It's All About The Money

[archangel]

I guess I just dont understand the OP. 40yrs in and he's saying what? I have 7yrs as a BB, FB, and basketball official, and the money is useful, but when I'm on the field/court, $ never enters my mind. I'd like to think I'm focused on the game, and an added benefit is putting all other life/work issues aside for a few hours. That break refreshes me.
I could be wrong, but all things come to an end, maybe that time is now, for some....

[PeteBooth]

What I find completely objectionable is this facade, this ridiculous dishonesty about the money, and its influence on all of us.

It's not about dishonesty but about survival.

Even the BIG BOYS are told how the PLAYERS want the game called.

Case an point:

Many years ago, the ML umpires were intsructed to call balks in line with the book definition. During that 1/2 season there were more balks called then the entire previous season.

The Players union got involved and things went back to the "old way"

Jim Porter is "right-on" when he says the game is not about us. It's for the participants.

Also, the reason the EXPECTED call exists is not because of money but because of the Tradition in baseball.

I'll admit at times especially in a terrible game I am there for the money. Equipment, gas and acessories cost money but as rei said if all I did was umpire I'd be bankrupt and lawump would have all kinds of business.

The past discussion is about one's preference. It's not a Right or Wrong philosophy. I'm in Jim's camp especially since the majority of my work is 2 person.

There are "smitty's" as Jim mentioned and they do not have a care in the world. They show up and get paid and you know what, they have as much work as anybody unless you live in an area where there is an abundance of umpires.

Also IMO, you cannot compare MLB to what we do. I do think Instant replay has changed the way the game is called at that level. It seems every close play is replayed over and over again.

Pete Booth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fitump56

I have been a sports official for over 40 years. A very, very low percentage of that time did I not either enjoy or need the money.

Old Hats on the Forum won't admit to the fact that they need, want, desire and require the money. Or the fact that it clouds their judgments.

First of all, if something is all about money, then I will work games that will pay me the most. So I will not work a varsity game because I can work a youth game for more money and similar time spent. I also would not have to travel as far.

Originally Posted by fitump56

So we see posts where R is actually "Out" but called "Safe". Why? Because that's what the people who control their pay saw.

Can you quote someone who actually said that? I have never read anyone suggest such a thing.

Originally Posted by fitump56

I don't find completely objectionable these compromises that a sport official might truly need to keep his nose clean and his job status upright, to keep his assignments, to keep his money inflow.

What I find completely objectionable is this facade, this ridiculous dishonesty about the money, and its influence on all of us.

Once again can you quote anyone that suggested such a thing? Give names, places and times when people said these things. I bet you will not find any, because no one has said those things.

Originally Posted by fitump56

Until we can have honest discussions about the influence of the money, how it influences us, our officiating preferences....then what we have is nothing more than conversations among participants that refuse to admit to the underlying realities of beng a modern day sports official.

And needing the money.

Are you sure you want to have an honest discussion? I have ran into umpires and officials that would rather work only for the money and they give a damn how they look, how they present themselves and how they call the game. They will cut corners to just get the game over with. I believe the money is a part of what I do, because it cost money to drive an hour to a game and it cost money to buy uniforms and equipment items. I could not maintain my stuff if I did not get any money for it at all. Also the money for many people helps give money to the family for things like college tuition and family vacations or renovations on a house. Officiating is a service. When you provide a service you should be compensated for that service.

Peace

[lawump]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

While I still have to pay for college for my two young sons, I have to agree, umpiring is a hobby (passion)! I cannot think of a more enjoyable way (legal and legit) to make $$$. I've never not looked forward to a game. I'll know when I get the same feeling I get when I'm going to work, that it's time stop!

I understand! Hell, I sure could use the money when I was umpiring while in College and while struggling just out of College!

My post was to point out the fallacy in FitUmp56's initial post which (to summarize) stated:

"most (if not all) umpires umpire because they need the money (whether they know it or not; whether they admit it or not). Because they need the money, it influences their calls. This has led to some umps intentionally (and wrongly) calling "safe" runners "out"."

