This sent the wrong message.

[PeteBooth]

I disagree with the aforementioned.

In my association just like many others Varsity is scheduled first meaning 2 Umpires ALWAYS and then JV on down. However, s*** happens.

In the case presented, the BU will get paid or I should say should get paid the Varsity FEE since he was scheduled to do a varsity game, so money should not be an issue.

In HS, teams travel and in some instances many miles. So you have 2 JV teams ready to play and say one of the teams traveled some 40 miles or further to play and now you do not want to umpire and basically tell these teams to GO HOME.

I realize this type of situation is an area by area "thing" but if the Home coach approached you I do not see how any Umpire organization would frown on the splitting of duties as was done in this case.
Also, IMO no one is "too good" that he/she cannot do a JV or even a modified game once in a while.

IMO, Nick handled it very well. He did not cause a scene and even though this umpire was reported to the association (which I agree with) he did not "rat him" out either. It was the arrogance and audacity of the BU which were his downfall.

Pete Booth

[JRutledge]

Maybe if we took the attitude that people have the right to do what they want to do considering they are leaving their jobs and families to do so, then we would get rid of the "arrogance" attitude that prevails these websites when people exercise their right. It is my right to decide what I want to do when I take games. Like Jake Plummer, if I do not like the circumstances I am put in, I can quit. Most people this is an extra-curricular activity. No one is getting rich off of officiating and certainly not paying all their bills by the money we make. It is not arrogant for someone to say I did not sign up for this and I choose to pass. Do not give me we are out there for the kids and it is our professional duty. People sacrifice a lot to work any sporting event and I have a lot of choice. Maybe this is why there is a shortage of umpires and officials across the country. I know if the numbers we up around here every game might be assigned with umpires. But because the numbers are so abysmal anyone that umpires can get opportunities they cannot get in other sports.

Peace

[DG]

He signed up with an association that has rules and then did not abide by them when he chose not to work the plate at the JV game. He lost his right to choose when he accepted the game.

Here, all games are assigned 2 officials, JV and Varsity. Occassionally we have two games at same site, JV first and V second, and the officials would work both, but never two games at the the same time at same location. I know of no umpire in our association that would accept this "DH" and arrive and refuse to do the plate game for the JV game because he has a college game the next day.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DG

He signed up with an association that has rules and then did not abide by them when he chose not to work the plate at the JV game. He lost his right to choose when he accepted the game.

Here, all games are assigned 2 officials, JV and Varsity. Occassionally we have two games at same site, JV first and V second, and the officials would work both, but never two games at the the same time at same location. I know of no umpire in our association that would accept this "DH" and arrive and refuse to do the plate game for the JV game because he has a college game the next day.

This is quite a different situation than the original post. If you accept to work a double header with those circumstances, then chances are you know what you are getting yourself into. Unless you are assigned to works the plate on each game, I am sure there are umpires that prefer not to work the plate for various reasons that might not be discussed openly. I bet working something the day after or the day before might be part of that willingness to work the plate at any given time.

Peace

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe if we took the attitude that people have the right to do what they want to do considering they are leaving their jobs and families to do so, then we would get rid of the "arrogance" attitude that prevails these websites when people exercise their right.

There's something that trumps having the right to do what one wants, and that is the expectation that people live up to the agreements they make. If the umpire in question has voluntarily accepted membership in his association, and the association has agreed on a protocol to follow when a game (even a JV game) is uncovered, then that umpire is bound by agreement to honor the protocol.

The arrogance in this situation is not with the posters in this thread; it is with the umpire who breached his agreement with his association because he considered umpiring JV ball to be beneath him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

There's something that trumps having the right to do what one wants, and that is the expectation that people live up to the agreements they make. If the umpire in question has voluntarily accepted membership in his association, and the association has agreed on a protocol to follow when a game (even a JV game) is uncovered, then that umpire is bound by agreement to honor the protocol.

I agree if that is the policy that is in place the umpire has more of an obligation to follow it. But just like anything in life, not all policies are well written or followed. Better yet is this a policy talked about or understood by all members? Is this in the constitution of the organizations? Is this policy on the contract? I trust that Nick is not lying or misrepresenting the story, but there are two sides to any story. And this is a very local issue because this would not be an issue in my state. My state has made it very clear that all contracts assigned are with the school. And if the contract you have with the assignor says you are to work a game at a particular time, the school is responsible for what takes place. In other words I would not have to work a game I was not assigned at any level if it was not on the contract.

