Hung out to dry 2
 

Had a situation the other day. I'm in C postion, men on 1st and 3rd. Short pop-up to left field, down the third base side. Believing the PU has the call I start I start looking for tag ups and watching runners in case ball drops safely. PU tells me between innings I blew it and it should have been my call. I still don't think it was, but what is your opinion? Should I forget runners and go out? BTW, shortstop makes diving catch just inside foul line.

drh898,

In the sitch you describe, the catch/no catch (not to mention fair/foul) call responsibility is emphatically the PU's.

Where did this guy get his mechanics training, from a box of Cracker Jack?

JM

Go out? In 2-man, you NEVER go out when you start inside the diamond.

Why are you even talking to the PU between innings? Get to right field where you belong.

His comment to me was that he had to stay home because of the man on 3rd and since I was in the C position I was closer to the catch than he was. Thanks for your reply because I thought I was right. BTW the offensive coach thought he saw the ball on the ground and questioned the PU about it. That's why the PU came to me bacause he thought I left him out to dry.

Did you discuss this before the game? If this was discussed before the game, at least you know where your partner stood on this coverage. Now by all mechanics I have seen this is clearly the PU's call all the way. But when you discuss this in the pre-game before the game, then he cannot come back to you later and say you blew anything.

Peace

Rich, I might talk to my partner during the game at some point. Granted it will not be every single inning and it might only be once, but it is not out of the question. You might talk to go over something you did not have the chance to during the pre-game.

Peace

Yes, but I won't talk to him after an inning where something like this happens. Any time there's a controversial play, ejection, etc., I'm in right field for the next inning break or two guaranteed.

Thanks, Rich. He called me over to him between innings. Another question. Between innings should the BU stand in right field and not on the foul line by 1st base and up the line to avoid being hit by an errant throw? I had never been told this until Saturday. BTW, if you can't tell this is my first year and I'm having a blast. If I'm in RF where do I stand and what am I looking for?

You have the "U" (or V, or whatevvah), PU has players moving toward foul line to make the catch. This is his catch all the way.

You don't 'go out'. Both you and him need to study your mechanics a little more.

Between innings? GLMs, of course. Its in Chapter Four of your mechanics manual.

Just curious. What level of ball was this?

That I agree with if the next half inning was when the conversation took place. But that was not totally clear to me when I read the post. I even discuss that in the pre-game meeting.

Peace

Pony. I'll check out the mechanics manual again. In first year it is difficult to take it all in and internalize it. Thanks for your comments and constructive criticisim.

If you're using the "Manual For the Two-Umpire System" put out by PBUC, you'll note that BU is in "B" with R1, R3.

As other's have noted, a fly ball to the left of the left fielder belongs to the PU. He apparently was confused when he told you he "couldn't go out." Nobody expects him to. He should line up the ball, keeping R3 in view. Then make the fair/foul, catch/no catch calls and observe R3's tag-up and be ready for a play at home.

And FED mechanics put the BU in C. It doesn't really matter.

Why would a PU ever think of covering a fly ball as going out?

1. He's working OBR based PONY, not FED.

2. How would you know FED mechanics? I thought you threw the umpire manual out when you received it?:D

3. Why a PU would even consider "going out"? Beats the hell out of me. The sad part is it appears that he is put in a position to teach the original poster, a first year umpire. Kudos to the poster for looking for a second opinion.

I just knew that FED put the umpire in C. Actually, I kept this year's manual, thinking it may be the last ever. It appears I'll be able to say the same for my 2006 BRD as well.

B, C, it doesn't matter much with R1+R3. Would you actually change the side you stand on based on the rule set? I know I'm in B all the time in this setup.

I've seen umpires go out from the middle in 2-man. Amazing sight watching umpires randomly chase balls all over the outfield. In many areas of the country, the participants see that as "good hustle" instead of "idiotic umpiring."

Ask you learned elder who has fair/foul responsibility on the play he thought you had the catch/no catch call. Hopefully a lightbulb will illuminate in his head.

I wouldn't change for rule set. We use CCA for everything. I just mentioned the pro mechanics becuase I knew the poster was working PONY.

I've seen a lot of idiotic umpiring being sold as either "hustle" or "preventive umpiring." Funny thing is that some of what was described as preventive umpiring resulted in ejections. (NB:This is not to deny that there really is a time and place for real preventive umpiring.)

I don't know what happend to the 2007 BRD. Supply and demand issue? If Carl worked for the same editor I have, and didn't submit the 2007 edition, he'd have never heard the end of it.

JR, with all due respect, what's to discuss? I'm not going to go over the entire 2-man mechanics manual with my partner when working a 2-man game. Because I work upper level games where my partners are expected to know what to do, I'm not going to have a mechanics clinic before the game. If they don't know and it's a game I assign, they're done with me. If it's one of my other college assignors, I'm sending said assignors a note telling them what happened.

Even when it's "obvious" the umpires could / should communicate who is taking the ball.

Indeed. After all, isn't assumption the mother of all f-ups? ;)

Why do you have to go over the entire manual? But you better go over some basics if you want to be on the same page. Not all umpires are on the same level of knowledge or are used to working with you or me who might do it right.

I also work some college ball and every umpire I work with at that level we go over things. It is not about knowing everything. It is about getting on the same page and not be surprised. Not everyone at the upper level has been there a long time or is taught the same things. I do not like to assume anything.

Peace

Indeed. I always call out, "I got the ball" when I got the ball.

If you stand in RF you will in F9's way. Find a spot in short RF, somewhere out behind F4's position in the outfield 20 or 30 feet. Where you stand is not critical though, as long as you are far enough out there that no coach would come that far to discuss anything with you that might have happened in the last half inning.

I don't cover things like this in a pregame. If a plate umpire doesn't know he has the left field line ALL THE TIME in a 2-umpire system, we have bigger problems than an inadequate pregame.

I cover the "V" and simply say when who has the ball in the "tweener" situation. Some guys like to signal or voice they have the ball. I just want to know what they expect and how we will handle it. I do not work with the same people all the time and work with people of various levels of experience. Not everyone is knowledgeable about mechanics and coverage.

I am talking about it here more than I have to do when working actual games. ;)

Peace