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mattmets Tue Jul 31, 2007 06:46pm

Important lessons learned....and more questions asked
 
Saturday I had a Sr. Babe Ruth (16-18) game, working by myself. It was raining all day, finally in the bottom of the 6th, with the score tied, the rains come. So the game is suspended, continued tonight, once again I have it alone (don't ask why).

This game is played on a field with no lines drawn past first base (this will be important) Top 7, after an error and a walk, Home coach decides to IBB the 8 hitter to get to the 9 hitter, who is 2-3 and tied the game in the 6th. So bases loaded, 1 out, and I'm by myself. Next batter lofts a fly ball down the right field line. So in my head, here's what I'm keeping track of- Fair/foul, catch/no catch, proper tags, runners touching bases, potential time play, not getting hit with a throw, and keeping my *** out of trouble. Well of course, ball falls. F3 is standing on the bag, so I have to scoot a step or two inside the line to have any view at all, while staying to call anything in the infield. Since there's no line, I have to make a snap judgment, I call it fair.

IT hits the fan. While the ball is LIVE, runners circling bases, players running around screaming, coaches screaming....it's ugly. So finally, after 3 runs score and BR is on third, Home coach comes running out of the third base dugout. This guy talks in a loud voice anyway, but he's not happy with me. I give him the stop sign and say coach, if you're going to yell at me, I'm going to run you. We can talk, but you will not stand here and yell at me. He goes off that I can't run him if he doesn't curse....anyway, he's arguing, and while he's arguing he bumps me- not sure if it's intentional, but doesn't matter. GONE. No doubter. So he goes crazy, his assistants are yelling, but he finally leaves. I tell his assistants he was ejected for making contact with me, not for arguing. Stupidly, I ask who's now in charge and if he wants to discuss it. I discuss the play with this coach for 2-3 minutes, not arguing, not cursing, just discussing it. We end it, move on, Home team ends up losing as the last batter strikes out on two pitches near his nose.

SO, my questions:
1) Were my mechanics right at all on this play? I feel like they were very wrong, but being by myself with the bases loaded, what was I supposed to do?

2) In handling the argument, other than volunteering to talk to the new head coach, how did I do?

3) In general, what did I do wrong here? What things did I do right?

ANY feedback is appreciated, since this is near the end of my season and I'm figuring out what I need to do better next year.

Don Mueller Tue Jul 31, 2007 07:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
So bases loaded, 1 out, and I'm by myself. Next batter lofts a fly ball down the right field line. So in my head, here's what I'm keeping track of- Fair/foul, catch/no catch, proper tags, runners touching bases, potential time play, not getting hit with a throw, and keeping my *** out of trouble.


You have to simplify when you're by yourself. One thing at a time.
Catch/no catch and fair foul is first priority.

Since BR ended up at 3rd I'm assuming ball got past F9, that gives you plenty of time to get back to 3BL and determine if a play is coming to 3rd or home.
You can only do so much so I try to watch touches at 3rd and home and peripherally watch for obstruction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
Well of course, ball falls. F3 is standing on the bag, so I have to scoot a step or two inside the line to have any view at all, while staying to call anything in the infield.

You do what you have to, to get a good look. Good job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
Since there's no line, I have to make a snap judgment, I call it fair.

IT hits the fan. While the ball is LIVE, runners circling bases, players running around screaming, coaches screaming....it's ugly. .

It seems you're making it out to be much more chaotic than it is. It's a base hit and runners are moving. That's baseball. You've made your call, now you're simply watching and anticipating the next play. You shouldn't be paying any attention to players and coaches "screaming" during live ball.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
So finally, after 3 runs score and BR is on third, Home coach comes running out of the third base dugout.

I'm assuming you have TIME, so still everything is cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
This guy talks in a loud voice anyway, but he's not happy with me. I give him the stop sign and say coach, if you're going to yell at me, I'm going to run you. We can talk, but you will not stand here and yell at me. He goes off that I can't run him if he doesn't curse....anyway, he's arguing, and while he's arguing he bumps me- not sure if it's intentional, but doesn't matter. GONE. No doubter.

Home team manager is the one responsible for you doing one man in first place?
Very very little patience.
I hope you made it very clear to everyone that he was booted.
Good job.

In my world when he says "He goes off that I can't run him if he doesn't curse.."
I say "watch this"

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
So he goes crazy, his assistants are yelling,

If the assistants are yelling at you they're gone.
Why would you warn the HC about yelling and then allow it from the assistants?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
but he finally leaves. I tell his assistants he was ejected for making contact with me, not for arguing.

