Coaches who know umpiring
 

This year, I have done a lot of baseball and coaches say the darnest things. Here is the list of some of the things coaches said to me this year.

1. Balks can only be called by the field umpire.

2. Everything is protestable(Judgement calls such as safe/out, fair/foul, and balks)

3. If you tag a runner on the back before he reaches the base, he is safe because you can't tag a runner in the back.

4. Only the umpire in cheif can throw someone out of the game.

5. Pitchers can go to their mouths and touch the ball without 1st, wiping his hand/fingers off 1st.

6. Pitchers can have a SOILD WHITE GLOVE.

7. Pitchers must be set for at least 3 seconds before he can deliver the pitch

8. If the pitcher drops the ball while on the rubber, he can pick it up and a balk is not called.

9. Runners must slide feet first


And my favorite,

10. BALLS AND STIKES CAN BE ARUGED!


Just thought you all would enjoy the very knowable coaches I deal with every weekend

#5. In the OBR it says nothing about wiping off, only that you not be in the 18" circle.

8.02
The pitcher shall not --
(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand.
PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.
(2) expectorate on the ball, either hand or his glove;
(3) rub the ball on his glove, person or clothing;
(4) apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball;
(5) deface the ball in any manner; or
(6) deliver a ball altered in a manner prescribed by Rule 8.02(a)(2) through (5) or what is called the “shine” ball, “spit” ball, “mud” ball or “emery” ball. The pitcher is allowed to rub the ball between his bare hands.
PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6)
(a) the pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically. In National Association Leagues, the automatic suspension shall be for 10 games.

Why would you assume he's talking about OBR?

In my area High School is over and the Summer Leagues play OBR. (with a few white sheet modifications)

He said that this is what he has heard this year. Also many summer ball in my area is played under FED rules. So you cannot assume he is talking about OBR just because most HS seasons are over.

Peace

Bud, a coach can argue balls and strikes if he wants. He just won't be around long to do it. Also, by protest, do you mean argue or file a formal protest? I've had a coach protest because the field lights weren't turned on soon enough. They can basically play the game under protest for anything they want, but if it's not a protestable call it just gets filed in the waste can.

Balls and Strikes most certainly CAN be argued!

Otherwise, the rule books wouldn't have a penalty listed for doing so.

Jerry
:D

It takes two to argue. In my games it's a short-lived one-way conversation that usually ends with me telling the coach that I've had enough. If he doesn't understand my warning then he'll be removed.

That's what I told him. But he he assist on doing so. I even gave him another chance, but he told me, so blue, do you flip a coin and if its heads, its a ball and if its tails, its a strike. So I stop the game, got a coin out, flipped it, turn to him and said, "It's tails and your out of here". Also a coach had a game under protest because of a safe/out called my partner "blew". Of course, my UIC (Umpire in Charge) just laugh.

I'll have the coaches I have call your coaches, they missed a few:

1. The tie always goes to the runner.

2. The hands are part of the bat.

3. There's tape there so it's no longer considered wearing jewelry
becaue you can no longer see it.

4. You can't call that a strike. My batter called time out.

5. No way that sliding runner was safe. The ball beat the runner to the base.

"Coaches who know umpiring"

...I'm still waiting to meet one. (And, no, I have not met CoachJM, yet).:)

I know a couple.

One is a pretty good umpire, he does some college, and AA minor work. Very low key, and will not take anyone to task out loud. He'll just stand beside you and tell you the rule that you just stuck a fork in.

The other one can't wait to pounce on the lesser skilled umpire. Miss a rotation, didn't see a missed base, miss the OBS at first, two guys at one base, you're going to hear about it. My son is brutal. Going from being an umpire instructor to a coach is an easy transition, but this time the students can eject you.

"Time!"

"Hey, that may be the best call you've made all day"

Please tell me you are joking.

Yep, that's what it says. That still doesn't mean that a pitcher is allowed to go to his mouth and then directly to the ball without wiping off first. Even if he's outside the 18' circle we don't allow it.


Tim.

In my area High School is over and there are summer leagues of high school players playing on "high school teams" under FED. The JV games are pretty loosey goosey as to the rules, ie free substitution, etc. but the "varsity" games are straight up FED. No graduated seniors are on these teams so it is developmental for the players that will play in the spring.

Last time I looked in the rule book, the "tie" does go to the runner. Doesn't say it but specifically but it does say for an out the runner/base must be tagged before they reach the base. "Before" is not the same as "at the same time". Of course some will say that's not possible, there's never a real "tie". Within the limits of human perception there is. Best description is in FED rules
under batter is out - D3K stuation. Don't have my rule book with me, but look it up.

True enough. But, for other runners, they are out if they fail to touch the base before the fielder tags the base. (8-4-2j). So here, the "tie goes to the fielder."

OBR is the same way (iirc -- I do know that the rule at first and the rule at other bases are opposites).

I think JR has this as one of the 234 contradictions in the rules.

At best there's a contradiction in the wording of the rules. Either way, there are no ties.

