Flag placement
 

Was thinking of putting American flag on my new shirts and jackets. Anyone know the edict and placement? Association doesn’t seem to have a policy.

It varies by association / state.

if you have no standard then...

I would put them on the back of the collar, looks much more professional then on the sleeve. I believe that is more commly accepted, as MiLB does it that way, and so did MLB back in 2001.

Just my $.02

If you put them on a sleeve, make sure the flag is facing in the correct direction.

Our association mandates them (well not really mandates, because of the 1st amendment, you have the right not to wear it, but everybody does since its widely accepted) 2 inches down on the left sleeve. We use the flags that have yellow around them, make sure wherever you put it on that you use the color thread of the patch, and not the shirt.

ive always wondered...what is the correct direction? im on the younger end of the user-base of the site and have never really heard.

i believe the convention is to have stars forward, so on the right sleeve you would want to have the stars on right when looking at it, and on the left when looking at a flag patch on the left sleeve. could be wrong though, and im not sure where i got that from.


also, i dont wear any flag patches on my shirts. if my association made it a requirement, id get one in the required area. if i felt like getting flags and it fit into our association guidelines but placement was up to me, id go in the middle of the upper back, like MiLB does.

That's correct.

To be safe, the original poster could put one on each sleeve, one on the pocket ond one on the back under the collar.

there really is no "correct direction" I've seen it both ways, and not just on Umps...No laws or anything stating the direction, but the PC direction is the reveresed one for the right sleeve.

http://www.rangerjoes.com/images/1146.jpg

Just another one of those things its up to the individual organizations.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rfstuart8...s/umpire_4.jpg

UmpDan is correct. In fact, if you want to get technical, we should not wear a flag patch at all. The US Flag Code (36 USC 176) states: (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations...

That said, it has become an "accepted" practice to display the flag on athletic uniforms. The flag should be displayed with the union on the flag's own right (the viewer's left) as worn by UmpDan in his picture. The flag is actually affixed in reverse on military uniforms when worn on the right sleeve and the union is displayed on the flag's own left (the viewer's right). Military uniforms are unique since the placement of the union on the flag's own left gives the appearance of the flag "flying" as the troops rush into battle.

I know this is not the issue, but if you re going to wear a blue shirt, please wear blue ball bags. If you can't get your uniform colors right, the direction of the flag doesn't really matter.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/faqs/q60.htm

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/faqs/q57.htm

black ball bags dont really go with a navy shirt, or powder shirt, or anything that is navy-based.

a belt is an accessory. you should match the ball bags to the base color of your shirt. navy ball bags with navy, powder, red shirts. black ball bags with black, cream, MLB blue.
at least thats what i and nearly every other person ive ever seen does. do whatever you want though.

You are absolutely correct if you are getting dressed to go out to a party. Your shoes should match your purse (and don't forget it is tacky to wear white shoes at night after Labor Day). However, in baseball, your ball bags should match the darkest color in your shirt, and your hat should match your ball bags.

Please let us know when (or if) you work anything higher than LL.

If those really were the fashion rules, then how did the uniform and accessory makers come up with gray ballbags?

The same way they came up with black leather ball bags....someone at the lower levels of baseball will buy them. How many umpires at the upper levels of amateur baseball and in any level of professional baseball wear gray bags?

Dear Carson:
 

My this thread has taken an unbelievable turn . . .

Someone with the moniker of "BigTex" giving fashion advice.

Tex, please lead me to the document that gives this direction.

We seem to get the strangest sorts during the slow time of the off season.

Regards,

While I am not worried about the leather bags becoming a standard at upper levels, I have seen plenty of NCAA Division 1 umpires wearing gray ball bags, as well as many HS umpires. And, I do remember seeing Bob Engel and Dutch Rennert both wear gray ball bags before.

Gray ball bags have traditionally been offered by all the major suppliers, right alongside the black and navy pro-style ball pockets. They have not been promoted separately as a novelty item such as the Honig's leather ball bags have been.

Equating gray ballbags with leather ballbags is ludicrous. The fact is in umpiring groups past and present who use the traditional navy shirt, gray ballbags were and are perfectly acceptable. And that goes for every level up to and including MLB.

