Pain in th a-- coach

[Robert G]

Just finished a LL game I was behind the plate.
Had a real sour puss coach even before the game started.
At the pre game meeting I said we will give the pitcher a warning if he balks & then start to call it. I said if he balks & then throws wild to first the ball is alive. Well he went out to get the rule book.
During the game one of his players sqared to bunt & left the bat over the plate but did not attempt to bunt. I called it a ball, & out went MR. grumpy.
On almost every call that did not go his way he was there. I know it is part of the game but he was just nasty.
When the time limit was about to expire I said this is the last batter.Of coarse he said why? And pulled his team from the field. I said not until the batter has finished his at bat, & made him put his team back on the field.
I guess the reason I am telling you this is it is the first time I really had trouble with a coach.
Can't wait for the next game.

Robert G

[Phil Vivenzio]

Why did you let him question evry close call. I would have warned him that we will not be discussing every call. If it continued, i would have run him. My guess is that if you ran him , the game would have been more pleasurable.

Regards
Phil

[devilsadvocate]

Thank goodness that I don't know the "tradition" of a coach questioning calls and mouthing off. I know it happens, but I don't except it. Geez, whatever happened to just being nice to people.

[umpirefour]

Some people wake up every morning and just need to be dumped. LL rules are very clear about the sportsmanship of the game at their level. Really a no brainer - just dump them. It will get worse at higher levels if you don't control it. I control all my games at the plate meeting - ground rules are covered and what I will or will not accept behaviorwise from the managers and/or teams. Tell them that this is their warning. Make sure you follow through with your thoughts at the plate meeting. I don't normally recommend this - the next game you do with this guy, let him know that you were unhappy with his previous behavior and it will not be accepted this time. Normally I try not to bring up past game situations, but this guy is ruining the game for the kids and you. Remember the new LL motto at least in my opinion: Zero Pay - Zero Tolerance!!

[JJ]

I did a Big Ten series at Indiana this year (vs. Purdue), and in Game 1 on Friday we had two pitchers who couldn't find the plate, so the coaches were on the plate guy whining most of the game. Saturday I had the plate for Game 1 of the DH, and I said, "If everyone is square on the ground rules, I have one request...could we have a little less s**t than we did yestereday?" After some wide eyes and a pregnant pause, the Indiana coach said, "You didn't hear anything from our players, did you?". I replied, "No, it was coming from you two, and it was uncalled for!".

They were so surprised they said NOTHING in EITHER game. Of course, my plate job was 2-1, and game 2 was 1-0. We had pitching, so they said nothing. Or I called 'em, and they said nothing. Either way, we had a quiet afternoon. One of the rookie umpires said, "I hope I'm in the league long enough to talk to them like that". I said, "They'll either take it to heart or they'll fire me...either way we had a good doubleheader".

It's hard to look good in a bad game, and sometimes you just have to tell 'em what's on your mind. BTW..that's the first time I've ever phrased my concerns in that manner...timing was right...

GBA

[Alligator Bag]

Robert, if you were working LL game, why are you calling balks. You can't balk in LL. I am also of the thinking that less said at pregame concerning HOW you call something can keep you out of trouble.

[BJ Moose]

Today's Tip: Stop talking so much in your plate meeting (I assume that was what you meant... a pregame is between you and your partner). Don't come up with a "rule dujour".. like that goofy live ball balk rule. What does this have to do with starting the game?

Originally posted by Robert G

At the pre game meeting I said we will give the pitcher a warning if he balks & then start to call it. I said if he balks & then throws wild to first the ball is alive. Well he went out to get the rule book.
Robert G

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Robert G

Just finished a LL game I was behind the plate.
Had a real sour puss coach even before the game started.
At the pre game meeting I said we will give the pitcher a warning if he balks & then start to call it. I said if he balks & then throws wild to first the ball is alive.

You said LL, so I'll assume at least Jr.'s and above as in the 12 and under groups there are no Balks.

When you say you are going to give a warning, that's exactly what it is a warning. You either call the entire rule or you don't call it at all - it's not 50-50.

If you are going to give a warning, as soon as you see F1 Balk - It's TIME - Immediate Dead Ball. Explain to F1 and the coach - that's your Balk warning - end of story.

I know in OBR a balk is a delayed dead ball but we are talking about a warning here and not enforcing the entire rule.

As far as everything else goes, IMO you allowed the coach to question to much. A common technique is to take out your line-up card, or something similar where it's just you and the coach and explain to him, coach you had your say that's it or you can watch the game from the parking lot.

Normally, this approach gets the coaches attention - it's not done in front of everybody so you are not embarassing him or her. At this point they either get the message or go home - it's their choice.

Pete Booth

[Ranger]

At least a small part of the umpire mission is to be a teacher. A lot of suggeastions have been made on this topic, and some are quite good. More experience in coach/umpire confrontations will help develop better results. But let us not forget that lower level coaches are usually volunteers with little or no experience or knowledge of the rules. Care must be taken by the umpire to not appear to take sides, but the umpire needs to be alert to teaching coaches certain basic rules which includes appropriate conduct and behavior.

Set very high standards with respect to coach confrontations and on field conduct. Minimize their on the field discussions. Make this standard quite clear as limits are set by the umpire. Eject the hostile coaches that choose not to accept your leadership.

This approach not only pays great dividends for the conduct and civility of that game, it has the added benefit of potential improvement of their next game, even if another new umpire should show up. Ultimately you are doing the league and parents a big favor as well.

