Legal Play at Home?

[charliej47]

FED, LL, PONY, USSSA, MLB. OBR, ETC.....

Rules are Rules!

IF you don't do the games, don't complain about the rules. They are all odd in some fashion and hard to understand and interp at times. To complain about rules doesn't make much sense.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by UMP25

STOP IT! STOP IT NOW!!!

"Hurdle?" "Prone?" "Torso?" What the hell is this--anatomy class? Gymnastics??? Why the hell am I feeling like a pretzel or some contortionist upon reading this?

Ugh!!!!!!!!

God@#$% FED Rules!

Well it's quite obvious that from your outburst, you are not an aficionado of FED rules. Being that, and that the discussion is about FED rules, you would do well to either sit back and learn or skip the thread.

FED rules are very different from OBR and even though most of do not like them, we do not write the rules. Our job is to understand them and enforce them. But if you think FED is bad, try understanding the NCAA DH rule!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am sure it is for safety purposes.

Peace

No, it's not. It's not illegal at all. My point was poorly made.

OP says, "I know it's illegal..." - I want to know why he thinks that.

[Kaliix]

If I understand this correctly, a runner can jump, hurdle or leap over any part of a fielder who is lying on the ground. If the fielder is not lying on the ground, a runner can only jump, hurdle or leap over an outstretched glove or arm.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No. And, if the runner had hurdled the torso or head of the fielder, the runenr would be out. If the runner hurdled the outstretched arms / glove (as I seem to recall happening), then it's a legal play.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hurdling is covered under 8-4-2b.2 "Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. (emphasis added) Diving over a fielder is illegal."

Originally Posted by cshs81

Bob, these two quotes seem to be at odds with each other. I'm assuming there is a fine point I'm missing.

[mcrowder]

I will grant that it has been a couple of years for me ... so if something's changed in FED rules in the past year, I could be wrong.

But we were basically taught that any sort of jumping over (hurdling, etc) was legal unless you go over a standing player or over the head of a player on his knees. This was interp, as the rule does not exactly spell out for you in black and white where the line should be drawn. The actions in the OP were legal.

[ozzy6900]

I don't understand what the problem is here. As Bob Jenkins posted

Hurdling is covered under 8-4-2b.2 "Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. (emphasis added) Diving over a fielder is illegal."

The whole thing is being blown out of proportion and is very simple. The interpretation has been the same for years - if the fielder is lying on the ground, the runner may jump, hurdle or leap over the fielder. It doesn't matter if the fielder is on his back or on his stomach, as long as he is on the ground!

If the fielder is kneeling, bending, standing upright, dancing the jig, or otherwise not lying on the ground, the runner must not attempt to make himself higher than the fielder he is trying to avoid! So, if the fielder is kneeling and stretches out his glove (with the ball) and the runner bounds over the glove, the runner is alright as long as he doesn't make himself higher than the fielder that is kneeling. I realize that is hard for non-FED people to conceive but that is how it is handles. In 35 years of FED, I have never applied this or seen it happen!

The rule was put in place to prevent runners from diving over catchers on their knees trying to make the tag on the 3rd base line (like you see in the movies). The FED chose not to limit it to just diving over the catcher. Again, the players are not drawing a salary, they are amateurs so safety is the first order of business.

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I don't understand what the problem is here. As Bob Jenkins posted
The whole thing is being blown out of proportion and is very simple. The interpretation has been the same for years - if the fielder is lying on the ground, the runner may jump, hurdle or leap over the fielder. It doesn't matter if the fielder is on his back or on his stomach, as long as he is on the ground!

If the fielder is kneeling, bending, standing upright, dancing the jig, or otherwise not lying on the ground, the runner must not attempt to make himself higher than the fielder he is trying to avoid! So, if the fielder is kneeling and stretches out his glove (with the ball) and the runner bounds over the glove, the runner is alright as long as he doesn't make himself higher than the fielder that is kneeling. I realize that is hard for non-FED people to conceive but that is how it is handles. In 35 years of FED, I have never applied this or seen it happen!

The rule was put in place to prevent runners from diving over catchers on their knees trying to make the tag on the 3rd base line (like you see in the movies). The FED chose not to limit it to just diving over the catcher. Again, the players are not drawing a salary, they are amateurs so safety is the first order of business.

ozzy - I don't always agree with you but that was very well said. For the amateurs safety is the biggest concern.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by UMP25

STOP IT! STOP IT NOW!!!

