Legal Play at Home?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not true.

Hurdling is covered under 8-4-2b.2 "Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. (emphasis added) Diving over a fielder is illegal."

A couple of points:

1) Diving is *also* covered under 8-4-2d "Dives over a fielder." There are no exceptions here.

2) The fielder need not be "prone" as someone indicated (and as is often stated). He can be supine, or on his side, etc.

That's just the feedback or definition I used from what I have opined from the rule. I have never seen it or never had to call it for that matter. I forgot to use the PC term.

Sorry for the use of the word diving, also.

[cshs81]

Please clear up my confusion on the definition of "lying on the ground."

In this case, the catcher went to his knees to block/catch the ball and was in foul territory. He then lunged from his knees towards the baseline and runner. He was NOT lying on his stomach at the time of the attempted tag. Does this fall under "lying on the ground?"

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by cshs81

Please clear up my confusion on the definition of "lying on the ground."

In this case, the catcher went to his knees to block/catch the ball and was in foul territory. He then lunged from his knees towards the baseline and runner. He was NOT lying on his stomach at the time of the attempted tag. Does this fall under "lying on the ground?"

No. And, if the runner had hurdled the torso or head of the fielder, the runenr would be out. If the runner hurdled the outstretched arms / glove (as I seem to recall happening), then it's a legal play.

[cshs81]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No. And, if the runner had hurdled the torso or head of the fielder, the runenr would be out. If the runner hurdled the outstretched arms / glove (as I seem to recall happening), then it's a legal play.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hurdling is covered under 8-4-2b.2 "Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. (emphasis added) Diving over a fielder is illegal."

.

Bob, these two quotes seem to be at odds with each other. I'm assuming there is a fine point I'm missing.

[UMP25]

STOP IT! STOP IT NOW!!!

"Hurdle?" "Prone?" "Torso?" What the hell is this--anatomy class? Gymnastics??? Why the hell am I feeling like a pretzel or some contortionist upon reading this?

Ugh!!!!!!!!

God@#$% FED Rules!

[charliej47]

FED, LL, PONY, USSSA, MLB. OBR, ETC.....

Rules are Rules!

IF you don't do the games, don't complain about the rules. They are all odd in some fashion and hard to understand and interp at times. To complain about rules doesn't make much sense.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED, LL, PONY, USSSA, MLB. OBR, ETC.....

Rules are Rules!

IF you don't do the games, don't complain about the rules. They are all odd in some fashion and hard to understand and interp at times. To complain about rules doesn't make much sense.

I'll complain about the rules because I've earned the right to complain about them.

BTW, look up the definition of the word "sarcasm," because it's obvious you and ozzy don't know it. Some of you people on this board really get your panties all in a twist when someone else tries to have a little fun, that's for sure.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by UMP25

STOP IT! STOP IT NOW!!!

"Hurdle?" "Prone?" "Torso?" What the hell is this--anatomy class? Gymnastics??? Why the hell am I feeling like a pretzel or some contortionist upon reading this?

Ugh!!!!!!!!

God@#$% FED Rules!

Well it's quite obvious that from your outburst, you are not an aficionado of FED rules. Being that, and that the discussion is about FED rules, you would do well to either sit back and learn or skip the thread.

FED rules are very different from OBR and even though most of do not like them, we do not write the rules. Our job is to understand them and enforce them. But if you think FED is bad, try understanding the NCAA DH rule!

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by UMP25

STOP IT! STOP IT NOW!!!

"Hurdle?" "Prone?" "Torso?" What the hell is this--anatomy class? Gymnastics??? Why the hell am I feeling like a pretzel or some contortionist upon reading this?

Ugh!!!!!!!!

God@#$% FED Rules!

Ok what type of sliding restrictions would you put in place?

Do you want amateur players playing like the BIG GUYS and "plow" into one another?

Also, keep in mind that many of these rules are driven by insurance companies.

It's not that difficult to understand. We all know or I should say should know what "lying on the ground" means. In addition we should know the differences between diving, hurdling or leaping.

Diving: = A headlong plunge
Leaping: A self propelled movement upwards / downwards
Hurdling - To jump over a barrier

Notice in Diving - A Headlong Plunge which is why FED discourages this kind of tactic and is an automatic out. When someone dives they are risking serious injury because as the defintion says they are leading with their head as opposed to leaping or hurdling in which the player has more control.

In FED one cannot Dive whether the player is lying on the ground or not.

Pete Booth

[Kaliix]

If I understand this correctly, a runner can jump, hurdle or leap over any part of a fielder who is lying on the ground. If the fielder is not lying on the ground, a runner can only jump, hurdle or leap over an outstretched glove or arm.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No. And, if the runner had hurdled the torso or head of the fielder, the runenr would be out. If the runner hurdled the outstretched arms / glove (as I seem to recall happening), then it's a legal play.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hurdling is covered under 8-4-2b.2 "Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. (emphasis added) Diving over a fielder is illegal."

Originally Posted by cshs81

Bob, these two quotes seem to be at odds with each other. I'm assuming there is a fine point I'm missing.

[mcrowder]

I will grant that it has been a couple of years for me ... so if something's changed in FED rules in the past year, I could be wrong.

But we were basically taught that any sort of jumping over (hurdling, etc) was legal unless you go over a standing player or over the head of a player on his knees. This was interp, as the rule does not exactly spell out for you in black and white where the line should be drawn. The actions in the OP were legal.

[ozzy6900]

I don't understand what the problem is here. As Bob Jenkins posted

Hurdling is covered under 8-4-2b.2 "Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. (emphasis added) Diving over a fielder is illegal."

The whole thing is being blown out of proportion and is very simple. The interpretation has been the same for years - if the fielder is lying on the ground, the runner may jump, hurdle or leap over the fielder. It doesn't matter if the fielder is on his back or on his stomach, as long as he is on the ground!

If the fielder is kneeling, bending, standing upright, dancing the jig, or otherwise not lying on the ground, the runner must not attempt to make himself higher than the fielder he is trying to avoid! So, if the fielder is kneeling and stretches out his glove (with the ball) and the runner bounds over the glove, the runner is alright as long as he doesn't make himself higher than the fielder that is kneeling. I realize that is hard for non-FED people to conceive but that is how it is handles. In 35 years of FED, I have never applied this or seen it happen!

The rule was put in place to prevent runners from diving over catchers on their knees trying to make the tag on the 3rd base line (like you see in the movies). The FED chose not to limit it to just diving over the catcher. Again, the players are not drawing a salary, they are amateurs so safety is the first order of business.