You owe the assistants no explanation, and personally I wouldn't give any.
By saying "not for arguing" you have given permission for more arguing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
Stupidly, I ask who's now in charge and if he wants to discuss it.

Discussions are over. As you figured out they should have been.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
I discuss the play with this coach for 2-3 minutes, not arguing, not cursing, just discussing it.

30-45 sec. max with the HC zero at this point with new HC. 2-3 minutes is out of control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
We end it, move on, Home team ends up losing as the last batter strikes out on two pitches near his nose.

Called or swinging?

aceholleran Tue Jul 31, 2007 07:54pm

Any one-man job is tough.

I thought you did well in positioning--then you called what you saw.

My only cavil is the 2-3 minute discussion with new head coach. What is there to explain on this play? Fair ball, no catch, runners advanced.

How did you know that the 9-slot hitter was 2 for 3? IMHO, keepoing track of anything like this takes away from focusing on umpiring.

I have run more than a few coaches who argued with me without cursing. Remember the three P's: profane, prolonged or personal.

Hang in there. My season is over too. We are going to have a pizza-and-beer "round table" and share stuff we have gleaned during our seasons. I think this is a good idea.

Ace in CT

mattmets Tue Jul 31, 2007 07:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Mueller
I'm assuming you have TIME, so still everything is cool.

Coach was out while his catcher was retrieving the ball at the backstop. Time wasn't out until F2 had the ball.


Quote:

If the assistants are yelling at you they're gone.
Why would you warn the HC about yelling and then allow it from the assistants?
To be honest with you, I couldn't have controlled the HC and Assts. at the same time. I was more worried about the HC in my face than the assts. in the dugout.

Quote:

Called or swinging?
Last K was swinging. There was no way these pitches were strikes in any game.

mattmets Tue Jul 31, 2007 07:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceholleran
My only cavil is the 2-3 minute discussion with new head coach. What is there to explain on this play? Fair ball, no catch, runners advanced.

This is the thing that I thought of as I was talking to him..."why am I doing this....it's an absolutely awful idea." Definitely took this away from the game for future reference....

Quote:

How did you know that the 9-slot hitter was 2 for 3? IMHO, keepoing track of anything like this takes away from focusing on umpiring.
I don't know if he was 2-3, but I remember thinking the kid seemed small for the league on Saturday, then he hit 2 balls about 350 feet and was on base a few times.

njdevs00cup Tue Jul 31, 2007 08:25pm

I do many games by myself too, so I sympathize. One thing I always do is point out during the pre-game is the fact that there are no lines. The best advice I've recieved when working by games myself is to hustle! It shows that despite the fact you've got a tough gig, you want to get it right. Sometimes the fact that you got out from behind the plate and were on top of a call earlier in the game, will keep the coach off your back!

DG Tue Jul 31, 2007 08:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
So in my head, here's what I'm keeping track of- Fair/foul, catch/no catch, proper tags, runners touching bases, potential time play, not getting hit with a throw, and keeping my *** out of trouble.

I rarely work by myself, but if given this situation there would be only two things on my mind. FAIR/FOUL and CATCH/NO CATCH. You can only do so much with one umpire.

If HC comes out let him rant until he says something personal or profane or he bumps you, then run him. What were the assistants yelling? Personal or profane yelling should be instantaneous ejections. Pretty soon you will be left with no coaches or ONE who has some sense not to yell personal or profane at you and be willing to discuss calmly. If not, then so be it.

The calmer you are the easier the ejection report will be to write, assuming you have to write one for summer ball.

What do you mean by batter strikes out with two pitches near his nose? Were these called or swinging? If called you might want to lower your zone about a foot, at least.

mattmets Tue Jul 31, 2007 09:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG
If HC comes out let him rant until he says something personal or profane or he bumps you, then run him. What were the assistants yelling? Personal or profane yelling should be instantaneous ejections....

What do you mean by batter strikes out with two pitches near his nose? Were these called or swinging? If called you might want to lower your zone about a foot, at least.

The assistants were just yapping about the call..."That ball was five feet foul, there's no way that was a fair ball...." I didn't hear anything that would warrant my tossing someone from the bench.

The last out of the game was 2 ugly swings by the kid that was up. I have no idea why he swung at the pitches- the game didn't matter for the Sr. Babe Ruth tournament, so I think everyone just wanted to get the hell out of Dodge at that point.

DG Tue Jul 31, 2007 09:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
The assistants were just yapping about the call..."That ball was five feet foul, there's no way that was a fair ball...." I didn't hear anything that would warrant my tossing someone from the bench.