To point out the fallacy I have showed (by my first post in this thread and by my other posts in another thread) the following:

(1) I am one of those umpires on the other thread who discussed (and supported) the concept of giving the expected call (i.e. calling a runner "out" even though he may technically be "safe"...I even gave a specific example of such a play in the other thread).

(2) I do not umpire for money.

Thus, FitUmp56 is a LIAR if he for a moment suggests that MY use of "the exepected call mechanic" is because my calls are influenced by my desire for money.

FitUmp56 can't come to terms with the fact that the "expected call" mechanic is taught by MLB and MiLB umps at umpire school and at the PBUC camp. He can't come to terms with the fact that this is a valid, practiced advanced mechanic that has NO basis in placating fans and/or trying to take an easy path because the umpire is afraid of confrontation.

Due to his inability to grasp these facts, he has proposed a theory (a "hypothesis") to justify the existence of umpires who don't umpire as he does. That hypothesis is that they must be influenced by money (consciously or subconsciously). I have debunked Fitump56's hypothesis in that (1) I don't umpire for money and (2) I use the expected call mechanic.

With all due respect to Tim C:

The OP in this thread is not TIED for the dumbest post in the history of the internet. Rather, it sits alone all by itself at the top.

The OP is an insult to 95% (I admit 5% of the membership cares MOST about money) of the members of my association who spend hours studying rules, mechanics and other issues and work their arses off to become excellent umpires because they love the game and the avocation.

[BigUmp56]

I think lost in Fitump's assertion that all umpires are in it for the money are the thousands of umpires who volunteer their services to LL. Combine that with the fact that there are many more who work only youth games in other organizations for very little money should prove his assertion to be untrue. If I were in it for the money I'd certainly never work another LL game again in the district in which I reside. I continue to work LL games along with the rest of the leagues I work because it's where I started and I've built relationships over the years with so many wonderful people. Even though we're not paid in this district I enjoy seeing these people and continuing to be a part of the LL experience for so many young baseball players. I guess I'm just a sap to believe I have to be paid every time I step onto a diamond to work a game.


Tim.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by lawump

The OP is an insult

Ahhhh. Thank God for the ignore feature. I like it when I don't know that I've been insulted.

[lawump]

This one's for you Garth:

Originally Posted by fitump56

I have been a sports official for over 40 years. A very, very low percentage of that time did I not either enjoy or need the money.

Old Hats on the Forum won't admit to the fact that they need, want, desire and require the money. Or the fact that it clouds their judgments.

So we see posts where R is actually "Out" but called "Safe". Why? Because that's what the people who control their pay saw.

I don't find completely objectionable these compromises that a sport official might truly need to keep his nose clean and his job status upright, to keep his assignments, to keep his money inflow.

What I find completely objectionable is this facade, this ridiculous dishonesty about the money, and its influence on all of us.

Until we can have honest discussions about the influence of the money, how it influences us, our officiating preferences....then what we have is nothing more than conversations among participants that refuse to admit to the underlying realities of beng a modern day sports official.

And needing the money.

Sorry, I shouldn't have done that.

[sri8527]

why oh why do you respond to fitump, been hit by dozens of batted balls, hit, in the back of the head, by a thrown ball, i use the money to take a trip with my wife each and every fall because i WORK x amount of games in the summer. as i have heard many times before, when someone tries so hard too tell you it is not about the money, you can bet it is all about the money, fitump, enjoy your little dream world, i believe your all about the money.

steve

[Rcichon]

Another to add to the ignore list.......


You just can't fix stupid.

[Arnold A.]

I do not work games for free.

Umpiring is an avocation I enjoy. It is one that I have spent countless hours and much cash on to try and become better at.

No call I made/make has ever had the cash component built into it.

I believe we all in some degree umpire for the money. That is not a bad thing, nor does it make the person(s) who pursue umpiring for this reason bad people or bad umpires.