Let me stand corrected. My research has shown that up until the 2006 season, the gray ball bags were acceptable with a blue shirt at the NCAA level. However, I have never worn gray, and cannot remember anyone at the NCAA level and above wearing them. I asked a question that was not answered....How many guys have you seen wearing gray bags at upper levels of the game? Dave says that Gray is acceptable at the MLB level, has anyone seen an umpire at the MLB level wearing gray (in the last 15 years)?

I still stand by my original statement that you should not wear black bags with a blue shirt, and vice-versa.

I said when navy shirts were being worn, gray ballbags were worn with them, and that includes MLB. Now, we all know that navy shirts are no longer worn by MLB umpires; they presently wear black or light blue shirts, and they wear black ballbags with both of those colors.

If varsity high school qualifies with you as an "upper level of the game," then I can attest that gray ballbags are still being worn, with navy shirts, at upper levels.

I don't disagree with that statement, but your original statement was much broader than that, setting out a comprehensive set of "rules" for what color ballbag to wear depending on what color shirt was being worn. I simply pointed out that your comprehensive rules excluded gray ballbags which are appropriately worn with navy shirts, irrespective of level.

Considering Honig's took them out of their Spring 07 catalog, the leather ball bags werent a hit AT ANY LEVEL.

I put my flags on the leading edge of my black, fabric ball bags.

The ones you wear with your blue shirt?

Now you changed it to the last 15 years at the last minute here. I answered the question, but it was more than 15 years ago.

Big:
 

I suggest you go to the MiLB webpage.

Check their banner at the top . . . when it shows a "PU" (from neck down) he is wearing grey ball bags.

Of course this may not be high enough level of ball for your determination.

Regards,

I try to wear navy blue ball bags when I'm wearing a navy shirt. But there have been times when I've grabbed the wrong ball bags and wore black with a navy shirt while working a game or two. Guess what, the game went on as if there wasn't a difference and the fashion police never showed. Imagine that.


Tim.

No, the ones I wear under my plate coat.

You are all a bunch of no class, fashion sissies! :p

I wear the red ball bags that I got from Gerry Davis sports all the time. Even under my plate coat! I wear a blue one in the front so I can put my seeds in it. I am buying a leather ball bag before the season starts and that I will be putting in the back so I have something in case I have to go! :eek:

You mean you don't own some of those lovely two-color bags ?!?!?! :eek:

Naw! What do you think I am, a cheap slut? :D

Why that's outrageous! I would never call you cheap!!!:)

At least in my case, I wouldn't have to worry about the direction: symettricality rules! :)

Andrew (#40)
http://www.cbc.ca/cestlavie/images/canada_flag.gif

Or the very symmetrical flag of the French military:

http://www.worldpeace.no/filer/White-Flag.jpg

Hilarious!!! :D

Ahhh, France. They're always there when they need us. :rolleyes:

Symbolic of their worth.. in recent days.

They laid it out flat at the Sugar Bowl tonight so I guess the Flag Rules are not well known or simply ignored.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/faqs/q07.htm

I umpired in the minor leagues (not as a replacement, either). I wore black ball bags my entire minor league career. Being in the minors, that obviously meant I wore them with a navy pullover shirt.

As an aside, a brief viewing of the pictures at:

http://www.umpirepictures.com/

showed that some of the IL umpires last season wore a black ball bag with their navy shirt, and some wore blue.

Also, I was never deducted on any evaluation for wearing black ball bags.

Simply put, you are 100% incorrect in stating that black ball bags are innappropriate with a navy shirt. Quite the opposite, the black bag was the bag of choice for many MiLB umpires.

What is this signal used for? Is it to remind the PU he has the tag up of R3?


http://www.umpirepictures.com/Pictur...07_6%20093.jpg


Tim.

I'm sure that this is a picture of that crew reminding one another of the first-to-third rotation as you suggested. I don't know how many runners are on base...but it does appear that U1 is in "B"...so the runners are either at first or first and third...which means the PU could rotate to third.

I believe the IL umpire being referred to wearing black bags is Lance Barksdale. If I am not mistaken, he is an MLB alternate or reserve or whatever they call it. That could be the reason for the black bags, i dont know, just my blind stab at it...

The reason is because that color is his personal preference. At the time of the picture Barksdale was, indeed, a MLB reserve umpire. He's now the #1 umpire on the current permanent MLB roster (alphabetically speaking, of course).

