I've finally seen it............
 

Having read this forum for a few years before joining, I have often heard of the "Little League Smitty", i.e. wearing a ball bag on the bases, brushing of the bases with a plate brush between innings, often. I personally had never seen this phenomenon. I took it to be an urban legend........

........until Friday.

I was asked to officiate at our local LL district tournament finals. During the game U2 and U3 brushed off the bases with a plate brush (U3 stored his in his trusty ball bag). U3 also scraped off the pitching rubber between innings.

After the game I was lauded by the UIC for doing an excellent job (had alot of bangers at 1st), but he said my mechanics were poor. I asked him to elaborate.

I didn't yell out "Foul" on every foul ball, I did not loudly verbalize "Out" on routine outs at 1st. And I challenged the notion that three good sized adults should "buttonhook" into the middle of the infield on base hits to the outfield.

Damn, all that money wasted at Evans and Gerry Davis clinics. I wonder if I can get my money back.:D :rolleyes: :D

I may be slow, but what is your point? I always brush off the bases. I never wear a ball bag on the bases. My question maybe worse than the Diebler but im lost...(see basketball forum for Diebler)But again Im a sports official,according to coaches I'm always lost.

I will be nice . . . I will be nice . . . I will be nice
 

"NEohioref":

I just think you need to understand where many of us come from . . . brushing off bases SCREAMS (poorly trained) small diamond umpire.

We try hard on this site (each in our own way) to elevate, educate and share things that make umpires better.

Why would ANYONE brush off a base* . . . they are 4" high and everyone knows where they are.

It is similar to using an indicator on the bases. It just screams certain things to other umpires.

*Feel free to "brush a base" with your foot (no real base umpire would carry a brush on to the field) if two players are in "intense" conmversation . . . make sure you stand between them . . . otherwise leave the brushing of a base to the players.

Regards,

Jon Dielber is in MY HOF!

Thanks for not ripping me a new one. I brush off bases in H.S,N.S.A,and little ball. It gives me something to do besides looking ugly,bored,lost.Do u not brush off the pitching plate? How do u handle dusty fields?(let the fielder handle it ,water them down i know)Again like you said to each there own. Please dont kill me guys,but I felt naked saturday w/o my brush. I left it in my other ball bag.That is the sign of a smitty more then brushing off bases.

I don't make it a habit of brushing bases but there is one HS field I work that for some reason has a sandpit that serves as a second base cutout. The bases they use are of the same color (I think they were originally white but over time have become an off white). I will occasionally clean around the base area with my foot or ask a player to clean around the base just to give some contrast. This usually occurs after a couple of steals of 2nd in short order.

I can't understand why that area is such a mess. The head coach keeps the infield grass looking great, it's probably one of the best infields we have in the area.

Interesting sidebar on cleaning bases. Jim Evans recommends never cleaning a base. It has nothing to do with protocol or looking like a rookie. He says that a good cue to look for on a base touch by a runner is whether dirt flies off the bag as he attempts to touch the bag. Leaving dirt on the bag gives you an edge.



Lawrence

Then why do they change out the bases in MLB at least once per game (in many parks).

I often kick bases clean usually because I am also push-pulling the dirt away from the basepath side of the bag.

Timmie, maybe some of us are more concerned about showing effort, amking things better as best we can, and stewardship to the game than trying to meet silly standards "old hats" like you setup to determine who meets your expectations of a good umpire.

Do the umpires change the bases in an MLB park?


Tim.

No I would never brush off the pitching plate? What is the purpose of you doing this? Who cares about how dusty the field is. I can see the plate from any position on the field.

Secondly as someone who works other sports, it is common to see officials do things that make them look like a complete rookie. You will never see any higher level umpires do these the things you suggest. Just like you will never see high level officials in either baseball or football wear an adjustable hat. It just looks hokey.

Peace

Originally Posted by fitump56
Then why do they change out the bases in MLB at least once per game (in many parks).

I often kick bases clean usually because I am also push-pulling the dirt away from the basepath side of the bag.

Why is it I feel like I am towing a piece of hamburger and there is a hungry dog snarfing my heels? :D :D

Point out where I said MLB umps do that but, of course, you knew I didn't. Hungry dogs snarf first, think later.

I suppose you don't clean the plate (what, you do?) and I am sure you don't clean the base fronts as I have said I do so above, is it below you or too far for you to walk?

Your turn.

Do you realize how dumb that sounds? It is not just umpires that have these standards, it is the coaches. If you do things that make you stand out or look like you do not know what you are doing, they will try you more.

Let me ask you this. Do you go to a job interview in jeans and a T-shirt? No matter how qualified you think you are at anything, someone expects you to adhere to some standards in order to look or appear competent. I can tell by your postings competency is really not your strong suit.

