Throw pulls 1st baseman off bag

[Justme]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Justme,

Your logic is faulty when it comes to the way you are interpreting this paragraph.

It is saying force plays when the ball is not dropped or the foot is not pulled are not subject to reversal. It does not mean that unsolicited advice should be given when the ball is dropped or the foot is pulled. It only means that these two types of force plays can be reversed. The umpire who originally had the call must still go to his partner and ask for help.

According to the NCAA rules you posted, there are only 7 situations where unsolicited advice is warranted or even tolerated. Neither a straight dropped ball on a force nor a pulled foot on a force are one of them.

If the umpire did not see the dropped ball because of turning from the play too fast, or was screened from seeing it (he did not see the ball dropped or juggled after a tag or force), then his partner should come to him and correct it. On a straight dropped ball, the umpire must have judged possession, and must seek help on his own.

I believe you're correct, I stand corrected.

BUT, the pulled foot is subject to reversal......

F) Judgment calls, which have traditionally not been subject to reversal include: steal and other tag plays (except if the ball is dropped without the umpire’s knowledge as discussed above); force plays (when the ball is not dropped and foot is not pulled); balls and strikes (other than check swings). This practice shall continue. Also, some calls cannot be reversed without creating larger problems. An example is a “catch/no catch” with multiple runners.
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[UmpJM]

Justme,

BUT, the pulled foot is subject to reversal......

I believe you are correct that the text you quoted does say this, and I stand corrected.

Rcichon,

I didn't mean to suggest that my partner was in any way upset with me or I with him in this situation. He simply let me know that he had something for me if I wanted it - with the way everybody reacted to my call, it became obvious to me that I had missed something. So I did want to know what he saw. He just told me what he saw and left it to me to decide whether or not to reverse the call - as I believe is proper.

This particular individual has been immensely helpful to me in getting started umpiring.

While I agree that the PU in this situation should be watching for a swipe tag, the fact of the matter is that it was my responsibility to make the call, and I screwed the pooch because I didn't do it right. Specifically, I

1. Failed to adjust my eyes to the ball (in the F3's glove) as the action continued to develop after I saw the pulled foot

and

2. Failed to make the minor adjustment in my angle of view to the play to clear the screening effect of F3's body.

I think my "distance" was about right - roughly 15' from the play.

I believe (hope?) that if I were to have the same play occur today, I would do these things correctly and make the right call initially or, if I were unable to "clear the screen", at least know that I did not have sufficient information to make the call and go to my partner for help before making a call - as LMan suggests.

In this case, my problem was that at the instant I made the call, I was 100% confident that I had made the correct call and it didn't even occur to me that I might have missed something. I quickly became disabused of that notion.

Steve,

I think you give coaches way too much credit, and place too much value on their opinions.

Now just a Gol' Darn Minute!! Coaches don't get HALF the respect they deserve!!! And a lot of coaches have some VERY valuable opinions!!!! Why just the other day...

Oh.... Wait a minute.... Never mind. (Sometimes I forget that I've crossed over to the dark side.)

When I was coaching, I would on rare occasions go to talk to an umpire when I felt that he had missed one of these "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" situations. I would generally only do this when it looked pretty obvious to me that he had missed the call. I would ask him if he would mind checking with his partner because I had seen the play differently & his partner might have had a better angle.

Now I really didn't expect him to reverse his call in these situations. Sometimes the umpire would check with his partner, sometimes he wouldn't. (I think in 12 years of coaching, I got exactly one of these types of calls reversed.) I never made a big deal out of it and I didn't start acting like a jerk because of it. I did want the umpire to know that I was watching closely and that I thought he had missed the call. To me, that was part of my job in managing the team.

JM

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Now just a Gol' Darn Minute!! Coaches don't get HALF the respect they deserve!!! And a lot of coaches have some VERY valuable opinions!!!! Why just the other day...

Oh.... Wait a minute.... Never mind. (Sometimes I forget that I've crossed over to the dark side.)

JM

I believe some of us would say that you've crossed over from the dark side.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

I believe some of us would say that you've crossed over from the dark side.

"Now, *cough* Mr Blue....pull my lineup card and stopwatch from me....I want to see the rulebook with my own eyes...."

"I cant do that, JM, you'll die as a coach"

"Nothing can stop that now......."

"NO..Ive got to save you"

"Mr Blue....you already have....."