Umpire mechanics question
 

3 man crew, FED playoffs, R2, 1 out. Fly ball to CF and caught. R2 tags up and takes third after the catch. Where are the umpires before the pitch, where do they go during the play and who is watching what?

Thanks in advance.

:D So few 3 Man games in FED, no telling :D

We have U1, U3 and PU, for the purposes of this play. Pre pitch alignment with a R2 is, U1 is in B and U3 is in D. The catch/no catch is divided with U3 taking the LF moving in, back or toward the LF line, U1 taking the "V" and PU taking the RF moving toward the RF line (this is roughly a 20/70/10 split of the field). The fly to CF is U1's call, he has responsbilility for the tagup as well so he must line up the catch and tag within the working area. U3 has R2 into 3rd.

PU in this case pretty much observes the action.

Thanks, Pattie, this is why 3 Man is a st00pid option for FED; it's more about looking keen and adding another ump to the payroll than getting calls right.

I'll tell you what is REALLY idiotic is 4 man on the 60' field. We used 2 man in the playoff for the preliminary rounds and 3 man for quarter and semi's and 4 man for final games.

I believe it was in 2005 that the NCAA changed their mechanics to allow the inside umpire to go out on trouble balls. That one change alone made 3 man worth it, because the only advantage 3 man has over 2 man is the ability to have an umpire go out on every trouble ball.

Your appreciation and understanding of three man appears, by this statement, to be limited.

I will amend my statement to...'one' of the advantages of 3 man vs. 2 man is the ability to have an umpire go out on trouble balls.

So you call 3 Man all the time? 3 Man is an academic study for the rest of us, I bow to your consistent use of 3 Man. Please enlighten.

In my golden years, I am doing pretty much all LL 60-foot games.

[Waiting for sniggering]

We do 3-man for all local final games and state games. It works just fine.

In addition to letting a BU go out for trouble catches (there are plenty), you also have coverage on the frequent play where R2 will try to advance after throw to F3 on an infield grounder. U1 can take the rock and U3 is ready for play at 3B, whilst PU can stay home, waiting for the inevitable error.

On the real diamond, 3-man has definite advantages in double-steal situations, iffy bunts where defense may try to put out an exisiting runner, base touches, delayed obsructions, tag-ups, pickles, hmmmm.

I could go on. So far, in Garth's corner.

Ace

Please explain why you think this is "stupid." It's the same mechanic for CCA and OBR (with perhaps some variants on whether the umpire in the middle has the "big V" or the "little V").

That is, quite possibly, the stupidest post I've ever read on this board.

Sounds like a challenge. And undoubtedly, someone will take it on.

If you want to read stupid, go the the Basketball Forum and read anything that Old School writes.

MTD, Sr.

Hmmm,
 

That is why I always say:

"This ties for the dumbest post ever made on the internet."

Currently Donavan has six of those.

Regards,

3 man is 50% better coverage than 2 man, and significantly easier than 2 man.

wow FITUMP ....FED does 3man all the time in PLAYOFF season.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by fitump56
Thanks, Pattie, this is why 3 Man is a st00pid option for FED; it's more about looking keen and adding another ump to the payroll than getting calls right.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Newbie, huh? :D :D

Let's look at this 3 Man idea for a second. Bear with me, don't change the channel, you might learn something. Open a closed mind...if possible.:p

Fed wants 3 Man in playoffs. Sounds good, one more guy out there, better officiating..........

Bzzzzt. Wrong. 3 man mechanics are quite different from 2 man. I se this scramble to learn 3 man every youear. Even the "old hats" can't get the mechanics down as they fire drill and practice, usually with no game on, and try to "perfect" 3 man. Coaches, I can't count the number who have called me complaining about terrible 3 man mechs, hell, you know, you're right, Coach.

3 man is a joke when the quality of play is at its highest. Why does FED promote it?