P.S. It is very difficult to ignore havingafitump if you keep quoting his drivel.

[BoomerSooner]

I'm going to take a little different stance and say that for me the calls on the field are made considering the money aspect. But in a little different way that what fitump is suggesting. Every call I make on the field is governed by what I think is right and in accordance with the rules. I have learned that this is the only way to advance within the eyes of my assignor and fellow umpires. I want to get more games to make more money (so that after after covering my fixed costs i.e. equipment, uniforms, etc. I can turn a greater profit and do something I love).

As has been said umpiring is a service, and as someone that works in a service field (the medical field) as my full-time vocation, I understand that doing a good job, making sure patients are satified, and working ethically leads to better opportunities (more money). Am I going to go against what I know is right to do something I think the person that controls my wages and hours would want me to do? NO...because they would want me to do what is right, and I think the same thing applies to assignors and league administrators, etc. They want us to make the right call, they want us to be objective and apply the rules fairly. As such I allow money (and my integrity, love for the game, and many other reasons) to motivate me to make the right call because in the end that's what the big chiefs want.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I'm going to take a little different stance and say that for me the calls on the field are made considering the money aspect. But in a little different way that what fitump is suggesting. Every call I make on the field is governed by what I think is right and in accordance with the rules. I have learned that this is the only way to advance within the eyes of my assignor and fellow umpires. I want to get more games to make more money (so that after after covering my fixed costs i.e. equipment, uniforms, etc. I can turn a greater profit and do something I love).

If this approach is working for you, you're fortunate. Too many ump orgs are designed around keeping the hub-bub to a minimum. Congrats on your org and its ability to promote for all the right reasons.

As has been said umpiring is a service, and as someone that works in a service field (the medical field) as my full-time vocation, I understand that doing a good job, making sure patients are satified, and working ethically leads to better opportunities (more money). Am I going to go against what I know is right to do something I think the person that controls my wages and hours would want me to do? NO...because they would want me to do what is right, and I think the same thing applies to assignors and league administrators, etc. They want us to make the right call, they want us to be objective and apply the rules fairly. As such I allow money (and my integrity, love for the game, and many other reasons) to motivate me to make the right call because in the end that's what the big chiefs want.

"Officiating is a service but that does not mean we are servants or subservient." Found this in the FO.com archives. I'm stealing it.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I think lost in Fitump's assertion that all umpires are in it for the money are the thousands of umpires who volunteer their services to LL.

No, I was only addressing those that have money as their incentive. Which is why the Subject is:

It's All About The Money

Now, as you know, there are other things than direct cash that LL umpires work for. No registration fees for their sons and daughters, free gear, other non taxable incomes.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by lawump

I understand! Hell, I sure could use the money when I was umpiring while in College and while struggling just out of College!

My post was to point out the fallacy in FitUmp56's initial post which (to summarize) stated:

"most (if not all) umpires umpire because they need the money (whether they know it or not; whether they admit it or not). Because they need the money, it influences their calls. This has led to some umps intentionally (and wrongly) calling "safe" runners "out"."

I stand behind that assertion as evidenced many, many times in this Forum where the posters have claimed "call what they want not what you see."

A simple search and you will find this very statement withn the last few days. Search deep and you will find hundreds of posters who agree with this *******ization of officiating.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by jicecone

fitump56,

I for one, take offense to your insinuation that most of us let our officiating integrity be influnced by the money.

I am sorry, I am not aware of many or any millionaires that officate for nothing. In fact I doubt if any millionaires officiate at all.

They do.

So all of us work for the money and their lying if you say otherwise.

Never said all.

It just so happens that a majority of officials also take great pride in what they do, love the game, make great sacarfices and take costly lessons, just to get to a level commensurate with their ability.

As I have.

Now, the fact that you don't agree with other officials opinions on rules, mechanics and officiating methods is a different subject all together.

Yes it is.