FED equivalent of OBR 9.02a

[TwoBits]

Rule 9.02(a) Comment: Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game.

What, if any, is the equivalent FED rule?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Rule 9.02(a) Comment: Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game.

What, if any, is the equivalent FED rule?

No direct equivalent, but these rules apply:

3-3-1g; 10-1-4; 10-2-3c

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Rule 9.02(a) Comment: Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game.

What, if any, is the equivalent FED rule?

Whereas OBR & NCAA forbid arguing judgment calls such as but not limited to Ball/Strike, Fair/Foul, Safe/Out, FED actually allows coaches to question the calls as long as it is in a "sportsmanlike manner".

[charliej47]

Ozzy,

In my FED rules book, they are not allowed to argue balls and strikes unless I'm missing something.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by charliej47

Ozzy,

In my FED rules book, they are not allowed to argue balls and strikes unless I'm missing something.

I think Ozzy's wording is a quote (or nearly so) from BRD.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think Ozzy's wording is a quote (or nearly so) from BRD.

Thanks, Bob. Don't have the BRD at work but that is where I read that.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by charliej47

Ozzy,

In my FED rules book, they are not allowed to argue balls and strikes unless I'm missing something.

Charlie, please tell me where in your 2007 FED book you are reading anything close to the OBR rule.

Regards

[charliej47]

Oz,

In the FED Umpire manual it talks about allowing the coaches to ask questions as long as it is in a "sportsmanlike manner". In the Rules manual under Rule 10, it talks about ejecting a Coach or play or "arguing" calls.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Charlie, please tell me where in your 2007 FED book you are reading anything close to the OBR rule.

Regards

FED
10-2-4
Art. 4... Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. But if there is reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made. The umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision.

Fed does not allow questioning of judgement calls, sportsmanlike or otherwise.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

FED
10-2-4
Art. 4... Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. But if there is reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made. The umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision.

Fed does not allow questioning of judgement calls, sportsmanlike or otherwise.

2006 BRD Item #42 BATTER: BALLS & STRIKES ARGUED
FED: Any umpire's decision involving judgment, such as the call of a ball or strike is final. (10-4-1; 4.5.1)

Note 45: The difference between FED and the other books is this:
Umpires at other levels have specific language that prohibits game participants from arguing balls and strikes. FED quietly sanctions such objections - as long as they are sportsmanlike. Question: "A player of coach who questions a ball or strike shall be ejected, True or False?" Answer: "False (3-3-1 PEN)" (Question and answer are from the 1993 FED Baseball Rules Exam. Part II, #60) If the player or coach questions in an unsportsmanlike manner, warning/ejection is the ticket. (3-3-1g)

I know this because I got the question wrong and argued until I was blue in the face. It is hard to accept but the FED will not stand behind you if push comes to shove! If a coach's job is on the line, they will side with the coach providing he addressed you in a sportsmanlike manner. Trust me, I have been in the position for first hand knowledge on this matter.

The rules haven't changed so if any of you have a question, I suggest that you contact Carl Childress as he authored the BRD or B. Elliot Hopkins (rules interpreter for the FED)!

Regards!

[SanDiegoSteve]

What part of "final" does the FED have a problem understanding? IMO (which is not worth much), the coach should have thought about his lack of job security when he came out to argue balls and strikes. He is going to get a warning to stop arguing balls and strikes, and I don't care how sportsmanlike he goes about it. After being warned to stop arguing he persists, he's gone.

[charliej47]

Oz,

Over the years I have ejected maybe half-dozen coaches and forfeited one game under FED rules for arguing and been upheld every time.

[ozzy6900]

Steve & Charlie,

I too have sent coaches to the showers in FED games for the same reasons. My point is the same as the Brad's in that NCAA & OBR have specific language to protect our ejection. Under FED, the coach can go to the State Board and plead his case that he was "acting in the team's best interest and in a sportsmanlike manner" and (at least in one occasion that I was a part of) possibly get away with it.

Regards