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

The arrogance in this situation is not with the posters in this thread; it is with the umpire who breached his agreement with his association because he considered umpiring JV ball to be beneath him.

There my not be arrogance with the posters in the thread. It is arrogant to expect such a policy applies across the board and that everyone would look at this situation the same. Because when I read this originally I was trying to see what the big deal was? I have no problem with an umpire not wanting to work a game they were not assigned. I also would not want to belong to an association that has such a policy. Then again that is my opinion.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My state has made it very clear that all contracts assigned are with the school. And if the contract you have with the assignor says you are to work a game at a particular time, the school is responsible for what takes place. In other words I would not have to work a game I was not assigned at any level if it was not on the contract.

Your statement does not apply throughout the state. Our organization is the assignor for many northwest suburban conferences. We do not have written contracts with the schools although some have now gone to the voucher system for direct payment. However; what governs us is our organization. If we are missing an umpire at the site, we are supposed to call the assignor for direction as far as splitting up. But we are not obligated to do so. If you want to stay in good graces with the assignor, you do it. Nobody ever has a problem with it.

For those who do work under contracts be careful about the wording to make sure there is language about you being an independent contractor. If not, it could be assumed that you were an employee for tax purposes. At our clinics, there are always questions about the topic. Basically what we've been told is that if any agreement has restrictive language that can dictate your actions, you may wind up being considered an employee. I'm not trying to give legal advice because I'm not an attorney - if you're not sure, ask.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Your statement does not apply throughout the state. Our organization is the assignor for many northwest suburban conferences. We do not have written contracts with the schools although some have now gone to the voucher system for direct payment. However; what governs us is our organization. If we are missing an umpire at the site, we are supposed to call the assignor for direction as far as splitting up. But we are not obligated to do so. If you want to stay in good graces with the assignor, you do it. Nobody ever has a problem with it.

For those who do work under contracts be careful about the wording to make sure there is language about you being an independent contractor. If not, it could be assumed that you were an employee for tax purposes. At our clinics, there are always questions about the topic. Basically what we've been told is that if any agreement has restrictive language that can dictate your actions, you may wind up being considered an employee. I'm not trying to give legal advice because I'm not an attorney - if you're not sure, ask.

I am not telling you what your organization says, I am telling you what the IHSA says and what they will do and how they will handle the situation if there is a violation with a contract. Understand that if you are working HS games in Illinois with IHSA Member schools, you are subject to their rules and regulations that may preclude those of a local association. Also remember that most associations are recognized by the IHSA and have to follow IHSA policies or they will not be able to do many things under the IHSA umbrella. This information was stated at a meeting Dave Gannaway had with assignors at the IHSA Official's Convention and he made it very clear what rights the assignors had and did not have as it related to the contracts they make with the schools. Now we also know in reality that may not apply in practice, but if a school wants to hold your feet to the fire or you want to say the contract was violated, it is not the assignors the IHSA will pay attention to in the dispute or fine for that matter.

Peace

[TussAgee11]

I had a similar situation to this - except it was a 15 year old game. The league has two fields, on opposite sides of town. It was playoffs - 4 teams left. The league decided to switch their games around last second, not tell their assignor, and hence we had a field with 2 umpires and a field with no umpires, about 20 mins apart. Via cell phones, the coaches at our field begged one of us to go. He was literally opening up his own wallet, which didn't go over well with me in front of about 100 spectators.

My parnter and I talked, and we figured out that a) neither of us were obligated to go b) didn't want to leave each other stranded (always have 2 umpires around here) and c) both had places to be at night (other game would have started an hour late). We then discussed what we would tell the coaches, he suggested saying that he didn't have his plate gear (which I thought may cause a bit of a stirup), so instead we were truthful with them except for reason c. Of course, the coaches accused us of reason c.

It got so bad that we came back together, and sought out a solution. I went to my car, got my phone, and gave them the assignor's number. We started up our game and the assignor told the coaches, basically, to shove it, it was the leagues fault for not notifying him and he also defended us really strongly for our decision to stay on our field (from what he told me later that night).

Thoughts?

[tribefan1952]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

There's something that trumps having the right to do what one wants, and that is the expectation that people live up to the agreements they make. If the umpire in question has voluntarily accepted membership in his association, and the association has agreed on a protocol to follow when a game (even a JV game) is uncovered, then that umpire is bound by agreement to honor the protocol.