1) The "old hats" usually get the FED playoffs, they are older, 3 Man means less running around.
2) It looks neato kewl
3) It supports the idea that the playoffs are special ("Look Billy, three whole umpires!!!)
4) MLB has extra umps, why not us? I won't begin to pick apart the failures of MLB extra4 crews, they are legion.
5) FED is run by a bunch of senseless morons (see the rule changes including the now infamous "out without protest" missed bag idiocy) who wannabe NCAA so bad they can't think straight.

Nope, sorry ET(n) ump, call home to someone who can open your eyes since I consider your response, quite possibly, the stupidest one I have ever read on this board.

See how that works? ;) :eek:

IF done properly, rarely it is. Easier, sure is, which as I have posted is one of the main reasons they have 3 man, older umps need the "easier" but who are we supposedly serving here, the umps or the sport?

Why not 4 man or 6 man then? Is a few bucks here and there in a sport that rakes in hundreds of thousands of consequence? Not in the least.

3 man, I stiffly contend, is a joke that serves umpires not the game.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by fitump56
So you call 3 Man all the time? 3 Man is an academic study for the rest of us, I bow to your consistent use of 3 Man. Please enlighten.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Which part of my post above blew right over your head, Larry? What percentage of HS games are playoff games?

See other posts, asked and answered Bob. I don't call CCA, how many FED umps do? OBR mechanics, are you talking PBUC? FED mechanics to PBUC? Two man OBRs?

What is stupid is to put umps in a set of mechanics they rarely use.

4 man on 60', no kidding, who died running into each other? :D

You know, I see a few more but I agree that may well be the best advantage of 3 vs 2 and that assumes that everyone gets their 3 man mechanics tight on those troubled balls.

Maybe that has something to do with limited use of it? I dunno, some, no, most of us don't have the time to spend massive amount of daily hours reading the nuances of X man mechanics, of course, and as always, YDayMV and certainly does.

Won't get any here. I have as many of these under my belt as 90' (I think ;) )

I don't get it... are fitump56 and BigUmp56 the same guy?

PS: MTD: I was thinking the same thing before I read your post. Not fair - you beat me to it.

If JR's contention is true, 3 of fitump56's posts have been deleted, as I only count 8 consecutive posts: 17 through 24.

Basketball had a guy like that too. I forget his username though.

FitUmp56 also posts under Steven Tyler, and used to post under PWL. He also apparently has an imaginary friend called Donovan. The names "Wayne" and "Paul" have come up too, I think. All of these different personas are noted for making and then deleting posts. He is also known for answering his own posts by using a different persona

It sure would be simpler if he only used one username to post. Sybil would be kinda apt.

http://www.fright.com/edge/sybil.html

Btw, I don't think that FitUmp56/StevenTyler/PWL/Wayne/Paul has ever been seen in the same room as Old School either.

Also btw, he is also a key member of the legendary on-line on-going feud that rivals the Hatfields and McCoys. He and his various personalities are on one side and BigUmp56/SanDiegoSteve are on the other side. It's kinda like <b>Days Of Our Lives</b> and it's lasted just about as long too, spanning several message boards.

Tune in daily. You never know what you might miss. You have to get there before the moderators though, or you'll miss about 50% of the posts.

It's true, it's true......:D

As a point of posting etiquette -- there's no need to repsond to each and every post, especially when you're making the same point.

Yes, I meant PBUC (or any other mechanics used in leagues that use OBR). The point is, you criticised a specific coverage under FED mechanics, when the coverage is the same under all (large-diamond) mechanics. What would you propose instead?

On this topic, I generally agree. "Competent" two-person mechanics are better than "incompetent" three-person mechanics. And, if the individuals don't have the proper training, the time to get it is NOT during the most important games. Still, that sounds like a problem with your area / association than with any specific mechanics or plan to use 3 umpires during the playoffs. Many areas provide that training during the season.

I'm glad that baseball and basketball have opposite seasons. It makes visiting the OF year round worthy.

I stopped watching the stories on TV, maybe this is an acceptable substitute. :)

Yup. Matter of fact I could argue (quite convincingly) that 3 is the sweet spot in terms of number of umpires.

