throat guard discussion
 

I know, it has kinda been discussed before on the boards over the issue of using a throat protector with and extended frame mask. Has any one have any problems with getting a hit in throat area? I mean, i got my new Wilson UCP and the throar protector with it, it interferes with the padding at the top of the CP. I think i will be ok with out it on the extended frame mask, what do you think? :(

If it interferes with teh chest protector, you're doing something wrong.

This kinda like the issue people were having with the WV platinum. It doesnt "interfere" It ends up cuting me off that i cant look down period if i need to. It makes an annoying sound off the chest protector seeing that i have the plates on mine. (Hard shell)

i cut the foam thing off my WVP since looking down caused the mask to bump up against it (which some of you may think is "appropriate use and by design", but I just found annoying), and I use a WV mask. There is the slightest possibility that a foul ball can find its way in the space between bottom of the mask and top of the chest protector. And I do mean slightest. But, just in case, I fasten a short plus pos throat protector to the mask, and we're good to go.

Stop looking down.
 

Is looking down some bad habit you developed? Its okay if the throat guard touches your shirt/CP. You shouldn't feel any discomfort and it shouldn't re-adjust your mask. I wear my CP as high as possible. I also offer as low a neck profile as possible by raising my shoulders. The bottom of my mask and throat protector sit atop the CP, but it doesn't bother me. I feel SAFE because I believe nothing will get through.

I can't think of any reason to look down while wearing a traditional mask. Practice removing the mask with your left hand and then LOOK down, if absolutely necessary. Why would you wear your mask if you need to look down? I guess I just don't understand what you're looking at. In fact, I think I suffer a phobia about looking down. I have these thoughts that if I look down the baseball might clunk me on top of my head and it may hurt. I think I am actually scared to look down.

I wear a platinum, and have a throat protector. I mount it in the inside lower rung on the mask, as opposed to the protruding one. It works well for my body type (tall and thin). YMMV.

I've been hit several times in the throat guard. Everytime it bounces off the pad at the top of the platinum. For me, it's a perfect match.

If you lean forward in your stance, a throat protector is of little use. I work more upright, so I can take advantage of this little piece of plastic. Cheap insurance.

No doubt that looking down is a rarety. Actually about the only time I can think of doing it is when a batter fouls one straight down into the catcher. Looking down is probably more of a reflex then than any other time.

Body types differ. My oldest son has the neck of a giraffe. Mine is about two inches long. No matter how much or how little I weigh, I appear to have hardly any neck at all.

When I tried to wear a dangly thingie, it kept getting caught up on my chest protector whenever I moved my head from one side to another. I stopped wearing it. With my neck, my face mask extension meets my the top of my chest protector.

Back to my son. His neck type created different problems. After an injury in high school wrestling from which he temporarily lost feelings in his arms and legs, we discovered that his neck type was prone to such injuries, and that, in fact, his doctor found that the NFL had commissioned a study regarding such a correlation. My son became part of that study. He, however, continued to wrestle and by the grace of God did not suffer further problems.

I have three masks, one has a throat protector on it. This year I got hit in the throat by a pitch that went under the catcher, hit my shin guard and went straight up and hit me in the throat, UNDER my throat protector. I had a sore throat for two weeks. The only other time I have been hit in the throat was while wearing the same mask, several years ago, before I added the throat protector. That one ricocheted off the catchers glove, hit the top of my chest protector and went up under the mask. I had a sore throat for three weeks.

It's not the mask, all three of my masks are the same brand and style, just different colors. Throat protectors are probably personal preference items. I have never been hit in the throat with the other two masks.

I do not use a throat guard. I have an extended guard on the mask and I wear a WVP. I did not cut off the "bump" on the WVP as others have either. There is no way that the ball can get to my throat with the way that I set up.

I wear an Umpire Style Helmet with that has an extended cage. I also wear a Throat Guard, which I take several hits to each season.

My son wears a Honig's Mask with an extended cage. He did not wear a throat guard, until he got hit in the throat ! He then installed the Throat Guard dad had originally bought him to go with the mask, before his next game.

