Help with this one

budjones05 · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2007, 11:56pm

Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. Fly ball to the center fielder is caught. The runner on 1st now has to go back. Runner on 3rd tags up and scores before the runner on 1st is double off for out 3. Does the run count?

GarthB · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2007, 12:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by budjones05

Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. Fly ball to the center fielder is caught. The runner on 1st now has to go back. Runner on 3rd tags up and scores before the runner on 1st is double off for out 3. Does the run count?

Yes. It's an appeal play, not a force play.

Delaware Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2007, 05:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by budjones05

Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. Fly ball to the center fielder is caught. The runner on 1st now has to go back. Runner on 3rd tags up and scores before the runner on 1st is double off for out 3. Does the run count?

It's right there in the rulebook:

Rule 2.00 (Force Play) Comment: Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the “force” situation is removed during the play... Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

Official Baseball Rules

JR12 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2007, 07:51am

Didn't the MLB Umps screw up a similar play this season?

David B · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2007, 07:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by budjones05

Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. Fly ball to the center fielder is caught. The runner on 1st now has to go back. Runner on 3rd tags up and scores before the runner on 1st is double off for out 3. Does the run count?

Legally the run scores; however this is one play that seems to happen over and over (even at MLB level) that is called incorrectly.

So the run should score; however, I might add this depends on the umpires

Umpires seem to forget that this is an appeal play.

Thanks
David

johnnyg08 · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2007, 08:15am

I know that many young umpires use the term "force play" incorrectly...when in fact, as stated above, this is an appeal play. As many of you know on here...there is a distinct difference when it involves the 3rd out of an inning and a run scoring or not.

greymule · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2007, 09:04am

America would be better off if you couldn't be graduated from high school or obtain citizenship unless you could prove you knew what constituted a force play.

In fact, I'm going to write to my senators.

Welpe · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2007, 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule

America would be better off if you couldn't be graduated from high school or obtain citizenship unless you could prove you knew what constituted a force play.

In fact, I'm going to write to my senators.

Greymule in '08!

budjones05 · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 12:55am

Thanks! I knew that, but the coaches didn't! Thanks once more!

SanDiegoSteve · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 01:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB

Yes. It's an appeal play, not a force play.

Garth, do you have a shortcut key dedicated to fill in this answer? It seems to come up about once a week!

Jim Porter · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 18, 2007, 01:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

there is a distinct difference when it involves the 3rd out of an inning and a run scoring or not.

There are even more differences than that. For example, a force out could be made quite by accident. But an appeal play must be an unmistakable act. But, of course, you knew that.