Peace

poorly trained small diamond ump..do we know where the base/playe is? Yes,,but a clean bag will also sell the call....

No need to get upset. I was just asking a question. I saw you were trying to draw a parallel between amature umpires brushing off the bases and certain MLB parks changing the bases entirely during a game. I didn't then, and still don't see the connection.

And yes, I clean the plate. Then again, it's not raised above the dirt by two to three inches like the bases are, so it can become quite covered up at times. Call me a stickler for details, but I like to see the plate when I'm trying to call balls and strikes.


And again, the answer is yes I'll kick the dirt off of a bag if it gets so covered that I might have a hard time seeing it. It doesn't happen a lot though as most of the fields I work aren't sand pits like some I've seen.


Tim.

Chewed up dirt areas like you mention must be a PITA, I guess you have to dig them out completely and replace. 2B is a high action area.

Evans is a bright guy and the few umps I have had come through our org, who wanted to go Pro Ump, I recommended Jim. I call him "Jim" only because he and I have had many discussions about those who have taken his copyrighted works and sold or illegally distributed them. Sadly, I know these people and immediately turned them in:mad: :mad:

~sigh~
 

"poorly trained small diamond ump..do we know where the base/playe is? Yes,,but a clean bag will also sell the call...."

So people in your games run around "looking for bases" . . . We all know where the bases are and so do runners. You have to have better logic than this to make sense.

Do u not brush off the pitching plate?

Please write and not text your questions.

No, I have never brushed off a pitcher's plate and we teach our umpires to NEVER do it either. Again all know where it is . . .

You didn't really have a question did you? You are just another umpire trying to make a point that basically is incorrect.

Huh?

Actually, Jim Evans talks about the benefits of leaving dirt on the base -- a stab/kick at the base will kick dirt up and help the umpire make the call.

As far as cleaning the pitcher's plate, I know where it is. And if the pitcher is acting like a pitcher, he's ON the plate. I don't need to see it to know the rules surrounding "making a move associating with pitching."

At lower levels, particularly with a pitcher that steps onto the pitcher's plate from the front, I will kick the dirt off of the pitcher's plate. I have never had reason to do this at the high school level.

Guys, it's NO big deal!! If you want to clean the bases, clean the bases. Just don't get upset when we call you a Smitty!!

I don't carry a brush with me on the bases. I know that the rubber is on top of that little hill in the middle of the field. I know where the bases are, even if they are dirty. If a base comes loose, I DO NOT replace it!!! That is the team/coach/grounds crew's job, not mine. I don't kneel in the dirt and dig out the base post, never, never ,never in a million years would I do that!!

Do so if you wish.

After a steal to second, and when the successful stealing runner asks for time to brush himself off, or maybe he was slightly injured on the steal, if 2nd base is covered in a thick pile of dirt, I will kick a little off, usually just the dirt in the base path though.

Some of these older kids have weird ego's which prevents them from taking a few moments to collect themselves and this is a good way to give them a few moments to do so and make it look like I am doing something constructive. ;) Call me a "smitty" if you will, but I have never had a college evaluator ever say a word about it.

A brush out on the bases? Oh my!!! :eek:

It's one thing to kick the dirt off a base (I've done that myself) and quite another to have a brush and actually BRUSH the dirt off...I think we are in violent agreement on this one!!

Nobody would ever call you a Smitty over this. I would think we all kick dirt off a base to give a runner a minute.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, so I'll ask:
Are you saying that if you brush off a base you look like you don't know what you're doing?
the question is to you and the others who seemingly have the same opinion.

I had a 15 yr travel game the other night, solo, R2. Pickoff F1 to F6.
there was zero color differentiation between base and dirt, between the bodies and being 120' away I couldn't even see the bump.
Makes it real difficult to make an accurate call.

Betwwen innings I walked out kicked the bag and when I still couldn't see white I pulled out my brush.
IMO, anyone who thinks that is unprofessional has a warped sense of professionalism.
I'd say ability to see base is right up there with angle and distance.

Again,
 

Don just another example of how we see the game and umpiring from two widely divergent views.

Psst, I'll stick with mine,

You don't dust off bases or the pitcher's plate.

Regards,

To experienced coaches and trained umpires, yes.