When I was on the Air Force honor guard we routinely carried the flag horizontally just before folding it.

As a general rule, the union (stars with blue background) of your flag patch should be worn closest to your heart, if you choose to wear one. That being said, it is technically improper to wear a US flag patch on an umpire's shirt as it is a violation of the United States Flag Code. If you wear one anyway, the best place is probably on the front of your shirt, with the union closest to your sternum. It is also okay to wear it on one shirt sleve, a couple of inches from the shoulder seam. If you chose to do this, make sure the union is pointing forward. The picture of the umpire with the black ball bag demonstrates how not to wear a flag patch. (You may have to do a little searching for the proper patch if you want to wear it on your right sleve.) The patch should NEVER be worn on the back of the shirt. (I was very disappointed with the MLB's patch placement following 9-11.) When in doubt as to proper flag display, contact a representative of your local VFW or American Legion.

If it's worn on the front of your shirt the union should always be to the left as you're looking at the flag. The only time the union goes to the right is on sleeves and vehicles/aircraft.

Thanks for the info
 

:( Many are disappointed with the MILBumps' ratty behavior on this website. Add this error to the top of a very long list of well documented misconduct last spring.

I think that we (athletes and officials) get away with wearing flags because we can say that we are wearing replicas of the flag, and not actual flags, since they are usually on a one-sided patch...that is my guess...

The ECAC prescribes "no flags" for its umpires. I don't know whether this is purely for cosmetic considerations or out of fear of offending somebody who hates America. (Before I knew this, I wore a flag on my left sleeve and nobody ever said anything. Interestingly, I find that many ECAC officials are unaware of the proscription.)

A flag on the cap is part of the ASA and NSA uniform. Both flags are on the left side of the cap, with the blue field on the left. The NSA flag is wavy, though, while the ASA flag is straight.

In last year's NJ Babe Ruth tournament, they decorated the fences with bunting, but they had the red on the outside and the blue inside, the opposite of customary display.

I live near the college town of Princeton, NJ, and deliberately display flag decals on my car just to annoy the many lefties in the area (and I don't mean southpaws).

In at least one city, men whose culture requires the wearing of a turban are claiming that the rule that police officers must wear a cap discriminates against them. If these guys become umpires, All-Star is going to have to figure out how to make a combination turban-helmet.

Perhaps Honigs will make a patent leather turbin.

This offends me, because it disrespects people like my nephew, whose Navy pilot's callsign was "Lefty" and who is currently in Baghdad, Iraq, on loan to the U.S. Army because of a shortage of officers, fighting to defend your right to call him unpatriotic because your political views disagree with his.

This offends me, because it disrespects people like my nephew, whose Navy pilot's callsign was "Lefty" and who is currently in Baghdad, Iraq, on loan to the U.S. Army because of a shortage of officers, fighting to defend your right to call him unpatriotic because your political views disagree with his.

At first I thought you were being facetious in your post, Dave, but since I'm not absolutely sure, I will state my views in plain English, with no sarcasm, no irony, no attempts at humor.

I am 100% behind our troops, and I support what they are doing. The "lefties" I like to annoy are the many local left-wing intellectuals who hate the American flag and complain when the town flies flags on Independence Day, who loudly and proudly proclaim that the American flag stands for war and imperialism and stealing oil and oppressing people. The "lefties" I'm talking about are the people who, when the twin towers went down, filled the local papers with letters about how we had it coming because we had somehow offended "them." To me, the people who fight for America are patriotic. The people who want to undermine their effort are traitors. Any Navy pilot in Iraq is OK by me, whatever his political views.

I would never tar anyone with the label "unpatriotic" simply for being against the war or for disagreeing with me. I would label as unpatriotic the people who live here and take advantage of our liberty and then blame America for all the ills of the world.

And around here, there are plenty of such people. Some of them even make a point of remaining seated when the national anthem is played.

Could you provide some published quotes or links to news stories that identify and quote these people as saying these things? Every time I try to research such references I discover that the boogeymen are mostly figments of overly partisan imaginations, the kind of imaginations that cause their owners to say things like "you're either with us (the current administration and its policies) or you're with the terrorists."

