What's a rat to do?

[kawallac]

Dixie Pre-Major (15-16) tournament. R2 takes large secondary lead. F2 throws down to second. R2 beats throw feet first, is laying on back, foot on bag. I'm in first base coaching box. No call by umpire located at SS. F6 points at runner's foot says, "He's off the base!" and rolls the ball to the mound (out 3). Umpire makes the out call. Defense leaves field. I immediately ask umpire to request help from umpire on first base side. He says it's his call. I agree and say that we (me and umpire near first) had a different view. He says he "had the angle." I say that we had a better angle and again ask him to ask the other umpire what he saw.

Obviously, it didn't go my way. The defensive players are laughing and high-fiving. R2 says he was on the base the whole time.

What is the best way to get an umpire to request help?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kawallac

Dixie Pre-Major (15-16) tournament. R2 takes large secondary lead. F2 throws down to second. R2 beats throw feet first, is laying on back, foot on bag. I'm in first base coaching box. No call by umpire located at SS. F6 points at runner's foot says, "He's off the base!" and rolls the ball to the mound (out 3). Umpire makes the out call. Defense leaves field. I immediately ask umpire to request help from umpire on first base side. He says it's his call. I agree and say that we (me and umpire near first) had a different view. He says he "had the angle." I say that we had a better angle and again ask him to ask the other umpire what he saw.

Obviously, it didn't go my way. The defensive players are laughing and high-fiving. R2 says he was on the base the whole time.

What is the best way to get an umpire to request help?

Go to the dugout. The inning's over. Prepare your kids to play defense.

[BigUmp56]

Rich is right. You did all you should do by asking him to go for help. It's his choice whether or not he will. If he's confident his call was correct and he had the angle he shouldn't be going for help.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It sounds like he was a pretty gullible umpire to let the fielder talk him into making an out call by rolling the ball to the mound. If the runner were really off the base, the umpire would have called it right away, and not waited for the fielder to trick him.

That fielder would have just gotten a blank, vacuous look from yours truly, and somebody really should go pick up the ball before the runner takes off for third.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It sounds like he was a pretty gullible umpire to let the fielder talk him into making an out call by rolling the ball to the mound. If the runner were really off the base, the umpire would have called it right away, and not waited for the fielder to trick him.

That fielder would have just gotten a blank, vacuous look from yours truly, and somebody really should go pick up the ball before the runner takes off for third.

How quick we are to throw our own under the bus!

Consider who wrote the OP.

Maybe there was a cloud of dust or the glove was behind the foot and BU was simply delaying his call until he saw the ball in the glove. I know I'M in no hurry to make the call in this situation and maybe BU wasn't either.
Offensive coach however sees the delay as indecisive and from his perspective the BU was tricked or manipulated.
But I will hold out the possibility that the first base coach 95' away had a better look and is looking at it totally impartially.

[Arnold A.]

Well said, Don.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

How quick we are to throw our own under the bus!

Consider who wrote the OP.

Maybe there was a cloud of dust or the glove was behind the foot and BU was simply delaying his call until he saw the ball in the glove. I know I'M in no hurry to make the call in this situation and maybe BU wasn't either.
Offensive coach however sees the delay as indecisive and from his perspective the BU was tricked or manipulated.
But I will hold out the possibility that the first base coach 95' away had a better look and is looking at it totally impartially.

I don't know the person who wrote the OP, but I give the person the benefit of the doubt as to truthfulness. He said R2's foot was on the base, and that he beat the throw. It really sounds like F6 called the play for the umpire.

Are you implying that coaches are incapable of the objective reporting of a given play? He didn't say anything about dust clouds or gloves behind feet, or any other unusual situation. He said that the runner beat the throw, and that the runners foot was on the base. Are saying that he's lying?

I see a problem in a fielder calling the play, and rolling the ball away before hearing anything from the umpire. That is the part I find the most disturbing here. I don't like base coaches signaling "safe" either, which tempts me to call "out" just because they felt the need to "help out." This is the same thing. No way does F6 get the call from me after showing me up by making the call for me and not waiting for my call before discarding the ball.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by kawallac

Dixie Pre-Major (15-16) tournament. R2 takes large secondary lead. F2 throws down to second. R2 beats throw feet first, is laying on back, foot on bag. I'm in first base coaching box. No call by umpire located at SS. F6 points at runner's foot says, "He's off the base!" and rolls the ball to the mound (out 3). Umpire makes the out call. Defense leaves field. I immediately ask umpire to request help from umpire on first base side. He says it's his call. I agree and say that we (me and umpire near first) had a different view. He says he "had the angle." I say that we had a better angle and again ask him to ask the other umpire what he saw.

Obviously, it didn't go my way. The defensive players are laughing and high-fiving. R2 says he was on the base the whole time.

What is the best way to get an umpire to request help?

Forget all that BS, what I want to know is why do you coaches think that someone 90' away has a better view that a person 6' from the play? Come to think of it, why don't you have someone from the stands (about 150' away) give help on the call.

You guys really make me sick! The call didn't go your way, put your tail between your legs, and get on defense!

Regards!

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by kawallac

Dixie Pre-Major (15-16) tournament. R2 takes large secondary lead. F2 throws down to second.
What is the best way to get an umpire to request help?

From a purely baseball point of view, you can avoid this specific sitch altogether. Teach your kids that at 2nd, a throwdown from F2 to second means take off for third base. Unless the kid's hauling a fully loaded wagon you'll get that base nearly every time.