U2 Positioning 4 Man Crew

[ozzy6900]

We've seen several problems with infield positioning at the MLB level this year. Both Joe West and Gerry Davis (well seasoned and experienced) have been caught looking up the back end of plays and making questionable calls.

The set up is simple. With a runner on 1st, U2 has to be in and may be either in B or C (his choice, check the book). Now, I prefer to be in deep C and let the runner "come to me". By deep C, I mean that I am one step from the dirt (never use this position in a 2 man system).

Sunday night, I was caught with a bit of a strange tag. R1 was stealing and F2 fired a strike to F6 covering. I let the ball turn me and realized the the throw was on the 1st base side of the bag. F6 caught the ball and followed through with his arm to the outfield side to tag R1 already in the dirt, sliding in. Needless to say, I was caught in front of the play and I could not see the tag 100%. The tag was completed and R1 caught the bag with his hands. I called the out and R1 was furious (these were college players)! He had his say and it ended (that's not the question here). There were no complaints from coaches or fans and play went on without any other problems.

I checked with U1 after the game, and he told me that the tag had in fact not been made! It seems that R1 slid far enough away that F6 missed in his back swing! We talked about if I was in deep B but that would have put me in a worse position - looking up the back of the play and still not seeing the missed tag.

Now I've never run into this problem before but I am a bit bothered by the fact that I was not able to see that tag properly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

We've seen several problems with infield positioning at the MLB level this year. Both Joe West and Gerry Davis (well seasoned and experienced) have been caught looking up the back end of plays and making questionable calls.

The set up is simple. With a runner on 1st, U2 has to be in and may be either in B or C (his choice, check the book). Now, I prefer to be in deep C and let the runner "come to me". By deep C, I mean that I am one step from the dirt (never use this position in a 2 man system).

Sunday night, I was caught with a bit of a strange tag. R1 was stealing and F2 fired a strike to F6 covering. I let the ball turn me and realized the the throw was on the 1st base side of the bag. F6 caught the ball and followed through with his arm to the outfield side to tag R1 already in the dirt, sliding in. Needless to say, I was caught in front of the play and I could not see the tag 100%. The tag was completed and R1 caught the bag with his hands. I called the out and R1 was furious (these were college players)! He had his say and it ended (that's not the question here). There were no complaints from coaches or fans and play went on without any other problems.

I checked with U1 after the game, and he told me that the tag had in fact not been made! It seems that R1 slid far enough away that F6 missed in his back swing! We talked about if I was in deep B but that would have put me in a worse position - looking up the back of the play and still not seeing the missed tag.

Now I've never run into this problem before but I am a bit bothered by the fact that I was not able to see that tag properly.

I work deep B for this reason (better coverage on swipe tags), but you still have to get a lean and a look after the ball turns you. You're deep enough to get your nose right on the baseline, if you need to on the tag.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

We've seen several problems with infield positioning at the MLB level this year. Both Joe West and Gerry Davis (well seasoned and experienced) have been caught looking up the back end of plays and making questionable calls.

The set up is simple. With a runner on 1st, U2 has to be in and may be either in B or C (his choice, check the book). Now, I prefer to be in deep C and let the runner "come to me". By deep C, I mean that I am one step from the dirt (never use this position in a 2 man system).

Sunday night, I was caught with a bit of a strange tag. R1 was stealing and F2 fired a strike to F6 covering. I let the ball turn me and realized the the throw was on the 1st base side of the bag. F6 caught the ball and followed through with his arm to the outfield side to tag R1 already in the dirt, sliding in. Needless to say, I was caught in front of the play and I could not see the tag 100%. The tag was completed and R1 caught the bag with his hands. I called the out and R1 was furious (these were college players)! He had his say and it ended (that's not the question here). There were no complaints from coaches or fans and play went on without any other problems.

I checked with U1 after the game, and he told me that the tag had in fact not been made! It seems that R1 slid far enough away that F6 missed in his back swing! We talked about if I was in deep B but that would have put me in a worse position - looking up the back of the play and still not seeing the missed tag.

Now I've never run into this problem before but I am a bit bothered by the fact that I was not able to see that tag properly.

Ozzy in a nutshell it's called "being human" which is probably a different topic altogether. No matter what we do we WILL kick some calls it's a fact of life.