Here is the problem; you and others are trying to oversimplify this discussion. You do not see a Major League Umpire or a D1 umpire brush off the bag with a plate brush. Now it is called a plate brush for a reason. The very same reason you do not see basketball officials wear a collared shirt either. If you do it either means you are not very well trained or you are not a very knowledgeable as an umpire or official. Now you can think whatever you like. But whether you like it or not, when someone is trying to decide to give someone a big game or move up in a level, they will use things like what I just told you as part of the discussion. Because if you bring out a plate brush to wipe off the a base, chances area you are doing other things that are not considered professional. Also someone might scrutinize you much harsher as well. I have yet to find anyone that teaches this. I did this for about 2 games and I was told to stop. I did not question the person, but they told me it looked bad and made me seem like a rookie and I have not done this since. This is no different than wearing a ball bag on the bases as well.

You do not have to agree. But I will also not be making decisions about your career or your umpiring opportunities. I do not see a big deal going to an interview without a tie or chewing gum, but the person that is doing the interview just might.

Also keep in mind you said you were working a 15 year old travel tournament. That level does not have the same expectation of umpire professionalism as working a HS varsity game or a college and pro game.

Peace

WOW, if id been a RAT there and saw THAT, id have been ALL OVER you next opp because RIGHT away i know Ive got "fresh fish" on the field :cool:


RUTLEDGE is RIGHT. GO AHEAD, wear a ballcap backward when you go for that BIG INTERVIEW...its your RIGHT


and you WONT get the JOB so you can MOAN all the way HOME about how life is UNFAIR.

Mr MULLER make sure on your GAME CHECKS they spell "CHARLIE" correct, ok?

to
Tim, Rut, Garth and Larry

I understand that none of you would lower yourself to clean off a bag, but none of you spoke to the issue that prompted the cleaning.
Do you prefer making calls at 120' to a bag you can see or approximating where it might be based on player location?
Personally I prefer seeing the bag before making a call
Was it one of the old SNL comedians that said "It's better to look good then feel good"?
You guys have gone one better 'It's better to look good then get the call right'
I'd rather be a 'smitty' and get the call right then be... well be like you and be guessing

Wow!
 

Don step away from the table . . . take a breath.

"Do you prefer making calls at 120' to a bag . . . "

Not sure how that could happen since I would never accept an assignment of a one man game.

"Personally I prefer seeing the bag before making a call . . . "

Don I would suggest that maybe the problem lies with you if you can't see the bases on a field. I have never seen an umpire EVER have that problem.

" . . . well be like you and be guessing . . . "

I have no idea what you mean with this statement but I would bet that none of those you have named "guess at calls."

Here's an idea:

Form a four man crew with Steven Tyler, PWL and fitump56 and the two of you can umpire anyway you want.

Regards,

Don,


I just want to let you know that the bag could be brand new and glaring white and you're still going to have to make your best guess on a pickoff play or steal of second if you're making the call from behind the dish. There's no way you can accurately see the bag from there.


Tim.

Again, as funny as it appears on the surface, Tyler/PWL is not fitump56. They are truly two different people, hard as that is to fathom.

Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say on any given day they may be as many as 8 different people.

Tim.

95% of the folks on this board are not MLB, MiLB or D1. Never do any of these umps ever have to make a call from 120'

Field conditions are also much different at most Babe ruth, travel fields and in house fields. Sometimes one has to improvise


Brushing off a base so you can see it at 120' is much different than wearing a collared shirt.
One is necessitated to help insure a correct call, the other is a matter of uniform.


The trained umpire by definition has xray eyes and can see thrugh the dirt at 120'
Give me a break!!
It's a matter of seeing the base or not seeing the base.

You are such an elitist.
I'd venture to say that over 95% of the baseball games played in this country are below the HS varsity level. When umpiring below that level field conditions vary from excellent to very poor.
When I'm doing a solo 15 yr old game I'm not interviewing for the ASU vs USC game. I'm doing what's necessary to give the 15 yr olds a quality officiated game and if that means I have to brush off 2nd in order to see it, so be it.


If it's 2 man I totally agree, not if you're solo and you can't see the white of the bag.




It's no different than wearing a collared shirt in basketball but much different than brushing a base out of necessity



See elitist comment above

It has nothing to do with "lowering yourself." How hard is it to see a bag that is off the ground? This is not something like the plate that in imbedded in the ground. The bases is off the damn ground. Even with some dirt on it, it is easy to see. If you cannot see an object sticking out of the ground, you need to get into better position or go to an eye doctor. I also did not say I would not kick some dirt off the bag. I said I would not use a “plate brush” (notice the name) to brush dirt off the bag.


So you are telling me that if you have two umpires that have the same ability, 5'7 and 300 pounds and the other umpire is 6'1 and 195 and athletic will be judged the same?