I agree that 3 man mechanics are quite nice if you are used to them. Randomly grab 3 2-man mechanic umpires and throw them on the field and the result is not always good.

Wow. I didn't expect my question to cause such a stir. But since three-man is only used during the playoffs in FED, it makes sense why there is the occasional problem.

In the ten playoff games I broadcasted this past season, the OP sitch was the only time there was a clusterflop. The runner tagged second (I don't know if he left early or not, I was watching the ball) and headed to third. The ball beat the runner and was tagged before his foot hit third base as he slid. None of the umpires made a call. I kid you not, they just stood around looking at each other. Even the batting team's HC told me after the game the runner was out. The defense then appealed to second that the runner left early and the runner was then called out. Maybe a make up...I don't know.

I was just curious because I am not familiar at all with three-man mechanics as I normally broadcast so few playoff games. In all ten games, this was the ONLY screwup I saw. The rest of that game and all the others went smoothly as far as the officiating went. I even got to call a perfect game...except the kid that threw it was for the other team. :o

Thanks for all the input.

This is a misconception stemming from a mistaken thought that the NFHS is a sponsoring authority of the games played under its rules. The state associations are the sponsoring authorities and decide on the number of officials for the playoffs. As often as not, the schools decide for themselves how many to hire for the regular season. I know of at least one conference that mandates 3 man crews for regular season conference games.

You don't have the players right. I can PM you (actually tried, but you don't accept PMs) with the official Days of Our Lives at OF Scorecard. Can't tell the players without a scorecard. The truth shall set you free!

Turn your PM acceptance back on, and I will forward the 411.

Steve, I'm really not sure that I want to know the truth.

Sybil is one scary dude.:D

Originally Posted by fitump56
See other posts, asked and answered Bob.

Which is why I said "See other posts, Bob. Look, all in all, I don't think you have treated me unfairly and if I have come off as such, I apologize. It's simply not the case.

Point taken and I believe you are correct. Sadly, the wealthiest HS ball schools/teams don't put out for that money, IME.:mad:

Fair enough, I guess I would propose that regardless of the mechanc, get umps used to calling 3 Man. I don't see this as a mechanic sitch. Did I answer your question, I am not trying to dodge it.

Yes, it is an area issue, but no one teaches squat around here anyway (off soapbox). There is absolutely no good reason that 3 man can't be tried and trued before post season, none. This is my fundemantal complaint, it's not against 3 Man, it's exposing the ridiculousness of not having the proper prep and education well before post season.

If the umpires want more experience, then tell them it's okay to go to a field on a "day off" and volunteer to jump in with the crew assigned and work three-man.

Or, have the association pony up the cash to pay the third umpire on a few games a year.

Get some umpires who are interested in this together and volunteer to work pre-season scrimmages for free.

We call three man in 80% of our HS games, so its not always an issue here, but even if you call 3 man all season long, there is no reason NOT to cover all of this in pregame.

Its only about a 5 minute conversation and all three man can be covered thoroughly.

The problem is that some people don't want to do a pre-game thus problems.

thansk
David

We only do 3-man crews for HS playoffs, two-man the rest of the regular season. However, we use the preseason scrimmages (we're required to work at least 2 - I usually do 3-4 to shake the rust off) to practice 3-man mechanics.

Originally Posted by fitump56
Fair enough, I guess I would propose that regardless of the mechanc, get umps used to calling 3 Man. I don't see this as a mechanic sitch. Did I answer your question, I am not trying to dodge it.

Yes, it is an area issue, but no one teaches squat around here anyway (off soapbox). There is absolutely no good reason that 3 man can't be tried and trued before post season, none. This is my fundamental complaint, it's not against 3 Man, it's exposing the ridiculousness of not having the proper prep and education well before post season.

No kidding, HS pay for 3 man where you are? I take that back, it's not as much a money issue as it is a personell issue. The numbers of umps aren't there in many places.