Ignore 'em.

fitump56 Tue Jul 31, 2007 09:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
he's arguing, and while he's arguing he bumps me

Games over.

Once you have that in your head, then the only thing left to manage is your exit. Think of it this way. You have extricated yourself from a pitiful sitch. Without the foul lines marked, it was inevitable that somebody was going to go ballistic. You were a marked man.

How to exit? Relax, you know the game is over, so concentrate on a clean exit. Let the coaches scream and yell, whatever, nod your head up and down, agree, relax. Listen until everyone has had their say. When the brouhaha ends and it will, find your car in your head, slowly walk over to the other teams dugout, inform them of the forfeit, exit by their side of the field. I have asked for a coach or two to assist in following me to my car. Several have stayed around until all we are safe.

SanDiegoSteve Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:29pm

Matt,

This is what I do in games where there are no foul lines, especially if I'm working solo:

Pre-game plate conference:

Me: Okay fellas, today I am by myself. Your league has decided that one umpire is enough, so that's the way it's going to be. You do not have foul lines drawn (many times I have NO foul lines whatsoever) past first base, so whatever I call is what it's going to be. I will have no argument of fair or foul on balls hit past 1st and 3rd. I'm not entertaining arguments on safe/out calls on stolen bases. I'm going to give it my best look, and if the ball beats the runner and a tag is down, that runner is going to be out. Any questions?

Them: No sir, Mr. Umpire. . . . .:rolleyes:

then they argue and whine anyway, and I immediately remind them that if they want it called differently to pay for 2 umpires (or chalk the field, whichever is applicable). After this one reminder, I start ejecting.

I also don't invite the new head honcho to further discuss anything.:)

mattmets Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:31pm

The irony is on Sunday, the assistant told me the other guys were being too hard on me since I was working by myself. Then today he proved that once a rat, always a rat.

Seems like everyone else agrees that discussing with the new head coach was probably the worst decision I've made on the field in a while. Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

fitump56 Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Matt,

This is what I do in games where there are no foul lines, especially if I'm working solo:

Pre-game plate conference:

Me: Okay fellas, today I am by myself. Your league has decided that one umpire is enough, so that's the way it's going to be. You do not have foul lines drawn (many times I have NO foul lines whatsoever) past first base, so whatever I call is what it's going to be. I will have no argument of fair or foul on balls hit past 1st and 3rd. I'm not entertaining arguments on safe/out calls on stolen bases. I'm going to give it my best look, and if the ball beats the runner and a tag is down, that runner is going to be out. Any questions?

Never, ever say "any questions". You have made the rules, move on. If they want a clarification, let them come forward. :mad:

mattmets Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitump56
Never, ever say "any questions". You have made the rules, move on. If they want a clarification, let them come forward. :mad:

I would bring it up pre-game....get everything done early and get it over with. There is no worse time to bring up a quirky rule or a stupid coach comment then in the heat of a close game. Discuss it pre-game, establish whatever it is you need to establish, and let them adjust accordingly.

SanDiegoSteve Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:41pm

Fitty, I allow questions during the plate conference. What, do you try to be a bada$$ and not let them ask questions? There is nothing wrong with asking "any questions?" I want them to be crystal clear on what I will and will not put up with.

GarthB Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Fitty, I allow questions during the plate conference. What, do you try to be a bada$$ and not let them ask questions? There is nothing wrong with asking "any questions?" I want them to be crystal clear on what I will and will not put up with.


Pregame:

Introduction
Exchange line-ups
Ground rules
Have a good game.

fitump56 Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:59pm

Originally Posted by fitump56
Never, ever say "any questions". You have made the rules, move on. If they want a clarification, let them come forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
I would bring it up pre-game....get everything done early and get it over with. There is no worse time to bring up a quirky rule or a stupid coach comment then in the heat of a close game. Discuss it pre-game, establish whatever it is you need to establish, and let them adjust accordingly.

Agreed. But don't end the conversation asking for more conversation. If you ask for questions, you can get a thousand of them. If you have been clear and consise in this sitch to wit:

"Coaches, we do not have foul lines our calls stands with no tolerance for questioning. (insert the remainder of your pre-game)."

"(wrapping up)" ....Coaches, are you ready to play? (here they have a full opportunity to ask whatever they want).....pause... "Let's play, best of luck to both of you!"

Keep it simple.

fitump56 Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Fitty, I allow questions during the plate conference.

So do I.

Quote:

What, do you try to be a bada$$ and not let them ask questions?
I have no idea what you are blathering on about.