Also one of the biggest myths in any kind of officiating, is the fact that we think "getting plays right" is what makes us a better official/umpire. Getting a play right is often a perception. There are veterans that have been around, have a vast resume and they will make a big mistake and no one will bother them. They have earned a certain level of respect for years of experience. A rookie has not earned that same level of respect even though they might be better than most veterans are nitpicked by everything they do. If you want to believe that no one makes decisions about you as an umpire on factors like this. Turn your hat backwards. Wear white colored shoes. Wear a pair of pants from Wal-mart. Use and adjustable hat. Do all those things and more then do not complain when other umpires inferior to you get better games or advance or are asked to work the big tournaments. But remember you got the plays right. ;)

Peace

I agree that you have to make an educated guess on occasion, but you have abetter education when you can see the white of the bag.

If you're not ready for the answer, don't ask the question.

Well then we are in total agreement as to your situation. In 2,3 or 4 man I would never brush a bag either.
Since you have never had to make a call from 120' to a dirt colored bag then it seems your advice and opinion on this matter should be weighted accordingly

My question was not posed in such a manner as to be seeking advice.
I just wanted to make sure I was reading you right and I was.

I consider those who are too lazy to get the bag visible to be the "smitties"

I understand that you haven't done a solo on a poor field in a long time, maybe ever. I can say that with confidence because your statement about the bag being off the ground therefore visible is a dead giveaway.
I'll guarantee you there are plenty of umpires on this board that would verify what I'm saying but they're scared of getting flamed.





If angle and distance is important then why is bag visibility so unimportant?

This should help clarify the issue.

If you Garth were doing a solo game and second base was the color of dirt and you could not see it from HP, what would you do?

2nd ?

If kicking it did not change it's color then what?

99% of non-umpires judge us on things that they see on TV or at the local MLB stadium. That is just the way it is whether you or I like it.

Actually it is not, but then again I am experienced in both.

I am still having a hard time trying to understand why it is hard to see a base that is raised off the ground. Also I do not see even most youth fields so bad that dirt is stacked on top of each base. Usually most youth fields I have worked on they do water the dirt and they rack the dirt. Or they do not have to do this at all because of rain that pelted the field. I know I wear contacts, but maybe my eyesight is better than your eyesight.

Don, even on the lowest of levels, there are people that do nothing but take care of the fields from my experience. Actually where I live the players and the coaches are the ones that keep up their own fields. At the D-1 level I have worked, the group that put on the tarp was the home players. That does not sound like too elite to me. That sounds like the coaches, players and fans want the field to be in good shape.

Don, you are sadly mistaken. Basketball is just like any other sport that has mores that are expected for the officials to look like they know what they are doing. BTW, I just finished my last basketball camp on Sunday. Most of the comments that were made about me were about presentation, appearance, use of voice, ability to run and the last thing that was talked about was calls I actually made. Why is that, because officials at a certain level are going to have equal or similar ability to make a call? The other things I listed show an official's confidence and give the perception they know what the hell they are doing. It is very hard in a basketball game (applies to baseball too) for a coach to say I was not in position when I hustled and I make the call. Even how we sell a basic all can tell on us as an official to how much we know about the game.

If I am an elitist, you are a weekend warrior. We are judged as officials from the way deal with the secretary at the school to the time we leave the field or gym that we officiate. Also do not think all lower level coaches have not played or have not coached the game for years. They are often judging you in ways you will never know. There is a reason some umpires are always having problems and other umpires hardly ever have problems. I went for about a 5 to 6 year stretch without ejecting a single coach. In many of those cases I was never seen before by the coaches and I had some really tough plays to call. I can assure you that a large reason for that was because I was trained on the dos and donts of umpiring and I looked like I was in position and hustled every single time I was on a field during that time. Also most umpires that I know that really take umpiring seriously, want to work HS and HS varsity because the pay usually goes up and people they work with are much better. If you are just a LL umpire and you want to brush the dirt off with your plate brush that might be something that works at that level. When you start working games beyond that, you better be more competent in what you are doing. If not, you will be run out off the field a lot quicker.

Once again this is just an opinion. Feel free to ignore them. I am just sharing something to help out those out that do not know any better.

Peace

have NEVER had any problems seeing a base without "BRUSHING" it like some FISH out there......wow

if you cant SEE a base thats like 2 feet SQUARE and 3-4 INCHES tall from the PROPER position on the field, JEHOVAH man get some LAZIK or quit ferchissssakes


YOU are why CHARLIE jokes are POPULAR. NUF SAID DONE with this one

Well,
 

Sadly Don you have simply become . . . insignificant.

Ignore +1

Regards,

1) On a pickoff, "safe". On a steal, "out"

2) I would never know whether kicking the bag would change it's color.

There are three things I don't do on the field: Give a rules clinic, demonstrate balks, perform field maintenance.

