Pitcher - backward set position
 

I have a question around ruling on a pitcher coming to a set position. Here is the situation... We have a R1 and a RH pitcher. Pitcher is straddling the rubber. He takes his pivot foot and engages the rubber as he simultaneously comes to his set position. He is set for one second and then delivers his pitch to the plate.

I see it this way and need help...I see in OBR that the pitcher must take his signs from being on the rubber. So now the argument comes is that there are no signs - no infraction(?). What rule am I missing here, because I see this as a definite occurrence of deceiving the runner/batter. It must be a balk. OBR help please.

Thanks,
Jeff

The pitcher must either take the signs from on the rubber or "simulate" taking a sign. That might be the FED terminology, but the purpose remains the same: To keep the pitcher from quick-pitching.

But I'm curious as to the answer from the more experienced members of this board. Taking signs off the rubber in OBR is not penalized a balk, its just a "don't do that". Assuming the pitcher contacting the rubber before bringing the hands together, what, as an umpire, do you do?

Sounds like a balk for a quick-pitch to me... but I'd have to be there.

I wouldn't deem it as a quick pitch if he actually comes set. Let's assume he comes set for three seconds. My issue is with the fundamentals of getting to the set position from off the rubber. It seems like something to deceive, but I don't know how to rule.

If you're doing to micromanage your baseball game it could be considered a balk...that being said, I would never call a balk in this sitch...100% won't agree w/ me on this...but that is reality...don't micromanage your games with being "tic-tack" on rules that disrupt the flow of the game. I would ask the catcher to go tell the pitcher to take his signs on the rubber/get set on the rubber/whatever.

OBR and the Set Position
 

For Eureka 25:

In OBR, the pitcher may start with his hands together and his pivot foot on the rubber. To rule a balk or illegal pitch, you'd have to make a judgement if he took "enough" time remaining in that position before delivering the pitch. If one second, in your opinion, is sufficient, you've got nothing.

As for taking signs from the catcher while in contact with the rubber, no where in any rule book does it define "sign". The fact that the catcher holds his mitt in a particular spot or otherwise indicates where the pitch should be thrown, constitutes a sign. All the rule intends is that the pitcher does something before simply delivering the pitch.

And actually, in OBR it's not just a "don't do that". (taking signs from off the rubber). It's more of a case of "do that" . . . the pitcher should be instructed to take his signs while on the rubber. A pitcher can take signs from anyone and anywhere, including from his Aunt Nellie in Hoboken, when he's not on the rubber; just so long as he takes one from the catcher while in contact with it.

Jerry

Jerry,

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but, no, he may not.

From OBR 8.01(b):

He can't start with his hands together. Not a balk - just a "don't do that".

FWIW, I agree with the rest of what you said.

JM

Rule 8.01(b)
 

JM,
You didn't read the first part of the Rule, JM.

"Before assuming Set Position" (which is defined in 8.01(b)), the pitcher MAY elect (my own emphasis added) to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as "the stretch". But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter." And the explanation then goes on.

The part that you're reading and quoting only refers to the pitcher if he elects to do the optional preliminary motions. In that case, I agree, he'd have to have his hand on his side, etc.

FED rules require what you're saying, but Eureka25 specifically requested OBR information.

Jerry

Jerry,

OBR requires that the pitcher pitching from Set engage the rubber with his hands separated. Says so in the rules, says so in JEA, says so in J/R, says so on the Evans balk video. It has nothing to do with whether the pitcher elects to "stretch" or not.

JM

JM,
You're absolutely right. I keep forgetting that J/R has an entire interpretation book. In there, the use the term "Stretch" to mean the "Set" Position. Furthermore, the "Set" is only that portion of the "Stretch" that refers to the momentary delay before delivering the pitch. My bad.
Jerry

it's also my understanding that J/R is not the official interp book...the PBUC manual is the official interp book...at least that's what Palermo told me last summer...

Interesting seeing as how Palermo is listed as a member of The Joint Committee on Training found in the MLBUM. I'd have thought he'd plug the MLBUM first.


Tim.

not sure BigUmp...I can't read his mind...all I know is that while he was observing the crew that contained Jeff Nelson last year when the Bo Sox played Kansas City in August 2006, I asked him about J/R, he knew about it, then proceeded to pull the "blue book" out of his bag while telling me that this is the official interp book, then we proceeded to talk baseball for 45 minutes...one of the coolest things ever...he took time out of his day to not only be bothered by a complete stranger, but to have the patience to talk with me about baseball and tens of other people who swung by to say hi...what a great guy...

You can buy a PBUC. You can't buy a MLBUM.

Good point, Rich. Capitalism at it's finest!


Tim.