All right, I'll try again. Garth said: "The run does not score when the third out occurs before the batter/runner safely reaches first."

This implies that the run doesn't score if any third out occurs before B/R safely reaches first. In fact for this part of 4.09(a) Exception to hold, the third out must be made by the B/R, and by the B/R only. Obviously both you and Bob Jenkins know this, but for the benefit of others I included a ubiquitously cited situation to demonstrate that the above quoted statement isn't quite right.

There are other ways for the exception to be invoked, but in those cases the status of the B/R is not relevant.

I'm not sure what part of my original post you think is incorrect, but I like to think that the paraphrase of rule 4.09 is correct. And this current post shows that I think my first paragraph was also right.

Easiest discussion in the world: Coach with bases loaded are there runners at first and second?? Let's play ball.

I believe in the KISS philosophy and it seems the authors of the baseball rulebook don't. They should try to simplify the rulebook as much as possible so there wouldn't be so much confusion.

Garth, technically he's right. You MEANT - the 3rd out is made BY the BR before the BR reaches first ... but it's not what you said, and that difference is what he's talking about. There are numerous ways the 3rd out could be made BEFORE BR reaches first in which runs would score - most notably any case where the BR is the 2nd out, and a 3rd (non-force) out is made anywhere else before BR (no longer a runner) reaches first.

Is this a nit? Yes ... but I understand why he wanted to clarify this for the OP.

Just kind of wondering Coach, How the hell you can UNDERSTAND this forum?????