Your view on this play

[JerzeeRef]

I had a Babe Ruth game earlier this evening and I would like some feedback on the sequence of events if they were handled correctly.

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, 1 out. Batter hits fly ball to Left/Center for a catch and out #2. I'm PU so I line up best I can for catch and tag from third. Both runners tag and advance, no play on either just yet.

Pitcher has the ball, standing on the infield grass. Def coach is yelling for time so they can appeal, but R2 is now on third and dancing down the line 10-15 feet. I'm not about to grant time as R2 keeps darting towards home.The pitcher then shows the runner the ball and R2 takes a step back towards 3rd base. We are now in the middle of a cluster *@#&.

The catcher tells me they want to appeal the runner leaving early, so I ask which runner. The Coach yells out they are going to appeal that R2 left 2nd early. Pitcher turns towards 2nd, pivots quickly to 3rd and throws to third base, fielder happens to be standing on third base as he puts tag on R2 diving back to bag.

My partner does not make a call right away but looks at me and ask what do I have? I tell him the appeal was for 2nd base so I have no appeal at third so I have no call. He then proceeds to bang out R2 as he never got back to 3rd base. As you can imagine that small delay of my partner asking me, set the tone for the last 4 innings of the evening. The offensive coach felt it was my call on his diving runner back to third, "that's why your partner went to you....because it was your call"

I tried explaining that I had the appeal if there was one, while my partner had any play on R2. But of course we were wrong in his eyes no matter what and it was our fault his team lost 17-4.

Anything that we could have done differently? I like to get the feedback of fellow men in Blue. Thanks in advance.

[David B]

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef

I had a Babe Ruth game earlier this evening and I would like some feedback on the sequence of events if they were handled correctly.

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, 1 out. Batter hits fly ball to Left/Center for a catch and out #2. I'm PU so I line up best I can for catch and tag from third. Both runners tag and advance, no play on either just yet.

Pitcher has the ball, standing on the infield grass. Def coach is yelling for time so they can appeal, but R2 is now on third and dancing down the line 10-15 feet. I'm not about to grant time as R2 keeps darting towards home.The pitcher then shows the runner the ball and R2 takes a step back towards 3rd base. We are now in the middle of a cluster *@#&.

The catcher tells me they want to appeal the runner leaving early, so I ask which runner. The Coach yells out they are going to appeal that R2 left 2nd early. Pitcher turns towards 2nd, pivots quickly to 3rd and throws to third base, fielder happens to be standing on third base as he puts tag on R2 diving back to bag.

My partner does not make a call right away but looks at me and ask what do I have? I tell him the appeal was for 2nd base so I have no appeal at third so I have no call. He then proceeds to bang out R2 as he never got back to 3rd base. As you can imagine that small delay of my partner asking me, set the tone for the last 4 innings of the evening. The offensive coach felt it was my call on his diving runner back to third, "that's why your partner went to you....because it was your call"

I tried explaining that I had the appeal if there was one, while my partner had any play on R2. But of course we were wrong in his eyes no matter what and it was our fault his team lost 17-4.

Anything that we could have done differently? I like to get the feedback of fellow men in Blue. Thanks in advance.

Its still a live ball, why did your partner not just call the runner out at 3rd to start with.

Don't call time, just walk back to the plate and play ball.

I know my son is playing Babe Ruth and the umpires do not know coverage and it causes lots of problems. They have two umpires making the call at first and third routinely - terrible.

Discuss coverage with your partner before and the game so you know exactly who's calling what.

thanks
David

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef

I had a Babe Ruth game earlier this evening and I would like some feedback on the sequence of events if they were handled correctly.

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, 1 out. Batter hits fly ball to Left/Center for a catch and out #2. I'm PU so I line up best I can for catch and tag from third. Both runners tag and advance, no play on either just yet.

Pitcher has the ball, standing on the infield grass. Def coach is yelling for time so they can appeal, but R2 is now on third and dancing down the line 10-15 feet. I'm not about to grant time as R2 keeps darting towards home.The pitcher then shows the runner the ball and R2 takes a step back towards 3rd base. We are now in the middle of a cluster *@#&..

First, based on your description of events, I don't know why you describe this as a cluster.
Simple play continuation and you doing the right thing letting it play out.
Had you granted the coach time at this point you may have created some problems but at this point all is well.

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef

The catcher tells me they want to appeal the runner leaving early, so I ask which runner. The Coach yells out they are going to appeal that R2 left 2nd early. Pitcher turns towards 2nd, pivots quickly to 3rd and throws to third base, fielder happens to be standing on third base as he puts tag on R2 diving back to bag..

Good thing F5 happened to be there, still no cluster and no problems.

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef

My partner does not make a call right away but looks at me and ask what do I have? I tell him the appeal was for 2nd base so I have no appeal at third so I have no call..

Had you got together with your P and discussed this privately rather than discuss it from accross the diamond you may have gained credibility rather than having the appearance of neither knowing whose call it was.