Lets just agreee to disagree, I have worked with umpires that have worked "The Big Game" and have seen them brush,kick,dirt off the bases. Call me a Smitty if you want. I guess we are all Smittys ,even the guys who worked the big game. And Im sure you dont want to work with me since I'm poorly trainned. Hey Dad,do you think your going to get another state playoff game?This will only be 17 in a row. How many college/minor league games will you work? Blame my smitty dad I guess. Now let me go brush off this base.

well NO need to get defensive once your mistake was POINTED out. its ONLY using a BRUSH on the bases thats WRONG...you can KICK the darn things ALL DAY if you want.

BRUSH on BASE is a CHARLIE, dont CARE how many "7U Champeenships of the KNOWN UNIVERSE" they worked!

I watched a good, non-Smitty umpire kick dirt off second base yesterday. Actually I'd like to think even those who would "never" do field maintenence would have made an exception in this case. Here in sunny California, we need to water the infields to keep them in playable condition, and a broken water main had left the area around second with 2 or 3 inches of dust. Umpires and fielders could see the base, but baserunners coming at high speed had difficulty in picking up the base. I suppose BU could have stopped the game and called in the field crew to clean the base, he wasn't too proud to take care of it himself. The defense sure wasn't going to do it!

From my point of view, if cleaning the plate is the plate umpire's responsibility, cleaning the bases would be the base umpire's responsibility. The difference is that the bags almost "never" need cleaning. Neither does the pitcher's rubber.

The point we agree on, Dave, is that no matter what the action, kicking off a base, cleaning this or that, it's about making the game better. It's about not being shamed to be off service to the game. And the kids who play it.

I have wartered fields, raked infields, put down and picked up bases. Sold fence advertising, worked after hours with players...I enjoyed doing this, it was no great self-sacrifice.

What's the big deal. If a guy wants to brush off the bags, what's the big deal? Because t doesn't meet your standard of behavior?

Pffft on that.

What Bob said. When I'm working the bases, I don't get my hands (or feet) dirty doing the work of a grounds crew. If there is no grounds crew, then the home team works the field.

If I really wanted a base cleaned (I'm not sure why, unless I was trying to appease some rat), I'd ask a fielder to do it. Why would you go out 127 feet between innings and do it yourself when you could say, "Hey, Meat, brush the bag off for me, wouldja?"

I know where the bases and rubber are. I don't need to see them to know where they are.

Getting the big game is no measure of whether the umpire is a Smitty, depending on what area you live in.

Let me ask you proponents of cleaning off the rubber and the bases a question. If you perform this "maintenance" do you wear a maid's uniform? I think that a nice black French Maid's outfit with black stockings and a feather duster would fit the bill for you all! I never realized how many hot dog munching Smitties were on this board!

Unbelievable! Just unbelievable!

Fit, let me sum this up for you. You are correct, cleaning bases or the rubber does not fit into what I consider my job as an umpire. Neither does field maintenance or repair. If I am working the bases, I do not possess a brush, so that eliminates that option.

In an earlier post I said (Paraphrased) "Do whatever you want", just don't be upset when others describe you as a Smitty.

I think we should change "smitty" to "fitty"...what does everyone else think?

I think that there are several, several posters in this thread that need to go and become members of eteamz.

The following are Facts:

(Some) Things taught at umpire school

(1) You shall not carry an indicator on the bases.

(2) You are an umpire and not a member of the grounds crew, thus you shall not clean the bases, replace the bases when they become loose or do any other field maintenance while being a base umpire. If, after a play, a base is truly located under a pile of dirt, you shall ask a player to kick the dirt away.

(3) You shall not touch the pitcher's mound. Pitchers and pitching coaches can (and do) become very mad if they perceive that you are messing with their pitcher in any manner. Leave all pitchers the F alone...unless they are arguing with you.

(4) You shall not tell the new pitcher the number of outs, or where the runners are located, etc. That is the job of the manager/pitching coach/catcher. Again, you shall stay away from the mound (see #3 above)

Very good points, but I would add in #4 unless he asks you.

Of course, I know you are talking about when they change pitchers but some of these guys based on their posts might not have understood that.

I do it the way Rich described, "hey you, clean the base" etc.,

The fielder's or the runner will do it and we play ball..

Thansk
David

I think law is talking about a report to a relief pitcher who has just come into the game.

Many of the guys in my association are Smitties (to some degree or other), and they seem to expect me to do this when I'm on the bases. Last week, a pretty good partner asked me, "Are you going to tell him the situation?" I replied: "Doesn't he have a coach?"

Partner gave him the Smitty report. [sigh]

Yes, I'm talking about a relief pitcher.