Again, I'd sure like to see some substantiation for claims that these "lefties" "filled the local papers with letters" making the claims you state. Personally, my vivid recollection of the most newsworthy such whining from the "blame America first" crowd, if you will, came not from the left but from those bastions of American conservatism - Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell:

The truth is both the left and the right have a few nutjobs on the extremes, and it is unfair and disrespectful to ascribe their extreme views to anyone other than those SPECIFIC few. "Lefties" and "liberals" are labels that have been used by the partisan rightwingers who have, until very recently, controlled the entire federal government, as well as much of the broadcast and publishing media, for the purposes of polarizing and demonizing political opponents and equating them with terrorists and nations adversarial to the United States.

That mindset and attitude has really worked out well for us, hasn't it?

Then why don't you dust off that old conservative battlecry "America - Love it or Leave it!" I'm old enough to remember where that cliche originated - with the rightwingers trying to quash criticism of Richard Nixon's administration of the Vietnam war.

If you truly do not wish to incite offense and adversity from people like me and my LEFTY nephew in your public postings, perhaps you might reconsider painting with such a broad stroke. Just a suggestion; you are, of course, free to speak your mind and ignore my opinion, as you see fit.

Correct. That is what I said. The union (stars) should be closest to the sternum (center of the chest).

Could you provide some published quotes or links to news stories that identify and quote these people as saying these things? Every time I try to research such references I discover that the boogeymen are mostly figments of overly partisan imaginations, the kind of imaginations that cause their owners to say things like "you're either with us (the current administration and its policies) or you're with the terrorists."

Start your search with the names Ward Churchill (see "Little Eichmanns") and Ted Turner (see "I wasn't sure which side I was on"). There are college professors now teaching that the U.S. government itself staged the entire 911 incident. The instances are not hard to find.

I'd sure like to see some substantiation for claims that these "lefties" "filled the local papers with letters" making the claims you state.

I don't save the local papers, but I'll start cutting out letters for you. Maybe they'll publish another one from the woman who wrote in last year about how she couldn't sleep at night because at her daughter's graduation, they asked everyone to stand up as the seniors entered the auditorium. So she stood up with everyone else but was then horrified to hear the national anthem begin. She didn't feel comfortable sitting down at that point, but forced herself to stand through the Star-Spangled Banner and has felt guilty ever since. Somehow I doubt that your nephew and that woman have much in common. I doubt that your Navy pilot nephew would be offended by the flag on my vehicle.

rightwingers who have, until very recently, controlled the entire federal government, as well as much of the broadcast and publishing media

The entire federal government? How many of the 100 senators would you have labeled as right wingers? And the media? Right-wing outlets like the NY Times, the LA Times, CBS News, ABC News, NBC News, CNN, Time, Newsweek? Over ninety percent of reporters are self-described liberals. Better inform them they're working for the enemy.

Then why don't you dust off that old conservative battlecry "America - Love it or Leave it!" I'm old enough to remember where that cliche originated - with the rightwingers trying to quash criticism of Richard Nixon's administration of the Vietnam war.

You're not going to get away with that one. There were patriotic Americans who opposed the war in Vietnam, and there are patriotic Americans who oppose the war in Iraq. And most liberals I know are dedicated patriots as well. But to the people who proclaim that America is the villain on the world stage—the people who complain to the town when it puts up flags on July 4—I would respond, "Then what are you doing here?" And I will continue to fly the American flag and hope they're offended.

I must be older than you, because I remember "America—Love It or Leave It" bumper stickers several years before Nixon was president.

I do agree that there are nutjobs on left and right. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. took a page from the Falwell/Robertson book when he declared that Hurricane Katrina hit part of Mississippi because Trent Lott had praised Strom Thurmond.

An afterthought: Dave was offended because he thought that, by using the term lefties, I was lumping his nephew in with some extremists. Judging by the politics of the military guys I know, an ideology that would cause someone in the military to adopt or be tagged with "Lefty" as a humorous sobriquet would probably actually fall somewhere in the middle of the American political spectrum. Such an ideology would have nothing whatsoever to do with the people I'm talking about—the small minority of America-haters who tend to congregate in university settings.

I'm with greymule 100%. If these people who complain about America so much don't like it, why do they continue to choose to live here?

Alec Baldwin said he was going to move out of the U.S. if George Bush became the president, but I see he is still here, trying desperately to be funny on show after show. He is the only actor on 30 Rock that isn't funny, unfortunately.