Quote:

There is nothing wrong with asking "any questions?" I want them to be crystal clear on what I will and will not put up with.
If you have told them, which is in this case fair/fouls with no lines, and your answer is no tolerance, what is it you want them to ask about?

fitump56 Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:26am

I called a summer (30+ games) as a one man HS ball, one field. Because of a precise pre-game (for the Visiting Coach mainly), I had only two problems, same Coach twice. Both times it was R1/R3, R1 steal and throw.

"Blue, he missed the tag!!"
Coach, I don't doubt he did."
What are you gong to do then"
"Nothing, what part of the pre-game did you not understand regarding tolerance?"
But that was easy to see."

(Ignore)
"Blue, that was easy to see!"

(Time) "F2, go tell your Coach that will be his last comment for the game but go to F1 first and tell him why you are going over to Coach"

F1 does, Coach calls Time, "Blue, that was an easy call.......

"Game suspended."

Going over to HC, "we will replay when HC is ready to accept a one man ump. Game clock is live." Off to the parking lot, clock ticks.

SanDiegoSteve Wed Aug 01, 2007 01:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
Pregame:

Introduction
Exchange line-ups
Ground rules
Have a good game.

Yeah, that's great when you have two or more umpires, and have baselines drawn on the ground. You know, all the games you work.

I could even do without the "have a good game" when working a "normal" baseball game. Your plate conference sounds about right.

But I have found that when working alone (through much trial and error), if you don't establish the "no arguing plays 128' 3-3/8" away" before the game, that the coaches think they can just unload on you free-reign on every single steal of 2nd base.

Here in the summer, the high school Varsity and JV come together and play a little baseball called "Coaches Summer League." It is loosey-goosey, swing-the-bat, in-and-out baseball, usually with a time limit for the first of a twin-bill. More often than not, there are no foul lines whatsoever. Not even a trace of lime to be found. It is important to point out to these guys not to utter one syllable about fair or foul during the entire game. If you don't, they will be sure to want it called completely accurately as if there were lines.

GarthB Wed Aug 01, 2007 01:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Yeah, that's great when you have two or more umpires, and have baselines drawn on the ground. You know, all the games you work.

I could even do without the "have a good game" when working a "normal" baseball game. Your plate conference sounds about right.

But I have found that when working alone (through much trial and error), if you don't establish the "no arguing plays 128' 3-3/8" away" before the game, that the coaches think they can just unload on you free-reign on every single steal of 2nd base.

Here in the summer, the high school Varsity and JV come together and play a little baseball called "Coaches Summer League." It is loosey-goosey, swing-the-bat, in-and-out baseball, usually with a time limit for the first of a twin-bill. More often than not, there are no foul lines whatsoever. Not even a trace of lime to be found. It is important to point out to these guys not to utter one syllable about fair or foul during the entire game. If you don't, they will be sure to want it called completely accurately as if there were lines.

I have a perfect record of having coaches who are not blind and can see whether or not foul lines are drawn. Most often, the home coach comments on that as he "takes us around."

I never start a game with negatives, threats or warnings. I have found that often and unnecessarily creates a problem of its own.

If something comes up, I handle it.

SanDiegoSteve Wed Aug 01, 2007 04:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
I have a perfect record of having coaches who are not blind and can see whether or not foul lines are drawn. Most often, the home coach comments on that as he "takes us around."

"Takes us around."

Exactly.

How many solo games do you average per season?

Working solo is a whole different game. You are on an island encircled by sharks without a Gilligan to be your little buddy.

And BTW, working an occasional game solo because a partner didn't show doesn't count.

I'm not saying that every single time you need to give the same kind of speech, but there are some grown up, shaving age coaches who will argue fair/foul calls on their own fields that they did not bother to line. And they usually neglect to mention that there are no lines at the plate conference, not go out of their way to bring it up.

These same coaches, and again, I'm not saying all, but I know which ones are which, will argue close steal plays at 2nd base, knowing full well that you are trying to keep from looking up 3 sets of butts at a play that is over 120 feet away. If these folks want this play called accurately, they should spring for an extra umpire to stand nearby to call it that way.

JMO, YMMV, LSMFT-sold American.

bob jenkins Wed Aug 01, 2007 07:48am

FWIW, I agree with Garth on the pre-game -- do not indicate that there might be problems. Just have the same meeting you'd otherwise have and get on with the game. We don't have the "there are only two umpires, not 3 or 4 or 6 so we might miss something" speech, so why have it when there's one umpire?

I disagree with FitUmp's decision to forfeit the game because of a bump.

I think MattMets did reasonably well in the original play.

aceholleran Wed Aug 01, 2007 08:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
Pregame:

Introduction
Exchange line-ups
Ground rules
Have a good game.