Personally I can count the number of times I did 3 / 4 man over the past 5 years. Unless you get District / State type games you will be working 2 man.

With that said I prefer B but as you mentioned above when working 2 man you cannot get into a "deep B or C" position because we have to worry about the pick-off at first which is virtually impossible to get a good angle when in a deep B or C position.

Generally speaking obviously F2 wants the ball right at the second base bag but if he misses he prefers the first base side because if the throw is on the shortstop side almost always will be a safe call because the fielder would have to reach back to catch it and then apply a tag which will be too late.

Experiment with B because that's where we are in a 2 man anyhow so it becomes "second nature"

Pete Booth

[lawump]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

We've seen several problems with infield positioning at the MLB level this year. Both Joe West and Gerry Davis (well seasoned and experienced) have been caught looking up the back end of plays and making questionable calls.

The set up is simple. With a runner on 1st, U2 has to be in and may be either in B or C (his choice, check the book). Now, I prefer to be in deep C and let the runner "come to me". By deep C, I mean that I am one step from the dirt (never use this position in a 2 man system).

Sunday night, I was caught with a bit of a strange tag. R1 was stealing and F2 fired a strike to F6 covering. I let the ball turn me and realized the the throw was on the 1st base side of the bag. F6 caught the ball and followed through with his arm to the outfield side to tag R1 already in the dirt, sliding in. Needless to say, I was caught in front of the play and I could not see the tag 100%. The tag was completed and R1 caught the bag with his hands. I called the out and R1 was furious (these were college players)! He had his say and it ended (that's not the question here). There were no complaints from coaches or fans and play went on without any other problems.

I checked with U1 after the game, and he told me that the tag had in fact not been made! It seems that R1 slid far enough away that F6 missed in his back swing! We talked about if I was in deep B but that would have put me in a worse position - looking up the back of the play and still not seeing the missed tag.

Now I've never run into this problem before but I am a bit bothered by the fact that I was not able to see that tag properly.

I know of one MLB umpire who told me to my face, as I was learning 3 & 4 man mechanics in spring training, that he uses "B" because of the very play you described.

[socalblue1]

IMO part of the problem is being much closer to 2B, BU is restricted in ability the ability to step/lean after turning with ball (Look at how many MLB umpires simply turn with ball & go to one knee to make this cal).

This is the primary reason the old AL has U2 on the outside - play always in front of umpire and easy to get the best possible view. It's very similar as taking the steal at 3B as U3 in a 3/4 umpire crew. A definite plus is being 30' further from an MLB line drive.

[ozzy6900]

Sounds like a plan. I'll give the deep B a whirl and see if it prevents this problem.

Thanks all for the help!

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

We've seen several problems with infield positioning at the MLB level this year. Both Joe West and Gerry Davis (well seasoned and experienced) have been caught looking up the back end of plays and making questionable calls.

The set up is simple. With a runner on 1st, U2 has to be in and may be either in B or C (his choice, check the book). Now, I prefer to be in deep C and let the runner "come to me". By deep C, I mean that I am one step from the dirt (never use this position in a 2 man system).

Sunday night, I was caught with a bit of a strange tag. R1 was stealing and F2 fired a strike to F6 covering. I let the ball turn me and realized the the throw was on the 1st base side of the bag. F6 caught the ball and followed through with his arm to the outfield side to tag R1 already in the dirt, sliding in. Needless to say, I was caught in front of the play and I could not see the tag 100%. The tag was completed and R1 caught the bag with his hands. I called the out and R1 was furious (these were college players)! He had his say and it ended (that's not the question here). There were no complaints from coaches or fans and play went on without any other problems.

I checked with U1 after the game, and he told me that the tag had in fact not been made! It seems that R1 slid far enough away that F6 missed in his back swing! We talked about if I was in deep B but that would have put me in a worse position - looking up the back of the play and still not seeing the missed tag.

Now I've never run into this problem before but I am a bit bothered by the fact that I was not able to see that tag properly.

You had a clean catch and good throw by F2, no position you could take to see the swipe-miss, circumstantial evidence is is enough to convict for "stealing"
You took this so-called missed call home with you shows that you have your heart in the right place. That is your reminder that you have performed admirably. Don't confuse your feelings with guilt for underperformance; when there is none. You took this call home with you for no other reason than you cared.