Signs of Rubber

[jkumpire]

Bob,

Over the years I have looked for a case book play or other way to verify that FED does consider this an illegal pitch/balk, since I know of nobody other than BG who would call it.

I beleive our good frined Carl would call it a "technical balk", if I remember the discussion on the old yahoo umpire group years, and years ago (Unpire Talks, I thinlk the name of the group was, before eumpire).

Any info is appreciated

John

[ozzy6900]

Here's a question for you all.

How do you know when F1 is taking signs?
How do you know that the "signs F1 is taking off the rubber are the real signs?
How do you know that when F1 steps on the rubber another sign or set of signs is not being given?

The answer is you don't know. And that is the answer that I give to the complaining coach!

As long as F1 does not step on the rubber and into to a quick pitch, he is not violating anything. OBR and NCAA is a "don't do that". FED says balk but as was previously stated, the pitching restrictions don't start until F1 intentionally contacts the rubber so there cannot be a balk.

Most important, go back and read my first 5 lines of this post!

[SAump]

I had a spectator behind the backstop watching the game curiously walk toward the nearest dugout in a hurry after the opposing coach requested time and pointed out the spectator's position.

I did feel something "dirty" was going on behind my back but I didn't know what to do about it. How was an umpire suppose to eject a quiet, disciplined spectator when an umpire is not suppose to concern himself with what goes on behind the backstop? I still am not sure what penalty I should have imposed. I have showered but the memory of the event lingers.

[SAump]

Warning: This post is not to be taken too seriously. It does review similar discussions we have had over similar topics on this website. Hope you enjoy the memories held from personal thoughts while reading previous discussions. Once again, I couldn't avoid the silly temptation.
---------------------------------

I have trouble with the edges of the strike zone and miss a few balls caught right in front of me when I "purposely" call them strikes. I probably needed those strikes. Has this happened to you and your strike zone?

I can't see where a batter's feet are postioned in front of me while he is swinging at pitch on the outer or upper edges of the strike zone. I probably had an idea though. Has anyone ever questioned you about this?

I can't tell whether a coach is standing in the coach's box when I focus on the pitcher's prepatory motion to the plate. I probably didn't care about that anyway, but I will warn and restrict as deemed necessary. Wouldn't you?

I believe baseball signs are both identifiable (to some) and unidentifiable (to others) flying objects. I couldn't physically prove that, but I also know they do travel though the same medium. I could be wrong.

Yet, some guys here will forever deny they have never, ever seen a rising fastball in one breath; but also admit that they will notice and know what goes on underneath the catcher's "equipment" and also behind the back of their "head" in the next breath.

That seems to be a much more difficult task/trick than throwing a rising fastball. JMOHO. As an amateur physicist, I know human x-ray vision doesn't exist without the aide of technolgy. Speaking of peripheral vision, wearing any mask wouldn't physically allow anyone to see behind them. Can you tell how many fingers I am holding behind my back and which one? I could still be wrong unless I were standing in front of a smoking MIRROR.

My apologies to those troubled by the CAPS. If it is the worse thing you have to read, I will edit and/or delete them.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by SAump

I had a spectator behind the backstop watching the game curiously walk toward the nearest dugout in a hurry after the opposing coach requested time and pointed out the spectator's position.

I did feel something "dirty" was going on behind my back but I didn't know what to do about it. How was an umpire suppose to eject a quiet, disciplined spectator when an umpire is not suppose to concern himself with what goes on behind the backstop? I still am not sure what penalty I should have imposed. I have showered but the memory of the event lingers.

You do nothing about it! Your jurisdiction (unless you are doing MLB or NCAA) ends with the fence. Never, ever take your authority beyond the field's boundaries! We've stated this on this site for years on end!

[justanotherblue]

Just for the h3ll of it.....

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Here's a question for you all.

How do you know when F1 is taking signs?

Because when you in B or C if you look you can see it

How do you know that the "signs F1 is taking off the rubber are the real signs?

Because after I've seen it, F1 steps up and pitches the ball with no further signs from the catcher


How do you know that when F1 steps on the rubber another sign or set of signs is not being given?