"Hurdle?" "Prone?" "Torso?" What the hell is this--anatomy class? Gymnastics??? Why the hell am I feeling like a pretzel or some contortionist upon reading this?

Ugh!!!!!!!!

God@#$% FED Rules!

Ok what type of sliding restrictions would you put in place?

Do you want amateur players playing like the BIG GUYS and "plow" into one another?

Also, keep in mind that many of these rules are driven by insurance companies.

It's not that difficult to understand. We all know or I should say should know what "lying on the ground" means. In addition we should know the differences between diving, hurdling or leaping.

Diving: = A headlong plunge
Leaping: A self propelled movement upwards / downwards
Hurdling - To jump over a barrier

Notice in Diving - A Headlong Plunge which is why FED discourages this kind of tactic and is an automatic out. When someone dives they are risking serious injury because as the defintion says they are leading with their head as opposed to leaping or hurdling in which the player has more control.

In FED one cannot Dive whether the player is lying on the ground or not.

Pete Booth

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED, LL, PONY, USSSA, MLB. OBR, ETC.....

Rules are Rules!

IF you don't do the games, don't complain about the rules. They are all odd in some fashion and hard to understand and interp at times. To complain about rules doesn't make much sense.

I'll complain about the rules because I've earned the right to complain about them.

BTW, look up the definition of the word "sarcasm," because it's obvious you and ozzy don't know it. Some of you people on this board really get your panties all in a twist when someone else tries to have a little fun, that's for sure.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I'll complain about the rules because I've earned the right to complain about them.

BTW, look up the definition of the word "sarcasm," because it's obvious you and ozzy don't know it. Some of you people on this board really get your panties all in a twist when someone else tries to have a little fun, that's for sure.

From the OP

I know that hurdling is illegal in FED. At what point is something considered hurdling?

R1 coming home. Throw to the plate is off line just a bit. F2 drops to his knees to catch the ball then reaches back towards the baseline to attempt to tag R1. R1 jumps over the glove (say 12 inches off the ground) and is not tagged.

Is this legal? Is it not hurdling since the player is on his knees and reaching for the runner?

There is nothing wrong with having fun and giving your opinion on what you think of a certain rule or not, however, the poster asked a question to learn.

I cannot tell you what to post but IMO, the first thing to do is answer the question , then if you want to add what you think then fine.

In this OP you did not answer the question but simply said you do not care for FED rules which is fine but the point is the poster did not ask you for your opinion of FED rules, he asked a specific question.

In all walks of life we should have fun, but the Umpire Forums should start with the premise that people want to learn etc. about a given rule, then if you want to add your $.02 go right ahead.

Pete Booth

[UMP25]

I had fun making a crack about FED rules. My "stop it" post was done in jest, and it's kinda sad when I have to explain it to those who lack even a scintilla of a sense of humor.

Originally Posted by UMP25

I had fun making a crack about FED rules. My "stop it" post was done in jest, and it's kinda sad when I have to explain it to those who lack even a scintilla of a sense of humor.

A word of advice - when you write comments in a forum, people can't see or hear you - they only see what you write and frequently what they see is not what you intended.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

A word of advice - when you write comments in a forum, people can't see or hear you - they only see what you write and frequently what they see is not what you intended.

Especially in an umpire forum comprised of a bunch of tight-as$ed, ego maniacal sports officials (hey, I resemble that remark!).

I found it ironic that Ozzy would chastise UMP25 for ranting in giant letters, as he does the same thing when he is off his meds!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I had fun making a crack about FED rules. My "stop it" post was done in jest, and it's kinda sad when I have to explain it to those who lack even a scintilla of a sense of humor.

I don't always agree with some of your input here...

But I got your humor ... surprised the others didn't.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I found it ironic that Ozzy would chastise UMP25 for ranting in giant letters, as he does the same thing when he is off his meds!

Except that unlike Ozzy, I don't use meds. Don't need 'em. I just envisioned myself holding my head screaming, "Stop it! Oh! The humanity!" (remember the Hindenburg broadcast?) over all the hair splitting of the FED rule being discussed herein.