FED 8-4-1
The batter-runner is out when:
f. after a dropped third strike (see 8-4-1e) or a fair hit, if the ball held by any fielder touches the batter before the batter touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball in his grasp, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base: or

FED 8-4-2
Any runner is out when he:
i. does not retouch his base before a fielder tags him out or holds the ball while touching such base after any situation

j. fails to reach the next base before a fielder either tags the runner out or holds the ball while touching such base, after runner has been forced from the base he occupied because the batter became a runner (with ball in play) when other runners were on first base, or on first and second, or on first, second and third. There shall be no accidental appeals on a force play.

(edited to add 8-4-2 j as pointed out by Bob J.)

There is an old saying that the tie goes to the runner, however what I was taught years ago when I started umpiring, is that the tie goes to the umpire and call the runner out. This way keeps the game moving.

I am NOT a physics major...nor have I tested this. But I was taught by a umpire who subsequently became an MLBer that:

If the umpire perceives a "tie" at first (that is he sees B/R's foot hit the base at the same instant he hears the ball pop into the glove of F3 (or whomever)) it actually isn't a tie.

Why?

Because light travels faster than sound. Since the sound of the ball hitting the glove took longer to reach your ear than the time needed for the light to travel to see the play at first, if you perceived them to occur at the same time, the sound of the ball hitting the glove actually occurred first. Thus, call the runner out.

Now, I have sat in outfield bleachers and watched a game and have clearly noticed (as I'm sure we all have) that the "Ping" sound of the ball hitting the bat reaches us significantly after the actual contact was visually seen.

However, I'm not sure if I'm buying that the difference in velocity is great enough to make a difference (considering where BU is standing) for a play at first. But maybe it does...as I said I'm no physics major.

But in any event: I love the theory: Call the B/R OUT!

I'm in the percentile that believes there are no ties. When in doubt, go with the out.

Light travels much faster than sound so if it looks and sounds like a tie, it's an out. Of course quality of the play is a bit of a factor also. Good plays are rewarded and bad plays are not. It's physcological and I have never had an argument on a safe call on a defensive play that was poorly made and it is rare to have an argument on an out call on a defensive gem.

Nope! And I wouldn't of done this if it was a high school game. This was a little 10 year old game!

you could just become a clown instead of an umpire. its probably easier to entertain 10 year olds that way.

A tie is what you buy your Dad for Fathers Day.

I was not at the game, but we had a high school coach ejected for this. His team was on defense, there was a close play at the plate, and the runner was called out. He came out to berate the umpire for being out of position for the call and ended up getting ejected. $250.00 fine and a two game suspension.

I have not had an opportunity to talk with the umpire involved, and I suspect the "discussion" went into areas best left alone, but if he had not come out to "discuss" the alleged poor positioning, he might have still been around at the end of the game.

Pretty hefty penalty for making a point.

Based on your description, you have no idea why the coach was ejected. So your assessment that the penalty was for "making a point" has no basis in fact, as far as you know.

I hope you don't throw your partners under the bus so readily.

More coaches' "mythconceptions"
 

1. On an infield fly, the ball is dead.
2. A caught pop-up to the catcher in foul territory must go over the batter's head to be considered an out.
3. HBP + batter swings and misses. "HE GETS FIRST!"
4. In LL, the defense can make a standard appeal play to put out a runner who left early on the pitch.
5. "What verbal obstruction? My player just yelled 'FOUL' to the runner."
6. Darkness halts a regulation-length game where a winner can be determined. Losing coach: "Don't worry, gang, we're coming back tomorrow to finish this."
7. When base coacher fails to avoid F3 fielding a foul pop-up, it is not INT. "He was trying to get out the way."
8. "It's the base he's headed to, plus one."
9. Batter-runners must turn to the right after crossing first.
10. "HE'S ALWAYS GOTTA SLIDE!"
11. "You mean I gotta say which runner I'm appealing?"
12. "The ball hit the runner--he's automatically out."
13. "If he trows [this is not a typo] his bat, he's out."

Lucky number, so I'll stop there. For the right amount, I could go well into triple figures.

Ace

I stated three facts.
1. The call went in favor of the coach.
2. He came out to berate the umpire for his positioning, even though the call went in his favor.
3. He was ejected.

Where did I throw anyone "under the bus"? I said nothing about the ejection not being warranted. I was pointing out the stupidity of a coach coming out to argue mechanics when the call went in his favor.

Edited: In re-reading my originaly post, I realized my statement about the hefty penalty could be mis-understood to mean that I was opposed to the ejection. I have no idea why he was ejected, and knowing the umpire involved, the coach was given every opportunity to stay in the game. I apologize if I gave the impression I disagreed with the ejection.

I know that's not rule book text, but what criteria would you use to differentiate a foul tip from a caught fly ball?

When could a hit ball that never went above Batters head, that ended up behind the batter, caught by F2 be a caught fly out instead of a foul tip?

I can't picture it.
So though it might not be the "rule" practically speaking it's accurate.

If it's a foul ball hit in front of the batter and is caught makes no difference the height, but I dont know how F2 could catch it if it didn't pop-up above the head.

I've seen this in FED, though. The next time those two teams met on the schedule and finished the prior game first even though one team was leading when play was halted in the sixth.

Yep, that was my impression.

I think you have it "backwards". It's not "this is a fly and everything else is a foul tip." It's "this is a foul tip and everything else is a fly."

So, if it's not sharp and direct (iow, if there's any arc, even if it doesn't go above the head) it's a fly, and an out if it's caught.