If a relief pitcher asks me for the count (usually after his warm-ups, but before the first pitch) I will: (1) give it to him just as I would to any pitcher (from behind the catcher) if I'm the plate umpire or (2) tell him to ask my partner if I'm the base umpire.

if im BU im not CLOSE ENOUGH for the relief Pitch to ask ME the count--im in shallow LF or RF minding my OWN BUSINESS until the PU is ready to RESUME the game.

UmpLJ--here's hoping your caps lock key never quits working!

We recently had a thread about a TD wanting umpires to "hang around" after the game in case there was a possible appeal play.

The point is: In Rome do as the Romans

In the aforementioned no matter how rediculous it might seem is the protocol for that league then as TEE mentioned in the other thread you basically have 2 choices

1. Do the game the way the league wants you to OR
2. Refuse the game

Same with the indicator. In MY HS association they WANT the BU to carry an indicator on the field. Other associations frown on it.

In a nutshell, each organization around the country has their own nuances and if you want work, you will abide.

If these umpires "took it upon themselves" (meaning no pre-arranged protocol, etc.) then I agree with the term "Smitty" for this kind of umpire.

Pete Booth

That must be an interesting sight...... the plate umpire calls "Time", and
runs across the field to sweep off second base. What a remarkable visual
that must be ! :rolleyes:

This is funny to me. My dad has not been to 17 state games,he is not even a official in any sport. I just threw that one out for reaction. But what really surprises me is if something doesnt meet your standard or if you dont agree with what is being done its wrong. Jim Evans didnt teach us that ect..., I know some of us take officiating very seriously and would like to take it to the next level. Would I clean the bases while working at a higher level? Probably not. A earlier poster said show me in any umpire manuel/rules book that says base umpire must keep the bases clean. True it doesnt say its required,but at the same time it doesnt say never do it. I dont have a MLB umpires manuel, but Im sure it doesnt say base umpire shouldnver have an indicator on the field. This is food for thought you do the dishes. An to the comment about the french maid outfit, I do wear proper umpire attire on the field. But your wife can come and pick her outfit anytime she wants to. She is great.:)

Fun with Numbers
98% of the people have never been to a MLB stadium and 99.9% of the people watching TV never see the umpire until there's a s#@%storm.
So contrary to your assertion I say no one but other anal umps will ever judge me based on what they see on TV.
The next time a MLB ump has to make a call from 120' with the 7:00 sun bearing down from RCF on a dirt colored base will be the first time.



Experience has never been a good substitution for common sense



I never said all fields or most fields, in fact the other day when I Brushed 2nd was the first time I'd ever done it, but the conditions were such that it in my opinion dictated it.





I was LJ at a varsity football game last year where I actually leaned down picked up the orange end zone pylon and put it back in place. I've never ever seen an NFL ref do such a thing. Maybe that's why I haven't got that D1 assignment yet.



When I'm not warring on the weekends I manage a few salesman. Some do what it takes to get the job done and others don't move a muscle if it ain't on the job description.
When it comes time to pass out the perks or I need to assign an account, who do you think gets first priority?

Suddenly experienced coaches know the do and don'ts of an umpire, even know proper mechanics?
Either the coaches are rats and have no idea as to rules, mechanics and nuances of an umpire or they do. Don't suddenly give them credit for their incredible insighfulness when it suits your side of an argument.
That's being a hypocrite.

I've never worked a 2 or 3 man game game where I or my P have brushed a bag so I don't know if there is a correlation between brushing a bag and trouble with game management. Perhaps you're privy to some studies I haven't seen.
On the surface I see no correlation between brushing a bag and lack of game management skills.
Are there bag brushers who struggle with game management? I'm sure there are. Are there non bag brushers who have trouble with game management? Absolutely.
When I'm BU I will never brush a bag for 2 reasons.
1. I won't have a brush
2. I'm not using my hands

But not because I think there is some cosmic bad karma that's going to hit me if I do.


Good umpires are not in the habit of making assumptions.
I do not do in season college ball and I do not do LL but in between I do all levels.
Travel ball actually pays more than varsity. The good 14 and 15 yr old travel teams are as good if not better than many varsity programs.

If every opinion was the same the forum would be quite boring

I think most have given their say on the matter quite clearly. If you feel it's necessary to brush the bases and pitcher's plate go right ahead. I think you should also call time and brush off all the base runner's cleats too. After all they're much easier to see when they're clean.


Tim.

very nice post:)

When was the last time you did a solo game?

You brush the plate, that's maintenance, and there is a good reason for it at 5' feet away you want to see the corners and know when the sliding runners foot touches. So why at 120' is there such an uproar when an ump wants to see the bag?

