Pull the trigger?
 

I was working the bases at a freshman game this evening. In the bottom of the first inning, there was a banger at first. I called the runner out, much to the dismay of the home crowd, but the inning was over. I began my walk to shallow right field. As I'm walking, I see the home team manager turn to address the spectators sitting behind his bench. He asks the crowd (loudly enough for me to hear in shallow right): "Is there anyone here besides ths umpire who thinks he was out?"

I didn't think this warranted an ejection at the time, but the more I think about it, the more I don't like that he addressed the spectators. The rule that immediately came to mind is OBR 4.06(a): "No manager/player shall incite, or try to incite, by word or sign a demonstration from the spectators." The penalty here is removal from the game.

Did I miss this one in this situation?

Let me respond in this fashion:

I was working a JUCO game in which the third base coach (not the skipper) grabbed a runner who was getting too big of a lead and pushed him back to third just before a pick-off attempt.

I called interference on the coach.

He then turned to the crowd and announced, loudly, "Oh great. What we have here is an umpire who thinks he's more important than the game."

He left the facility seconds later.

No, your partner did. He should have your back on this one.

Cheap!
 

I wouldn't say you missed anything. You're where you are supposed to be, coach though is walking a tight rope.

Upon hearing this type of comment though, he's on a very short leash the rest of the night.

Now, if you are PU and you had made a call and he's questioning that might be different, but you're in RF.

Make a call from there and everyone will tag you as 'rabbit ears.'

The best thing I've learned from 27+ years if how to make coaches mad when I ignore them. Took a long time to learn, but is priceless now.

Thanks
David

I wonder whether these coaches are aware how "bush" they look to people who know baseball. By such behavior, they are announcing to the world that they are merely dilettantes in the game. Nobody who spent a lot of time on ballfields would ever address the crowd in such a whiney, school-lunchroom-monitor fashion.

They also tip us off that they are pure dabblers when they question rules that are common knowledge even on the sandlot. We don't expect coaches to be experts, but when you hear, "Johnny forgot and missed his at bat, so can he bat now to make up for it?" or "He's out, ump. He threw the bat!" you can't help saying to yourself, "This clown never played ball."

Gee, what would I have done?:D

As described, I believe he wanted the rest of the night off, and I would have obliged him.

Dump him quick.

So essentially, what you are saying is that you are another one of those guys that won't eject in obvious ejection situations? :rolleyes:

Short leash? He!! no. This is an immediate dump, every time, no hesitation. He's practically begging you to toss him. And if you didn't, and I was PU, I would have.

Not even close
 

Edited to add: This is a freshman game - not varsity and I expect the coaches to be stupid.

Not even close. This is not an ejection situation. I'm in right field, what the coach wants to tell the fans is his business.

But it is noted, and if a "so called" coach is that stupid, he'll pay the price sooner or later. :)

See, the coach won't just stop their. He'll say something else later and then everyone will know why he's ejected.

In this situation, for an umpire to come from his spot in RF and eject a coach by the dugout is simply poor game management.

That tells everyone, I can't take it and I'm going to "get this coach".

But by ignoring him and then waiting for the right opportunity, it gives me the upper hand.

Like I said earlier, I guess I just have the reputation and experience to get away with it, what a coach tells me from afar don't affect me.

But it is always "noted".;)

Thanks
David

Exactly, its the PU's job to handle the dugouts.

I'm not coming out of RF to eject a coach in a freshman game.

But in the situation described, he was the BU, not the PU!

Thanks
David

You misunderstand me. This is BU's ejection. But if he fails to assist the manager in his desire to be dumped, I'd be right there.

I'm betting you'd react the same in a varsity game, instead of this "lowly" frosh game. Baseball is baseball, and a high school team's players and coaches at any level do (or should) understand the game. If I can hear it, it was meant for me to hear! Goodby every time! I wont bank the comments, waiting for a more opportune time, it may not come, and all now know that you take abuse, except for that teams next game umpires who might have to deal with it...