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef

He then proceeds to bang out R2 as he never got back to 3rd base. As you can imagine that small delay of my partner asking me, set the tone for the last 4 innings of the evening. The offensive coach felt it was my call on his diving runner back to third, "that's why your partner went to you....because it was your call"

I tried explaining that I had the appeal if there was one, while my partner had any play on R2. But of course we were wrong in his eyes no matter what and it was our fault his team lost 17-4.

Anything that we could have done differently? I like to get the feedback of fellow men in Blue. Thanks in advance.

2 mistakes that I see and neither by any means fatal.
1. BU should have simply made the call at third, even if they had wanted to appeal R1, BU had the call of R2 at third.
2. When he asked for help you should have discussed it in private then let him come out of conference and bang out R2.

If this is the worse that happens when you have an inexperienced P you're doing good.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Defensive coach doesn't know what he is doing. You cannot call time to make an appeal.

Is it that you CAN'T or that you don't have to?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef

Anything that we could have done differently? I like to get the feedback of fellow men in Blue. Thanks in advance.

Yes, make sure and get paid before the game in cash. This way when the coach whines and cry's during the game you simply have to put your hand in your pocket, feel the cash and smile politely.

It drives them batty.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Is it that you CAN'T or that you don't have to?

Depends on the ruleset. OBR: Cannot. Fed: Do not have to.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Depends on the ruleset. OBR: Cannot. Fed: Do not have to.

I'm sure this game was OBR.
I'm not familiar with this rule in OBR.
I know OBR allows dead ball appeals, so there must be a specific rule that says that if the defense calls time they then lose the right to appeal?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I'm sure this game was OBR.
I'm not familiar with this rule in OBR.
I know OBR allows dead ball appeals, so there must be a specific rule that says that if the defense calls time they then lose the right to appeal?

OBR does not allow any appeals with a dead ball. Only Fed does that and Fed is severely mocked for doing so.

[UmpJM]

Don,

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

...
I know OBR allows dead ball appeals, ...

Huh?!?!

In order for the defense to execute a properly constituted appeal of a 7.10 infraction (in OBR), the ball must be in play. Requesting time does not cause the defense to lose their opportunity to appeal, but the ball must be put back in play before they can appeal.

JM

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Depends on the ruleset. OBR: Cannot. Fed: Do not have to.

This is good timing. I had game on Sunday. Traveling teams. Bronco Level. I'm working the dish. R2, 1 out. Fly ball to F7. R2 takes off but pulls up short of 3rd on the catch. He hustles back to 2nd before the throw to 2nd. Play has relaxed and the coach asks for time. I assume he going to take care of some pitching business and I grant him time but instead he says he wants to appeal that the runner rounded third but didn’t touch 3rd on the way back.

I motioned for him to come over and I told him that he could only appeal that on a live ball and that he can never call time to ask for an appeal. It occurred to me that maybe he has lost the ability to appeal but I was not sure about that so I didn't go there. Once I put the ball back in play, the defense properly appealed and I denied it.

Two questions: Did he lose the ability to appeal the play when he called time?

Do you say anything with your mechanic when upholding or denying appeals?

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Don,



Huh?!?!

In order for the defense to execute a properly constituted appeal of a 7.10 infraction (in OBR), the ball must be in play. Requesting time does not cause the defense to lose their opportunity to appeal, but the ball must be put back in play before they can appeal.

JM

this is one of those slap your forehead "oh yea I knew that" kind of things.
I get so tuned into Fed that I forgot one of the basics.
I definitely misspoke. thanks for clarification.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

Two questions: Did he lose the ability to appeal the play when he called time?

Do you say anything with your mechanic when upholding or denying appeals?

1. No, but the ball must be put back into play before the appeal may be made. I personally will not coach the coach on this during the game but will explain the procedure after the game.

2. I usually do not.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

Two questions: Did he lose the ability to appeal the play when he called time?

Do you say anything with your mechanic when upholding or denying appeals?

A coach can never call time. He can ask for it, and you can grant/deny it. You should not grant it until playing action has ceased. But no, his 'time' call does not invalidate an appeal.

for mechanic, if you uphold the appeal, you can signal out. If you deny the appeal, you can signal safe. Since its a live ball, the runner will want to know his status right away.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It always amuses me when the defense wants to appeal when the ball is still alive, and they tell the pitcher to get on the rubber, then step off, and then appeal, instead of just throwing the ball to the base. And then when the ball is dead, they can't get the concept of putting it back in play before they can appeal. It must be baseball dyslexia.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It always amuses me when the defense wants to appeal when the ball is still alive, and they tell the pitcher to get on the rubber, then step off, and then appeal, instead of just throwing the ball to the base. And then when the ball is dead, they can't get the concept of putting it back in play before they can appeal. It must be baseball dyslexia.

It's one of those myths that have been perpetuated for so long it becomes "reality". I heard it 40 years ago, and I still hear it today.