Don,

I'm sorry, but comparing homeplate to the bases in this discussion is a straw man argument. We don't keep the plate clean to see plays there better. We keep it clean so we can call an acceptable strike zone. I know I can can have multiple runners cross homeplate darned near covering it up and then have a tag play transpire, and I can still make my call with confidence.

I mentioned to you before that there's no way you running out to clean second base gives you a better view of a tag play there. The best you can see is if the runner was close enough and ask yourself if he beat the ball there or vice versa.


Tim.

Ahem,
 

"This is funny to me. My dad has not been to 17 state games,he is not even a official in any sport. I just threw that one out for reaction. But what really surprises me is if something doesnt meet your standard or if you dont agree with what is being done its wrong. Jim Evans didnt teach us that ect..., I know some of us take officiating very seriously and would like to take it to the next level. Would I clean the bases while working at a higher level? Probably not. A earlier poster said show me in any umpire manuel/rules book that says base umpire must keep the bases clean. True it doesnt say its required,but at the same time it doesnt say never do it. I dont have a MLB umpires manuel, but Im sure it doesnt say base umpire shouldnver have an indicator on the field. This is food for thought you do the dishes. An to the comment about the french maid outfit, I do wear proper umpire attire on the field. But your wife can come and pick her outfit anytime she wants to. She is great."

This kind of sets up my answer:

It has always been my opinion that guys such as Pete Booth, Bob Jenkins, Tim Haag, Rich Fronheiser, Jeff Rutledge, Ozzy, lawump, Steve Meyer, mbyron, Garth B, DavidB and others offer insight into how to umpire because they care.

Most of these gents also teach umpiring to various levels of umpiring.

When we try to teach someone who is interested in learning it is exciting for all of us. But sadly, we also get umpires who first ACT as if they would like help but continue to argue their way.

I think what all of us old hides have tried to say in this thread is that perception is important. Sometimes perception is critical.

If you want to carry a brush on the bases, wear plate pants on the bases, uses an indicator on the bases, tell a pitcher the count and outs as a base umpire, stay near the mound when a coach comes out to talk to a pitcher just keep on doing what you are doing.

The issue comes from people's perception of you and that will not change.

If an umpire wants to learn I think there is a wonderful advantage of reading threads on the internet. You can get a real good picture of what is probably correct in most areas.

Like everything you need to filter what works for you.

I will make a coaching analogy:

When I was a player my coaches always said: "Tee, be glad we are yelling at you -- it means we care and think you have a future in sport . . . worry when we don't yell at you, it means we have given up."

I "yell" at fewer and fewer internet umpires every month . . . it is sad.

Regards,

To answer/repond to various points made in this thread since my last post:

UmpLarryJohnson: As to the relief pitcher asking the BU for the count: As I indicated in my post, the pitcher would ask the BU for the count after his warm-ups but before his first pitch. (Re-read my post). I hope to God you're still not out in the outfield at this point. (However, I think a number of posters in this thread are out in left field, permanently.)

NEohioref: It is not a written instruction to pro umps not to carry an indicator on the bases but it is DEFINITELY a spoken instruction. If you carry one on the base you will be "zinged" on your evaluation as this procedure (don't carry one on the bases) has been clearly communicated.

To all about homeplate: Frankly, and not to sound like I have too big an ego, but once a game gets going and I get into a groove behind the plate...I don't really need to see the plate in order to call balls and strikes. The plate doesn't move...trust me, I know where it is. I keep it spotless...to keep up appearences for the RATS. If the plate is dirty, they will say, "how can you call that a strike, you don't even know where the plate is." The truth is that the plate doesn't move. I know where it is. But I placate them and keep my plate spotless.

My comment does not include people like my mother that would never go to a baseball game unless I dragged her there.

True statement. Sad part is I agree but for different reasons. ;)

I also never made a comment about the level of ball the fields this might apply or might not apply. But you jumped to a conclusion about the level as if that would change how I or others feel about this situation.

Well, I have seen NFL officials move the pylon back. As a matter of fact that was the case the last NFL game I attended. ;) Once again you are missing the point. It is not about cleaning off the bag, it is about using a plate brush. Officials might put the pylon back because they just were involved in a play where the pylon moved.

I did not ask you about your real job.

I am not saying they know everything. They do expect us to behave in a professional manner and there are things that tell on our experience or our competence level. Umpiring/Officiating is about survival. When you do things that make you look new or inexperienced, a coach will take advantage of it. It is not always fair or right. It just is that way.

