Throw pulls 1st baseman off bag

[Tim C]

If an umpire calls "OUT!" that means he has seen the play. You don't call phantom outs.

Umpires have to have "some" ability to umpire. Pretty simple.

If the BU asks before the call OR the call is safe a PU can give help (if asked). If the call is "OUT!" then there is no help to be given.

Make that an 'Old Timer" or "Bullheaded" decision, it is simply correct.

But actually I get my calls.

Regards,

[David B]

Originally Posted by Tim C

If an umpire calls "OUT!" that means he has seen the play. You don't call phantom outs.

Umpires have to have "some" ability to umpire. Pretty simple.

If the BU asks before the call OR the call is safe a PU can give help (if asked). If the call is "OUT!" then there is no help to be given.

Make that an 'Old Timer" or "Bullheaded" decision, it is simply correct.

But actually I get my calls.

Regards,

The BU gets in position to make the call, and if any question - then ask!

Once you call out, then he's out!

I'm as PU headed back to the plate.

Who cares what the coach thinks - he's not an umpire.

Thanks
David

[Durham]

Originally Posted by David B

The BU gets in position to make the call, and if any question - then ask!

Once you call out, then he's out!

I'm as PU headed back to the plate.

Who cares what the coach thinks - he's not an umpire.

Thanks
David

While David's and Tim's advice is good for a majority of the plays at first. It is still acceptable to get help and change a call if you feel you need to even after an out call.

[Rich Ives]

The difference between baseball and every other sports is that it is the only sport that allows a coach to come out and potentially argue ever play.

They argue in other sports just as much. The difference is that the officials are close enough to the coach that "coming out" isn't necessary.

Football has it the worst because there is an official right on the sideline so the coach can get right in his face.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The difference between baseball and every other sports is that it is the only sport that allows a coach to come out and potentially argue ever play.

They argue in other sports just as much. The difference is that the officials are close enough to the coach that "coming out" isn't necessary.

Football has it the worst because there is an official right on the sideline so the coach can get right in his face.

I agree! I do a lot of indoor soccer! Talk about complaining! It is further a lot harder than baseball because in indoor soccer, outdoor soccer, and basketball, you can have two VERY different styles of play (and since the play is dynamic, you have to allow the styles!). Often, you will have a team that is aggressive, the type of play where they challenge every ball, do a lot of hands on contact like hand checking, minor bumps slightly after a ball is kicked away. Then you have a team that tends to play a bit more cleaner style. When these two teams compete, you can have a tough day on your hands! Are you going to allow the aggressive team play their style as long as they don't start altering play by taking advantage of the contact, or are you going make that aggressive team play a clean game like their opponent? It is a VERY tough decision to make!!! Let the aggressive team play and the clean team complains. Call a clean game and the aggressive team complains.

Yes, I could call these soft fouls all day long, but don't because it would slow the game down and make it ugly. My job is to make sure that these trifling fouls don't put the offended team at a disadvantage in play. Usually, it doesn't, it is just sort of annoying to the offended players. Now, my job is to mediate; to explain to the offended team that I will not let it go any farther than that and keep my word. Usually, this is enough to keep everybody happy.

But complain they do! It has to be handled in soccer/basketball just like it is in baseball. You ignore a little, you give them looks, then you ask them to stop, then you warn, then you eject. Simple enough.

All the time in soccer, team captains approach me for a clarification about a call. They are not per se challenging my judgment, but rather trying to inquire about what the call was and why. Sometimes, they are in a heightened emotional state when they do so. Again, I handle them the same as in baseball. Certainly in soccer, I do not let any person continue to question my judgment calls! That is dissent in soccer. The first offense is a yellow card, the second is an ejection because of the second yellow card. About the same as in baseball!

I give far more verbal warnings in soccer than baseball! The game is different in that more players are involved in situations that offend them, or where they have offended.

Anyway, baseball really isn't that much different than other sports concerning coaches/players arguing/questioning calls, and I think the basics for dealing with these situations is fairly similar between many sports.

Concerning the topic.

Make sure you cover this in your pre-game for sure!

I recently did a game where we didn't, and there was swipe tag on a bad throw at first. At the time, I thought I was 100% that he didn't get a tag and safed him. Of course the defensive coach came out. I didn't go for help (heck yes, I most certainly should have!!! ) and I had no idea if my partner had anything for me because we didn't agree to a signal. Again, I was at the time, 100% sure of my call, but in hindsite, I was only 95% (I didn't see a tag, but I didn't see him not tag either!), and my partner says he got the tag on.

Live and learn I suppose. It was a blow out game and didn't hurt the team, but in a close game, that could have been a game changing mistake on my part. What harm would it have been to ask for help after play was over? None, and it would have made the Head Coach happy. But aside from that, it is just the right thing to do.

On the other end, what can you do? In a close game, in a game changing situation, I think I would say to my partner "Bob, can we talk for a moment" then give him what I got unsolicited. In a blow out, maybe I would stay out of it until he comes to me. It is a tough call. Certainly though, it is your partners call all the way to stay with or change.

[Tim C]

"While David's and Tim's advice is good for a majority of the plays at first. It is still acceptable to get help and change a call if you feel you need to even after an out call."

Rather than turn this into the standard eumpire.com pissing contest I will state the following:

Durham has developed a nice body of work. The work represents the "new age" concept of umpiring. While I disagree as strongly as possible with Durham's position I certainly support his right to state it.

Psst, don't go for help when you call a guy out! Period!
Regards,