Use a Throat Guard, no matter what kind of Mask, Helmet, or extended cage you have.

HSM's are not meant to be worn with a throat guard

See, Nick, you've been doing it wrong all this time!

You sure he's yours?!?! :) :p

I don't care what they are meant to be worn with ! (In your opinion.) A helmet doesn't protect your throat any better than a mask. It protects your head better.

The fact of the matter is...The ball can easily get up under your cage, and severely damage your throat.

I primarily work HS Varsity, and Adult baseball. So the catchers I have in front of me, are not good enough for me to go out there with a big hole in my equipment, that leads to such a vulnerable part of my body.

I also don't do this for a living, and don't get paid 6 figures to risk my neck (literally).

So, I recommend wearing a USH (Umpire Style Helmet), since I don't play hockey (HSM = Hockey Style Mask), AND a Throat Guard.

I'm curious as to how this can happen if your head is positioned properly. If you want to wear one as an additional safety measure, just say so. But to make the claim that a ball can easily get up under the cage is crying wolf.

Tim.

I agree that if you are properly positioned and set, no ball should get under your mask. Note - this does not pertain to anyone using the scissors. The scissors puts your head out in front of your chest so a ball can sneak right up the "pipe" (windpipe that is).

Hmmm. Looked at yourself (in your stance) in the mirror lately ? Watched someone else in their stance lately ? I wonder why they sell Throat Guards ? I wonder why so many umpires use Throat Guards ? Is it just a great marketing ploy, to sell a totally useless product (like helmets) ?

Unless you stand with your chin on your chest, which I don't using the GD, a ball can easily get under the cage.

Unless...Your belly is far enough out and up to block the ball !

Like I said initially, you're crying wolf. If you want to wear one, go ahead, but don't think for a minute that you're going to sell me or anyone else with experience that a ball can easily get up under your cage. Looking at a helmet like the Wilson Vision, I don't even think they're made to accept the throat guards straps.


http://www.honigs.com/img_item_full/wvh2.jpg


Tim.

I've seen partners, in a heel/toe stance, take a foul that went off the bat, to the ground and then up under their mask and to the throat, on more than one occasion.

Garth,

The guy pictured obviously has no EXPERIENCE (according to Tim).

He's not wearing a HSM. That's what I was talking about.


Tim.

I believe Jason would take exception to that.

You're right. No statistical analysis to support it. Only common sense would suggest that the extended length on a HSM provides more than adequate protection for the throat area.


Tim.

Nope, the ball can't get up under that cage, but it can get up under the chin guard. So you win the battle of Nit-Picking Words...Here's Your Sign ! :p

This helmet, although it doesn't have an extended cage, looks to be no longer than my All-Star helmet's extended cage, which does allow for a Throat Protector.

I have never seen a Mask or Helmet that protected the throat. Nor have I seen a legitimately taught stance that places the bottom of the cage or chin guard against the chest, to protect the throat.

Garth, this guy is so out of whack that even the best throat guard won't help him! This is almost what I looked like when I did LL eons ago. Yeah, I took a foul ball to the throat way back then but that is when I corrected my stance.

When I settle in the GDS, my back is pretty straight (thanks to missing parts). My mask is very close to the bump-out on my WVP so there is no room for a ball to get in there.

I also never used a throat guard when I used the scissors. I just didn't like them - period. Now, when my son started umpiring, I made him wear a throat guard.

I am in the same school as many others, if you want to wear a throat guard - wear one! You are just not going to convince me to wear something that I do not like.

I honestly dont like them, but ive learned to live with it. 99% of umpires in our org. where one, as taught by our instructor.

Have You Seen a Hockey Game?
 

Consider the requirements for NHL goalies. Do goalies in the NHL and below wear a clear throat guard attached to their HSM? Yes, because they recognize that the helmet alone does not properly protect their throat.

The first question I would ask after sustaining an injury, "Was I properly equipped?" Well, if you feel reasonably secure and ignorantly believe that you no longer need a throat guard, get rid of it and good luck.