Good thing I wasn't working the game. I would have walked up to the stands and asked (just as he did) "Now who thinks other than the coach that he should be tossed from the game?"

If they agree you follow up with "Well at least we agree on something" and toss him. If not "Well you're not going to agree with anything I do" and toss him as well. Showmanship is not always for the coach. :D :eek: :cool: ;)

Although 90% of the time I would dump quick and fast from right field.

No, you wouldn't. Let's not add (detract) from the already-sterling reputation of (some) Canadian umpires here.


Fixed.

Exactly what I was trying to convey. Maybe its just where I've been, but freshman ball is a chance for them to play and the coaches are all "dumb".

You would never have that happen in a varsity game.

I've called with guys who like to eject people. I don't have to eject people to control the games.

But as stated, one size doesn't fit all.

Thansk
DAvid

I'm with David on this one. Sometimes if you act like you have no clue about what was said, they will keep it up and eventually help themselves out of the game.:rolleyes:

David ... there can be no clearer indication that you are wrong than this.

To all - this is a no-brainer automatic ejection. Those proposing saving up your ejection for later are only making life harder for your brethren. There are some situations where ejection is borderline, and I tend to fall on the side of not ejecting and issuing some sort of "That's enough, coach" on most of those. This one is hands-down 100% ejection, no matter what else has occurred in the past. If you don't eject for this ... I find it hard to imagine how far a coach has to go to be shown the door in your game. I would even say that inciting the crowd against you is WORSE than being simply profane and personal to your face.

Oh, thanks, Mike, now you gonna pay for this keyboard? ;)

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times:

If you never eject anyone, you simply have not been doing your job.

Show me an umpire who would not toss a coach for addressing the crowd concerning the umpiring, plus pointing at the umpire while doing so, and I'll show you an extremely weak official.

I would not care to work with an umpire who is afraid or unwilling to eject when warranted by a situation, and this situation is an automatic EJ. This "I just try to get along/don't rock the boat" mentality is the reason coaches come up with that "where's my warning" crap when they get tossed.:mad:

Hey Big Guy and other non-ejectors: I can eject a coach just fine from short right field. I don't need to leave my rest position to accomplish it.

You are right. However there are some coaches I would have love to do that on. Even a couple may have had a good laugh as well.

I used to do an annual tournament where there used to be a coach who would buy the first umpire who tossed him in the tournament a hot dog and pop. He would even meet us in the umpire's room to give it to us and have a good chuckle. The only year he didn't get tossed he came into the umpire's room to see if he won the pot he thought we had going to see who would dump him first. Some managers just lose their cool but overall are great guys.

I don't believe it is a question of liking or disliking ejecting people. I also agree you do not have to eject to be in control. But if a coach says something to incite the crowd that I can hear in short right field, he wants to leave and I will oblige him.

The level of ball is not material, in my opinion.

Don't give me that non-ejectors garbage. I gave my first five ejections at age 15. One to a kid coach who decided to call me a b*****d, and the other four to coaches who thought they could get in my face and I would back down - they lost. The next six years I tossed another 20 - 30. In that first 7 years, I gained a reputation as a good umpire, who was fair, impartial, and firm. But most of all - around the league, they knew I took no sh|t from anybody.

If you want to eject somebody, go ahead. If you're looking for some coach to do one of your automatic ejection offenses, you're doing yourself a disservice by concerning yourself more with the coach's conduct as opposed to the game itself. Sometimes you're better off keeping your mouth shut and your ears open and letting people THINK you're a harda$$, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. You're there to officiate. If the coach wants to make a fool of himself, let him. Spectators will eventually see him for what he is. But for those of us who choose not to in this situation, that is our choice, and you don't have the right to tell us we are wrong, just because we don't adhere to your standards.

I'll give a warning if they're getting close. If they cross it, they're gone - warning or not. I decide when they cross it, nobody else.

Garbage!
 

That's simply garbage. As I stated this is a freshman game - simply a scrub game before varsity.

I'm not concerned with coaches in that type of game.