The arrogance in this situation is not with the posters in this thread; it is with the umpire who breached his agreement with his association because he considered umpiring JV ball to be beneath him.

Well said. When he joined the association, he made an agreement. The code of ethics for baseball umpires (2007 NFHS Umpires Manual, pp. 6-7) also has a few things to say about this situation:

1. Honor all contracts regardless of possible inconvenience or financial loss.
7. Give your complete cooperation to the schools you serve and to the state association which you represent.
13. Keep in mind that the game is more important than the wishes of any individual player or the ambitions of any individual umpire.

[heavyd8266]

What I Dont Like Is Calling Games With Fellow Official When The First Thing That Comes Out Of There Mouth Is Who Am I Going To Throw Out Of The Game First. Yes There Are Time When It Is Nesseary But Only When The Time Has Come For You To Do That!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by heavyd8266

What I Dont Like Is Calling Games With Fellow Official When The First Thing That Comes Out Of There Mouth Is Who Am I Going To Throw Out Of The Game First. Yes There Are Time When It Is Nesseary But Only When The Time Has Come For You To Do That!

Please do not type like that. Not only is it very irritating, but actually lowers the readability and legibility of the text.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

Well said. When he joined the association, he made an agreement. The code of ethics for baseball umpires (2007 NFHS Umpires Manual, pp. 6-7) also has a few things to say about this situation:

1. Honor all contracts regardless of possible inconvenience or financial loss.
7. Give your complete cooperation to the schools you serve and to the state association which you represent.
13. Keep in mind that the game is more important than the wishes of any individual player or the ambitions of any individual umpire.

Here is my response to what you just posted.

#1--He honored the contract and showed up. He was assigned a varsity game, not a JV game.

#7--Cooperation with a school does not mean do anything they want. If the school said we want to pay you $20 and the contract says $60, would that be acceptable too? Last time I checked the school does not have the right to take advantage because they make a request.

#13--One again the umpire was scheduled to work a varsity game. His obligation is to that game, not any other game that might be added or requested to do by the official. I guess if the school said we were moving the game a couple of hours earlier, the officials are supposed to just throw out their personal interests because the game was moved.

I think you really you have little understanding of the code of ethics. Officials are not at the beck and call of the schools to do what ever they like. They have the right to make requests, but we have the right to refuse those requests. There is a reason there are contracts to not only protect the schools but to protect the officials as well.

Peace

[tribefan1952]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is my response to what you just posted.

#1--He honored the contract and showed up. He was assigned a varsity game, not a JV game.

#7--Cooperation with a school does not mean do anything they want. If the school said we want to pay you $20 and the contract says $60, would that be acceptable too? Last time I checked the school does not have the right to take advantage because they make a request.

#13--One again the umpire was scheduled to work a varsity game. His obligation is to that game, not any other game that might be added or requested to do by the official. I guess if the school said we were moving the game a couple of hours earlier, the officials are supposed to just throw out their personal interests because the game was moved.

I think you really you have little understanding of the code of ethics. Officials are not at the beck and call of the schools to do what ever they like. They have the right to make requests, but we have the right to refuse those requests. There is a reason there are contracts to not only protect the schools but to protect the officials as well.

Peace

Hmm... You are absolutely right, with one small exception. When he joined the association, he knew their policy. If he didn't want to work under those conditions, he should not have joined that association. I'm not saying the policy is good or bad... personally I don't like it. But he knew that in this particular association, there's a reasonable likelihood that he would be asked to move to a JV game. The question isn't, "Did he have the right to say no?" Of course he did. This is America! The question was whether it was ethical to say no. The answer to that question is debatable.

Moving the game time or changing the pay rate are completely different scenarios.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

Hmm... You are absolutely right, with one small exception. When he joined the association, he knew their policy. If he didn't want to work under those conditions, he should not have joined that association. I'm not saying the policy is good or bad... personally I don't like it. But he knew that in this particular association, there's a reasonable likelihood that he would be asked to move to a JV game. The question isn't, "Did he have the right to say no?" Of course he did. This is America! The question was whether it was ethical to say no. The answer to that question is debatable.

Moving the game time or changing the pay rate are completely different scenarios.

I am glad you know what he knew or not. I for one do not want to debate what he knew. I am simply saying that your reference to the code of ethics is misplaced and has little to do with this particular situation. These references had nothing to do with the willingness to work one level from another level. Also the code of ethics has little or nothing to do with a specific association policy.

Peace