Best wishes,

This is a Division I college umpire. Apparently his stance works for him. Who are you to criticize it?

Let's see....D-1 official....2003 and 2004 Community College World Series....professionally trained...

Yeah.....he don't know squat.:rolleyes:

He may know squat, but it appears he doesn't know how to squat!

I have to go with Ozzy here. This guy looks horrible. Whoever told umpires that touching the catcher was a good thing? Remember, we are only discussing his stance here, not his training or experience.

No Garth - he don't know how to squat! :D

Sorry I beat you to it Ozzy. Great minds and all....:D

:D :D :D :D

Well, he must have some training or experience or he wouldn't have risen to the level he has.

Regarding the throat guards, wear or don't wear it, but, show me a stance where the throat is not exposed. Why would anyone choose to not wear something that could keep them from dying on the field?

If the throat guard didn't have a function, like the sunshield so many wear in their masks that do absolutely nothing, it would be different. The throat guard is a functional piece of protective equipment.

Hmmmm. His head height is perfect. He's the correct distance from the catcher for his stance, he is stable.

His performance has earned him a D-1 position and, as mentioned, the community college World Series two years in a row.

I'm sorry, I don't see a problem. But then, I'm probably not near the expert that some folks are.

Jason didn't bargain for ridicule by internet umpires so I have deleted his photos from my post. I'll send him a personal apology this evening.

I prefer the guy working the plate in St. Louis right now. I take my instruction from him.

Let's try to stay on topic. I posted Jason's photo to illustrate a point regarding the possibility of one getting struck by a baseball underneath and behind the lower guard portion of a face mask. There was no intent to utilize the photo as part of a clinic.

Whether or not you feel that Jason's stance is text book, it is accurate in height and distance and stability. That's three elements more than many amateur umpires get right.

Poor Jason. He probably will never be a pro. He's only utilized that stance at levels 95% of amateurs will never see.

So, I'm happy for your friend. I have nothing at all against your friend Jason. I just happened to see my association's chief instructor working the plate in the World Series, and drew my own comparision.

Jason's stance looks like it is vulnerable to balls bouncing up and hitting his throat. So what? So are most stances. Getting hit is part of the game. You have to admit that it's kind of uncanny that two different umpires came up with nearly the exact same response to your "squat" comment, at nearly the exact same time!

You keep insisting that being a D-1 umpire is this great honor, or that it guarantees a quality umpire. I know many D-1 umpires. Some are very good. Some absolutely are not. Not all D-1 umpires are top-notch officials. I have seen a few NCAA Division 1 umpires on TV that would fall into a serious "Smitty" category.

I also know quite a few really great umpires in my area who have no chance at all to work college baseball for reasons I've stated ad nauseum in the past. There are also many other quality umpires here who have no desire to advance higher than HS level. I also know of areas of the country that in order to be a college umpire, all you basically need is to have a pulse and umpire gear.

We never said that Jason wasn't a good umpire. We just thought his stance looked kind of weird. You are the one that brought it off topic by commenting over and over about his professional training and level of baseball.

Which was the only reason it was posted. Thank you.

The topic became off when some internet umpires decided to move beyond that point.

I will say, that since I started using the GD, I get hit in the Throat Guard a lot less.

And I will also say, that until I started using the GD, I was considering wearing Forearm Guards. But in the GD, I get hit a lot less in the Forearms. But I still think they are a legitimate piece of equipment. Our Forearms are at great risk, and a very sensitive place to get hit. I know umpires who quit umpiring after taking a severe hit to the Forearm. And these guys aren't sissy's either.

You know, we are armatures, not professionals. We need to protect ourselves as best we can, so we can continue to support our families by our regular jobs. Getting injured during a $50 baseball game, that keeps us from working is not desirable, in any case.

Garth,

Your photo of your friend was a good example of your point. I am sure that many people that saw it thought as you do. My comments were simply to the photo. You know me by now, I don't care if you are a D3, D1 or MLB. If I see a flaw I am going to tell you about it! Your friend's head is too far in front of his body for even the best throat guard to work and that is a fact. He may be the best umpire in his division, that still won't impress the baseball when it bounces into his exposed throat! Now now remember, I am not critiquing his ability as an umpire, I am just giving an observation from the photo.