But to say you have to eject a coach to be a "strong official" - that is simply poor judgement.

I've been calling state playoffs since I was 21 - 4 state championship games. You don't get to that level being a "weak official."

It all comes down to the fact that a freshman (little league) coach hollering to the crowd simply doesn't affect me.

Now if a varsity coach did that - different, but as we have noted, a varsity coach simply ain't gonna play that game.

The reason I keep beating the dead horse is because there are many officials who read this forum and I don't want them to think that the only way to control the game is by ejecting coaches.

I've made my case, and i'm out on this one!

Thanks
David

1) I do not care if this is a 10U game or an NCAA Div. I game, this is an automatic ejection.

2) If the coach yelled it loud enough for the BU to hear in right field then the PU should have heard it from his position near the plate.

3) This is not a case of having rabbit hears. Both umpires should have been giving this coach the thumb before he finished his address to the crowd.

MTD, Sr.

Not THAT stupid....

David,

I know that you're a strong official, but this is automatic. I have no tolerance at lower levels. Of course, I haven't worked a subvarsity game in about 5 years, so I guess my feeling here is purely academic.

--Rich

This sickens me. They're paying you to be a professional. If you're taking their money you owe them your best. Your attitude sucks and I would guess it shows when you're on the field too.

Freshmen or varsity, the players don't care how good you think you are. All they know is that they have a game that day. To them, it's the most important game in the world.

I agree with what many have said here, the level of ball doesn't matter. I'm there to do my job and give it my best and I will be treated with respect. Cross the line and you're gone.

Well I did find ...
 

Rich, like you i've forgotten what its like to work subvarsity, but I know in our area subvarsity is basically a scrimmage.

You know after all of my objections, I went back and checked my notes and sure enough three years ago in a summer league game I ejected a coach for the same thing.

I was PU of course, but close call at third and he objected loudly to the crowd.

He was of course given the escort from the field.

I still don't think I would worry about this in the outfield simply because I might be just hard headed but I take great pride in making coaches mad because they cannot get to me with their insults.

As long as they don't curse, insult my lineage, or call me a homer, I usually don't even acknowledge coaches.

Thanks
David:

Ah, a point needs to be made
 

Men,

I believe there is one point missing from the discussion here.

Depending on the level, which in this case I assume is FED, if the head coach goes, and there is no replacement coach on the field, the game might be over. I'm trying to remember since I have no books with me, but in the state I work in mostly, if there is not a coach, and he gets the boot, the game is over.

In frosh/JV ball, a lot of schools only have one coach. So it might be a case that if you run the guy for his tirade, you are unintentionally cheating the players, they get no game that day, and maybe for a couple more games. I might give someone a little more rope in a lower level game for the sake of the players, but not much.

I guess as well, once of twice in my career, I put up with some bad behavior for one simple reason: If the player wants to get the thumb, I keep him around only becuase it is more painful for him to hang around and be part of getting his team's rear end kicked then to let him leave the scene of the crime. And make sure he gets a zone so big he never smells a pitch to hit.

The other alternative in this case since it was a FED game is to have the PU or BU restrict the coach to the dugout. And it sounds like this would be a perfect situation to use this in. Punish the guy, but not forefit the game. And it puts the coach in his place.

Having said all that, if you think he needs to go immediately for his stupidity, he has sure done enough to eject himself IMO.

In my state this is not one of the 6 things a coach or player could do to get ejected. Ejection requires filling out forms and notifying the state and often results in fines and in some cases coaches losing their jobs.

Restriction to the dugout is required for lesser offenses and do not require forms and fines. It's almost like a technical foul in basketball, because if he does it again from the bench he is ejected, and there are forms to fill, etc. I would certainly restrict the coach if I was either the PU or the BU in this situation. If I was PU I expect I would beat my partner to it since I am closer.

In anything other than HS ball I would eject for comments made to fans like this guy did and if he is the only coach then the game is over and I don't feel like I am cheating the players at all. He did by his behaviour.