Even if you are right, the reality is that someone that you might have to deal with will think you are not as well trained. Then when you do not do the other things perfect, they will draw their own conclusions. I think you are putting way too much on whether someone brushes off a bag or not. I do not think anyone said your entire career was based on this one fact. But when you do things like this, it usually does not stop there. Can you show me anywhere in any book where this is apart of our job description? If you cannot show me, then that just goes to show you are advocating something that is not expected of us. If you do not know the basics, what rule do you not know? What mechanic do you not understand? What game management skill have you not been told about?


I did not make any assumptions. You said you did this at a 15 year old travel league. I think you might agree that working a travel league does not have the same expectations or requirements as a HS or college level game. Even a freshman game requires an umpire to have a license and to follow certain protocols or they will not work that level or they will stay at the freshman level the rest of their career. I can work a travel league game and the only requirement is for me to have a uniform and maybe some protection. I really do not understand why you are so sensitive about this. You are the one that brought up the level you did this at.

Peace

7/9/07.

I didn't brush off the rubber or the bases. To be fair, we got rained out before the game was complete.

The last complete solo was 7/3/07. No brushing there, either.

The last time I brushed off the old bag, it was years ago when I accidentally kicked some sand on my mother-in-law.

I've never considered umpiring or officiating a game of survival. Proper game management skills allow the vast majority of games to go smooth.
In the rare case a storm hits then I take it as a challenge to get through it professionally, making proper rulings and keeping my integrity. If the adrenaline spikes a bit it's invigorating.
Never do I take the field with the thought of hoping to survive.
Talk about coaches smelling blood.

Here's the thing, I'm not new and I'm not inexperienced, there is nothing to take advantage of.
Good game management skills trump bag brushing.



Aren't you the one that says you could care less what others think when you're on the field?


And I care why?


No I think everyone else is including yourself.
I have simply said that in order to see the bag at 120' I have no problem brushing it. That was in response to many people on this thread calling anyone who brushes a bag a smitty.
It's ok to kick the bag, but heaven forbid you actually lean down and accomplish something.

Would you prefer umping a game on a lined field or unlined?
On a fly down the line, it's much more accurate if you have a foul line. Of course if you don't you make your best guess. If there is a line it takes the guess work out.

To those who have occasion to work a game solo and 2b happens to be dirty beyond kicking and you choose to call blind because you ego or energy level doesn't allow you to clean it then IMO it shows your commitment level, or lack thereof. Maybe it gives an insight to who is really there for just a paycheck.



Apparently you don't work any high profile travel tournaments. The expectations are as high as any varsity contest.


You called it LL, I was just correcting you.

Does your association take any one with a mask and a shirt to do games?
If that's the case I can see it being pretty easy to get to varsity and college in your area.

Here! Here!

I agree with the SZ comment, that is why I said "to see the corners"
but I also like to see the plate on the first play at the plate

touche

I'm not sure how rubber brushing got included in the DM bashing but so be it.

Not for me. I don't care how much they pay or how far they travel. I treat it no differently. Someone needs to go, they go just as quickly as if it was the guy from the local league.

Don, it is clear you will never understand anything. I give you a concept and all you do is, "yeah but......" If you umpire and you want to keep umpiring you do things that will keep you doing it. One of the ways is not looking like someone that is not knowledgeable about the job. Now anyone can work a LL or travel league game. Not everyone gets asked to do all levels of baseball.

Game management skills are also about perception. If you are perceived to be a rookie, you might not be given the leeway to get your point across or that a coach and players will listen to you when the heat is on. It is clear that veterans that are respected can say and do things that some new kid on the block never will be able to do.

I work an organization’s World Series that last few years. It is a 15 year old tournament and it is the only youth ball I work the entire year.

It is clear you live under the myth that everyone that works any sport is always the best and brightest. Also I do not work all my games from one source or association as you put it. I work for a lot of people in different situations and circumstances. And I know that in my state baseball is the step child of the three sports I work. It is a lot easier to get certain opportunities because there are not the numbers as other sports to be so selective.

Don, I think if you read Tim's post earlier he pretty much pegged me accurately. I am a person that has been asked several times to teach newer officials in all my sports with either with my associations I belong to or by the state office in which I live. I have recently been asked to run a clinic for newer officials from around my entire state can and will attend in the year and in the future. They could have picked several people to do the things I was asked but consistently I am asked to continue the work that many people find valuable. I am not telling you anything to get you to completely agree with me. I am telling you this to help the reader avoid a perception that might make a situation bad for an inexperienced umpire. I have never tried to equate this one issue with all game management skill or every other aspect of umpiring. But one pebble will make difference in any pond. And usually a little thing like this is followed by other things. If you think this is not a big deal, then what do you think about the detail of your uniform or a specific mechanic? My post is not to convince you, but every time someone tries to make a point to you, you want to magnify this situation more than what it really is.

Peace