirby Puckett before he died? I think his head got larger and it was not steroids that did it. I would think there is a better way to know if someone is using a drug other than hat size.

Peace

Anderson is in jail because he refuses to talk to the grand jury. All he has to do to get out is answer their questions.

Now, then, if he can honestly say that he never provided steroids to Bonds, he would be a free man tomorrow. Yet he remains in jail.

God, not this tired, old argument again! :rolleyes:

So a black person is the only one who can bring up race as an issue? :confused: :rolleyes:

Agreed, Fay got thrown into the midst of things and he did one hell of a job. Remember it was Giammatti who commissioned Dr. Robert Adair to compile the "Physics of Baseball" which set aside tons of myths. I believe that Adair's books and works transformed baseball, how it is coached and viewed.

When was the last time we had an Owner as Commissioner? Landis, Mack, ?

You won't buy the proof either. Still defending OJ? If Bonds was white, you'd have thrown him into the hellfire years ago.
OK so let me get this straight. Bonds did not do sterioids (no proof) but just in case he did, they are not illegal.

:D :D

I'd go on but I'll just get out of your way while you rant like a drunken lunaic and make a fool of yourself.

Well, I'll mention it. And I'm not talking about Bonds, who I believe is a user. I'm talking about those like Rutledge who has lost all credibility with me (big deal!) because it just seems obvious that there is some unwritten law in a certain "community" that says you cant (or shouldnt) say anything negative, or side against one of similar race, no matter how guilty they look prior to trial.
I really dont care what color one is, if i think theyre guilty (yes OJ is!) so be it. McGuire is also and his HOF votes lean that way....
I was rooting for Aaron during his HR run, because I respected the man....I look forward to Arods HR run toward the end, which will put this whole "Bonds" thing behind, as an embarrassment for a great player, future HOFer, who made a wrong choice that history will always note.....and thats just a shame, isnt it?

It is considering he had enough talent to break the record on his own. It's like being a millionaire and robbing a bank.

Aaron had to put up with extreme racist sh$$. Unbelievable character, if he had a personality, no telling........

You obviously did not read anything I said about McGuire. He is white right? I think McGuire is a hall of famer. I think McGuire broke the single hitting record with a legal substance. I think McGuire is only singled out because he was mentioned in a book by someone that had an ax to grind. Also there has been more than one white player in the Majors and in the Minors that have tested positive for steroids (not assumed steroids, actually substances). My position is the same for all of them. If Major League Baseball wanted a policy of steroids 10 years ago, they had evidence to put one in. It is only when the precious Babe Ruth was being passed that anyone started to give a damn. You cannot turn back the clock now and start talking about fake science that does not even apply. All I know is that someone that has been tested for the last 3 years has come clean every single time. And if Bonds was taking a substance, why is he getting away with it and how is he continuing to hit home runs? I want more evidence other than "His hat size is bigger, that is the proof we are looking for."

I learned long time ago never to say what someone did not do or has not done. I have no idea what someone took that I do not personally know and that I was not around them 24/7. I just want some proof other than hat sizes and waist lines. I know there is not a parent here that can honestly say what their kid has never done or will never do. So how can any of us here say what someone did based on some very shady evidence.

BTW, OJ was found not guilty. Get over it already. :eek:


For the record I think you have been put on the ignore list by just about every respected umpire on this site. I might not be the most popular guy, but it is clear people can read my posts because they respond to them. Even those posters that have had some of the biggest, knock down, drag out fights with me long before you got here have not done that to me. So I would be careful who you are calling a fool. Most of your posts people are calling you names (if you are not on the ignore lists of the others). Whether most agree with me or not, most people seemed to have some respect for what I have to say even if they completely disagree most of my positions.

Peace

Actually I welcome the talks about race. I just find it funny when someone other than a white male brings up race on any level; we are playing the race card.

Peace

Celebrity Crime
 

What if Greg Anderson were a criminal defense lawyer, a TV minister or a Washington journalist? I could care less for informants because so many testify in exchange for immunity. Anderson has a right not to implicate himself any further. He is honestly serving more time after already serving some time. People cried foul when Paris Hilton was ordered to remain in jail after 4 days. Free Greg Anderson!

How can any testimony after time served in jail be "honestly" used? For example, the NBA comissioner stated a referee was reprimanded for gambling allegations in 2005. I guess that wasn't enough for the NBA. Rather than flip-flop; MLB has decided to indefinitely remain silent on any ruling over the Barry Bond's controversy. Why risk double the financial jeopardy Barry has generated while breaking the home run record? The MLB generated media coverage certainly profits from reporting any news.

Some folks believe million dollar athletes convicted of dealing steroids or illegal gambling should go to jail. Gee, the real criminals are tickled to death now. Last time I checked, I'm living in a very dangerous city. I wish ESPN would donate some valuable police resources towards fighting serious neighborhood crime in cities across the country. Crimes that actually mean something to the average Joe. PETA and vegetarians get no sympathy from me.

Got it, thanks.

:D :D

Then we agree. Bonds, McGuire, all of them are lying, cheating scumbags. So what is your point? I don't see you endlessly defending the McGuire scumbag, only the Bonds scumbag. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Sorry to see you're not respected. :D :D

When you learn basic reading skills, come and talk to me. :confused:


This conversation was started about Bonds. I was the person that brought up anything about McGuire. I said that "Andro" was legal and it still is from my understanding. If we want to get technical steroids is also a legal substance with a prescription. You just cannot sell it without a prescription. I know people that take them every day for many common conditions. But if you play in the NFL (and you do not inform the league) or you are an Olympic Athlete you cannot use them. Ask anyone that has asthma. I guess that has something to do with OJ too? :rolleyes:

Peace

He did not say he put me on the ignore list and he is not a long time respected poster. How many times this month have people said you were on their ignore list? I lost track. :rolleyes:

Peace

Like marijuana, OK keep going, this is fun.......
Uh, ok, sure, I caught that train (wreck) of thought. :eek:

Whoa, Ignorance or Fear?
 

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Neither of you will reach an agreement. I will be happy if FITUMP56 deletes his offensive post or apologizes for his error in judgment. Otherwise, I have no choice but to ask the moderator to step in and delete it.

Fitump56, not only are your comments wrong, they, by themselves, are offensive to any and all races or people of color. There is a difference. Not all white or black clans share single lines of ancestry. I will not get into a discussion on the slavery market as it exists today. I truly am happy to know that the majority of white people do NOT share your wild fantasy. BOO.