The moral of this thread is simple, Garth. If you want to wear a throat guard, by all means wear one! If you want to force your son to wear one, that is fine too. There are those of us that do not wear one and there is nothing that you can do about it - it is just that simple! It's nothing to get upset about!

I think Jason has seen enough evals to be able to take a little criticism by some Internet umpires, warranted or not. JMO.

I know that a dangler is a personal decision (I dont wear one), but I gotta admit, I have never seen a HSM with a dangler. I think I'd collapse laughing if I did.

Now, if I get smacked in the throat next season, I'll be the first one to croak to all of you that I was wrong...

1. i don't know about the moral of this thread or if there is one. I simply posted in response to someone saying it wasn't possible to get hit under a mask by a baseball.

2. I never said I wore a throat guard, in fact, I don't.

3. My son knows how to umpire better than most folks at this site and is old enough and experienced enough to make his own decisions. I never attempt to force him to do anything.

3. I'm not upset about anything. I just continue to be amazed by the posts of some people.

4. Have a very pleasant day.

Garth,

I can't believe you could make a statement such as #3 (the first #3, that is). I know you're proud of your kid and all, but you have no idea how good most folks at this site are at umpiring, it is just your speculation in most cases. The statement smacks of pride, but is illogical at best. In fact, it should be categorized under your second #3.

Garth, talk about selfish and ignorant comment. Ok, if your going to be that way, I know how to umpire better then your son :p

I know Garth's son, Matt. Garth's son, Matt, is a friend of mine. Lieutenant Dan, you're NO Matt.

"Most folks at this site," which is the group Garth compared his son's umpiring skills to, have revealed a great deal about their umpiring experience and competence by posting on this site. Garth knows what his son's experience, professional training, and competence level is (as do I and some others here), and his conclusion that Matt knows how to umpire better than most folks on this site is, on the basis of empirical data, completely supported.

but now do those of us around here brag about are umpiring abilities??/ :mad:

Go ahead and laugh
 

I no longer leave my forearm exposed. I place the back of my hand in the small of my back. The most damage I have felt is a glancing blow to the upper arm. No more agonizing pain or loss of motion, no more lost feeling or numbness, no more swelling or bruising and no more worry about the hand or wrist. I worry about getting hit on the elbow bone, but I know that it will not absorb the full blow. I take comfort in knowing I did all I could do to protect myself, despite what others may think about the SA stance.

Another amazing post.

Unlike some posts on the boards, this had nothing to do with pride, and everything to do with training and experience. Matt is not a 16 year old LL umpire. Matt, at nearly 22, has more professional training and experience at upper level tournaments, including state, regional and district play-offs in FED, Legion and MSBL than most 40 year olds. His accolades from observers include state clinicians, MiLB umpires and MLB umpires and, equally important to me, some umpires in a private list to which I belong, who also post here.

As regards my mention of "most folks" on this board, they present enough evidence about themselves to provide additional judgment.

If you choose to include yourself in my grouping of "most folks", that's up to you.

If you think you have enough of a command of the English language and can write competently enough for others to comprehend, and you actually have something to brag about in your career, feel free.

For starters, see if you can find a dictionary and look up the words, "are", "your", "then" and "homophone."

And, if your teacher is giving you anything above a "D" in English, also look up "grade inflation."

SanDiegoDan,

I suggest you let your Uncle Steve give you the proper training that he has received from all the pro school grads. Then perhaps you can lay such claim to this statement.

Some have the 'goods' to brag. Some desperately need to quit posting until they acquire some 'goods.'

Dan, again, I refer you to a site which may assist your quest in another area:

www.antimoon.com

I find SDS's post about Garth's son highly ironic, given the way he first appeared on this board.

And, as much as I hate to close a thread shortly after I've posted, lest I be accused of taking the last shot, then running and hiding, I think I will.