See answer #2

The answer is you don't know. And that is the answer that I give to the complaining coach!

The answer is I do know, and I have NEVER had a complaning coach because they don't have a clue and damn sure can't see it! Only in B or C can you see it, and ONLY if your looking for it. You shouldn't be looking for it because it only causes trouble for yourself.

As long as F1 does not step on the rubber and into to a quick pitch, he is not violating anything. OBR and NCAA is a "don't do that". FED says balk but as was previously stated, the pitching restrictions don't start until F1 intentionally contacts the rubber so there cannot be a balk.

This is FEDlandia.... they say it's a balk, obviously you nor I agree with this, just as I believe most would and should ignore it. It's a rule to get your a$$ in trouble!

Yes, but for the sake of stiring the $hit pot, this IS a very VERY stupid FED rule, Why, as I stated before, because there is/was someone on the FED rules committee who doesn't understand pitching or baseball!!.. Now that I have your dander up.... will I ever call it... NO, why..BECAUSE IT IS A RULE THAT ONLY CAUSES $HIT. It's a poor rule and as you stated, if he isn't quick pitching who really cares. NOT ME!!

Most important, go back and read my first 5 lines of this post!

Go back and read mine

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Just for the h3ll of it.....
Go back and read mine

Right, we are saying the same thing. I was addressing some of the others that seem to have ignored your post.

It also seems that you are a bit higher level than HS ball. I just felt that it was necessary to add that in FED, the pitching restrictions (taking signs is one of them) are not in effect until F1 intentionally contacts the rubber. Therefore, the balk penalty for the FED 6-1-1 (FED rule 6-1-1 - He shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate.) is kind of a mute point. How do you penalize F1 for something when he is not restricted yet? It's just another FED mess that has never been straightened out.

Regards

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Just for the h3ll of it.....



Go back and read mine

6-1-1 says that he shall take his sign from the catcher while on the pitcher's plate. It does not say anything, however, about what he's allowed or not allowed to do BEFORE taking the pitcher's plate. You are misinterpreting - both the written word AND the intent of the rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Just for the h3ll of it.....



Go back and read mine

test test test

[bob jenkins]

Yes, I'm having the same problem.

[jkumpire]

kylejt,

Nice shot!

My point still stands. FED tries to write the rules in as simple a manner as possible so anyone can get a handle on the rules and umpire. And while that philosophy is a good one (as an instructor of new umpires IMO FED is easier to teach a newbie umpire than NCAA or OBR), it leads to problerms at times, with this rule as a prime example.

They want to have a time for F1 to be on the rubber before the time of the pitch, or coming set from a strech. Or, in other words, no quick return pitches. And what is the best way to explain it? You see their answer, for good or ill.

[SAump]

For years I would insert a hard plastic cup with rubber edges by itself into a XL jock. I often had trouble inserting and removing the cup while wearing the jock at the same time. I found myself "scratching" in public more often than others and for longer periods of time. I also felt the cup chaffing up my underside when worn over longer periods of time. Now that was an embarassing situation for this XXL old man.

Now I have discovered an easier solution to these problems. First place the cup into an old leftover jock and cut off the leg straps and waistband. Whala, now the cup will slide easily into and out of its correct position in a new jock. No more trouble with quick cup adjustments and far fewer needs to check its position in view of the ladies. The chaffing issue is also addressed. Please check this out for yourself and pass the info along to others. I use to ruin the leg straps on older $7 jocks much too often. Now I even save money because their lifetime usage has lasted much longer than normal.

[BigUmp56]

Place the bong on the floor and back away slowly!


Tim.

[PFISTO]

I sort of remember asking this question to my instructor last year and I believe he had said that there is not any rule against it but if he saw it he would tell the pitcher to stop doing it and if he continued to do it it could lead to an ejection. Now I am assuming that F1 is not stradling the rubber to decieve the runner as that would be a violation as mentioned eairler

[Jerry]

http://www.amateurumpire.com/mech/mech08.htm

The above link has one of the best explanations on the subject that I've ever seen. Scott Ehret's no stranger to baseball rules either.

Jerry