Amen. Here's what I hate from an ump during pregame: "Well, there's a gap in the fence down the line where the gate stands; if the ball goes through, we'll play book rule."

My usual pregame: "Nine in the field, one at bat. Let's go."


Ace

PeteBooth Wed Aug 01, 2007 09:08am

[QUOTE]
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmets
Saturday I had a Sr. Babe Ruth (16-18) game, working by myself. So the game is suspended, continued tonight, once again I have it alone (don't ask why).

Here's your answer as to why you were working alone

He goes off that I can't run him if he doesn't curse....anyway, he's arguing, and while he's arguing he bumps me- not sure if it's intentional, but doesn't matter.

People for the most part do not change behaviors. Other umpires were probably sick of this guy.


Quote:

This game is played on a field with no lines drawn past first base (this will be important)
The best you can do is have a "land mark' for yourself ie a tree, fence etc. You do the best you can

Quote:

Next batter lofts a fly ball down the right field line. So in my head, here's what I'm keeping track of- Fair/foul, catch/no catch, proper tags, runners touching bases, potential time play, not getting hit with a throw, and keeping my *** out of trouble.
When working solo here's the order

1. Call the Pitch
2. Fair / Foul
3. catch / No catch
4. Get into the "working area"

Do not worry about runners touching bases because it's virtually impossible when working solo. Some things have to "give' and that's one of the areas.


Quote:

I tell his assistants he was ejected for making contact with me, not for arguing. Stupidly, I ask who's now in charge and if he wants to discuss it.
You do not need to explain yourself to the assistant. Also, no need to explain your call to the assistant unless when he "takes over" he asks you. Do not "volunteer" anything.

Did you write up a report and send the report to the President of this league and your assignor about the bumping incident? IMO this should not be taken lightly.

Side Note: Be careful about accepting Rec league assignments where there is virtually no control and the Presidents or Boards are "soft". That's probably why you were working this game SOLO in the first place.

Pete Booth

UmpLarryJohnson Wed Aug 01, 2007 09:45am

if there are NO foul lines passed the bases i see no prob making sure the rats note that and that theres gonna be no crap taken on fair--foulcalls down the lines..if the RATS think thatsa issue then call the feild unfit for play and go home!

SanDiegoSteve Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson
if there are NO foul lines passed the bases i see no prob making sure the rats note that and that theres gonna be no crap taken on fair--foulcalls down the lines..if the RATS think thatsa issue then call the feild unfit for play and go home!

Amen. My sentiments exactly.

Imagine having no foul lines whatsoever. You are having to guess by lining up where the ball is in relation to the edge of the base. Real accurate. It happens during off-season games, yet they still b*tch and complain about close calls near where the line should have been.

In a perfect world, under ideal circumstances, nothing needs to be said during a plate conference. But there are times where you dang sure better say something, or you will be in for a long day.

Publius Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
But I have found that when working alone (through much trial and error), if you don't establish the "no arguing plays 128' 3-3/8" away" before the game, that the coaches think they can just unload on you free-reign on every single steal of 2nd base.
.


Have the home team reposition 2nd base properly before the next game. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceholleran
Here's what I hate from an ump during pregame: "Well, there's a gap in the fence down the line where the gate stands; if the ball goes through, we'll play book rule."

I use the part after the semicolon frequently. It's a response to the coach who, when "taking us around", starts to point out all eleven holes in the fence. After he points out number two, I interrupt, "Anything leaving the field, we'll...."

ozzy6900 Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:11am

Addendum to my normal rant about plate meetings.

The lack of proper field lines needs to be addressed. This is handled by you and your partner taking a stroll to the field before the game and getting a bead on things. My partner & I will determine an object to line up with the outside edge of 1st & 3rd base. This will take care of us calling the fair & foul.

Now when the plate meeting rolls around, I simply let the managers know how we are lining up everything. This lets them realize that we are aware there are no lines but have made a plan to compensate. I then tell them, "Gentlemen, due to the lack of proper field preparation, my partner and I will be as accurate as we possibly can. Please assist us by allowing us and only us to make the call." Total additional time = 15 seconds bringing the total plate meeting to about 1 minute even.

I work many fields that are not properly marked in the early Spring and during the Fall seasons. I rarely have any problem because we are honest with the managers. Also by showing them that we have objects that we use to help with our decisions, it shows them that we are trying to do a proper job.

Regards

SanDiegoSteve Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius
Have the home team reposition 2nd base properly before the next game. ;)

Well, I'm at least a foot behind the plate when making the call.

I guess I put my "foot" in it again.:o


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