A little help, gentlemen

[BktBallRef]

"In the past week I had three different crews call this play differently and with different reasoning. This happened in Washington High School Baseball, I do not know if that matters or not. I believe that the first is correct, but would like your opinion.

An infielder (a pitcher in all three of my cases-either he was fielding a batted ball or he stepped back off the rubber and tried to pick a runner at first) throws the ball out of play.
Case 1- My batter was already safe at first on the play (on a batted ball), before the ball went out of play. He was awarded 2 bases and ended up on 3rd base.
Case 2- My runner was leading off of 1st base, the pitcher stepped back off the rubber and threw the ball out of play. The umpire awarded 2 bases and my runner ended up on 2nd base. It was explained that since the runner dove back to 1st base that was his 1st awarded base and his 2nd awarded base put him on 2nd base.
Case 3_ My batter was already safe at first on the play (on a batted ball), before the ball went out of play. He is awarded 2 bases and ends up on 2nd base. It was explained to me that the bases are awarded from were the runner was at the time of the throw and since he had not yet reached 1st base (at the time of the throw), 1st base was his 1st awarded base and 2nd base his 2nd awarded base. "

This should be NFHS rules. Thanks!

[UmpJM]

BktBallRef,

#1. It depends where the runner was when the errant throw left the infielder's hand. If the batter had already reached 1B at that point in time (and if any other runners had also reached their advance base) the award is 2 bases from that point in time - i.e., 3B. Otherwise, the award is 2 bases from the time the pitcher initiated his pitching motion - i.e., 2B.

#2. The umpire has demonstrated a lot of potential to become a coach. It makes no difference which way the runner was headed. Two bases beyond his last legally attained base - i.e., 3B.

#3. Sounds like they got this one right - sort of. The point in time that the ball went out of play is not relevant. If the errant throw resulted from the first play by an infielder AND the BR had not reached 1B at the time of the throw, the award is 2 bases Time of Pitch - i.e., 2B for the batter.

JM

(edited to correct typos)

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

#2. The umpire has demonstrated a lot of potential to become a coach.

LOL! (Needless filler so my reply will be long enough.)

[RPatrino]

Dave, long enough for what? And isn't that the ultimate insult..." you ump like a coach, blue" ( Needless filler so my response will be longer then Hensley's).

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Dave, long enough for what? And isn't that the ultimate insult..." you ump like a coach, blue" ( Needless filler so my response will be longer then Hensley's).

Long enough to get posted. The board software doesn't like overly pithy replies.

[RPatrino]

Hey, I'll use that on a coach...." don't get pithy with me, coach!!"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Long enough to get posted. The board software doesn't like overly pithy replies.

Oh?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Long enough to get posted. The board software doesn't like overly pithy replies.

Hmm

[SAump]

Looking at the baserunning awards table in FED rulebook.

5. First throw by an infielder and the ball goes out of play or lodges in or under fence
Award two bases (batter and runners) from base occupied at time of pitch

6. For any subsequent play by an infielder or for any throw by an outfielder and the ball goes out of play or lodges in or under fence
Award two bases (batter and runners) from base occupied at time of throw

Hope it helps.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

"In the past week I had three different crews call this play differently and with different reasoning. This happened in Washington High School Baseball, I do not know if that matters or not. I believe that the first is correct, but would like your opinion.

An infielder (a pitcher in all three of my cases-either he was fielding a batted ball or he stepped back off the rubber and tried to pick a runner at first) throws the ball out of play.
Case 1- My batter was already safe at first on the play (on a batted ball), before the ball went out of play. He was awarded 2 bases and ended up on 3rd base.
Case 2- My runner was leading off of 1st base, the pitcher stepped back off the rubber and threw the ball out of play. The umpire awarded 2 bases and my runner ended up on 2nd base. It was explained that since the runner dove back to 1st base that was his 1st awarded base and his 2nd awarded base put him on 2nd base.
Case 3_ My batter was already safe at first on the play (on a batted ball), before the ball went out of play. He is awarded 2 bases and ends up on 2nd base. It was explained to me that the bases are awarded from were the runner was at the time of the throw and since he had not yet reached 1st base (at the time of the throw), 1st base was his 1st awarded base and 2nd base his 2nd awarded base. "

This should be NFHS rules. Thanks!

Case 1: Unless F1 threw after the BR reached first (and all other runners attained the advance base), the award is 2 bases from the time of the pitch. Second base.

Case 2: The umpire is a moron. 2 bases from the time of the throw. Since F1 stepped off, the award is THIRD.

Case 3: The umpire is right, likely for the wrong reason. First play by an infielder and the BR hadn't reached first, it's time of the pitch. Award second.

As long as guys like this work, I'm a freaking genius.

[jkumpire]

Where do you live? What state are you in? What is the local rate for doing FED games?

Sounds like some of us can go make some $$$ where you are at.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Where do you live? What state are you in? What is the local rate for doing FED games?

Sounds like some of us can go make some $$$ where you are at.

His post said this was "Washington base ball", but his profile says he's in Stedman, NC.

[DG]

Originally Posted by GarthB

His post said this was "Washington base ball", but his profile says he's in Stedman, NC.

Washington, NC is 2 hours 34 minutes from Stedman, NC. A bit far for regular season games though.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Where do you live? What state are you in? What is the local rate for doing FED games?

Sounds like some of us can go make some $$$ where you are at.

BktBallRef isn't a baseball umpire. He officiates football and basketball......and not too badly either, I guess, having been selected to do state high school championship games in both sports. He moderates other discussion boards, including the NFHS forums. The questions that he posts here usually come from these other forums that he moderates; he's just looking for expert opinions from here to back up or disprove answers that he got elsewhere.

Does that answer your questions?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

BktBallRef isn't a baseball umpire. He officiates football and basketball......and not too badly either, I guess, having been selected to do state high school championship games in both sports. He moderates other discussion boards, including the NFHS forums. The questions that he posts here usually come from these other forums that he moderates; he's just looking for expert opinions from here to back up or disprove answers that he got elsewhere.

Does that answer your questions?

expert opinions?? now that's funny! you want opinions...you certainly came to the right place!!