[Rog]

"Hey Coach, your going to have the time to get caught up on your wife's -Honey Do- list if you keep it up!"

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by Robert G
At the pre game meeting I said we will give the pitcher a warning if he balks & then start to call it. I said if he balks & then throws wild to first the ball is alive. Well he went out to get the rule book.

First of all, I didn't think you had balks in LL. But I don't know much about LL rules. In any case, in all set of rules that allow balks, I have never heard any discussion of warnings.

So, if this coach went to get his rule book in order to check this - I can hardly blame him. Because it is NOT a rule!

If you have young players and your intent is to give the young fellows a break - simply don't be so picky regarding technical balks. Apply that standard equally to both pitchers at all times. Don't advertise that you're going to be slack regarding balks. Just DO it without discussing it with the coaches. You and your partner need to be on the same page in this regards, however. You can't have one umpire picking boogers while the other is letting a few small infractions slide.

Another poster recommended not talking so much during the pregame conference. I think that's good advice. Just exchange lineups ... discuss the ground rules ... and then ask them if they have any questions before we start. That's it.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by David Emerling
Originally posted by Robert G

In any case, in all set of rules that allow balks, I have never heard any discussion of warnings.

If you have young players and your intent is to give the young fellows a break - simply don't be so picky regarding technical balks. Apply that standard equally to both pitchers at all times. Don't advertise that you're going to be slack regarding balks. Just DO it without discussing it with the coaches.

IMO, we need a bridge between Not calling balks and a Balk-a-thon, That Bridge is a warning. It's not fair to a team who is coached properly from one that isn't. In addition one cannot simply ignore the Balk.

If it's a Championship Game (at the end of the season), then you are correct - No warnings however, we are not going to ignore them either. Normally, at least in the association I work for the 13/14 yr. olds (Modified / JV - HS Level) it's common practice to give ONE warning in the beginning of the season and that's it.

Starting with the second half of the season, then No Warnings and we start enforcing the Balks.

Pete Booth

[David Emerling]

The age level dictates how picky you are going to be about a balk. And balks, as we know, come in various varities. You can NEVER ignore a balk that is obvious to even the child's grandmother. But most balks are more subjective. Was that too much of a shoulder turn toward 1st? Did he pause long enough while coming set? These type of balks leave a lot of room for the umpire.

In my opinion, you HAVE to call a balk on a pitcher who fakes to first without stepping off the rubber. You have to call that balk at ALL levels.

---

Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by David Emerling
Originally posted by Robert G

In any case, in all set of rules that allow balks, I have never heard any discussion of warnings.

If you have young players and your intent is to give the young fellows a break - simply don't be so picky regarding technical balks. Apply that standard equally to both pitchers at all times. Don't advertise that you're going to be slack regarding balks. Just DO it without discussing it with the coaches.

IMO, we need a bridge between Not calling balks and a Balk-a-thon, That Bridge is a warning. It's not fair to a team who is coached properly from one that isn't. In addition one cannot simply ignore the Balk.

If it's a Championship Game (at the end of the season), then you are correct - No warnings however, we are not going to ignore them either. Normally, at least in the association I work for the 13/14 yr. olds (Modified / JV - HS Level) it's common practice to give ONE warning in the beginning of the season and that's it.

Starting with the second half of the season, then No Warnings and we start enforcing the Balks.

Pete Booth

Many of the younger leagues do the same thing with warning the first couple of weeks then call all balks. When you give a warning you go out and explain what he did. Some guys, mostly coaches say give a break, they're just learning. My position has always been how can they learn if you don't call them. If you let them go without calling balks they just learn bad habits you then have to break.

[DDonnelly19]

I don't see the purpose of giving warnings on balks. It causes too much inconsistency on how the game is called.

Say the pitcher fails to come set. Balk, first offense, he gets off with a warning. Good, now little Johnny knows that he must come set before pitching. Later, little Johnny feints to 1B. Balk, already had a warning, so we move the runners up. If we use the "warning" as a vehicle to teach the pitchers, how is Johnny supposed to figure out that a feint to 1B is the same penalty as failing to come set? At this point, the "warning" really becomes a "get out of jail free" card.

If you want the "warning" to serve as a teaching opportunity, then you should issue a warning for each type of balk infraction. But then is that per team or per pitcher? Is a throw to 1B without stepping the same as if the throw were to 3B? Coaches will argue that every balk deserves a "warning", so why call them at all? Of course, I'm sure we've all given the pitcher "secret" warnings, so should those count as "official warnings?"

I was going to suggest that at some levels balks should be called but without penalty, but then I'm sure some manager will have his pitcher pull this -- R1 stealing on the pitch. F1, seeing this, purposely balks. R1 goes back to 1B. If runners are allowed to lead off and steal bases, balks almost have to be enforced. You can't try to emulate "real baseball" at the lower levels while removing any responsibility from the pitcher to execute legal moves.

Also, from a practical standpoint, any umpire you put at a lower level likely isn't going to have the training or experience to know when it's appropriate to call a balk. If he sees the pitcher fail to come set, he's either going to call it every time (because he knows the rule) or he will never call any balk at all (because he doesn't know the rule).

If any leagues wants this level of game administration, they better start shelling out the $$$ for the big dogs, because nobody else will be able to keep up with all the convoluted local rules these leagues create.