What would you do in this situation?
 

11-12 Baseball. 2 man crew. Im BU. R1 & R2 on 2nd & 3rd, so im in C position. winning team is batting. Ground ball is hit, PU is watching third, so im making the call at first. I call "Safe, hes off the bag". I hear the defensive (losing) teams coach say "oh come on", then asks the other coach "did he call him safe?, oh no way!" He then walks out of the dugout and yells to me from beside the dugout "get help on that, blue" I'm thinking no-way. I seen what i saw, the first baseman was clearly off the bag i tell him. He then proceeds to come out of the dugout and go toward my partner. I calmly say "no coach, he's off the bag". He ignores me, and i throw him out. he then says "you have to give me a warning a first." im then like "no, there is no warnings on judgement calls" :mad: He then walks out. After the inning was over, PU tells me he saw nothing, he was doing his duties with third. After the game, league pres. tells me "the coach has the right to go to the other umpire" :eek: Im like no. What do you know about umpiring??? and that was the end of it. Do you think i was too harsh, or did i do the right thing by sticking to my call? Now ive heard of the offensive coach coming to argue that a runner was safe, but not the defensive coach to argue that the runner is out.:D

Hey, you seen what you saw. It's your call to make and you made it. I'm like impressed that you tossed the guy.

Dan,

You don't state if this is a 60' or 90' field (With LLPA in your name I can't guess). Either way BU should take BOTH calls, with PU watching for pulled foot/swip tag at 1B.

The mechanics vary slightly on 60' vs 90', but the basics are the same - BU has both plays if the ball stays in the infield.

Some would argue that PU should take 3B on the 60' field. If so, why would we put BU in C?

11-12 yr old- yeah its on the 60'. PU was assisting, as i had to watch 1st. Noe, he wasnt "covering" third, he was watching R2 & R3 while i watched BR. So of course a play at third or second is my call too. PU helps, i cannot watch R2& R3 while they are behind me, can i? BU is mainly in C for the steal to third. Depends on what happens when the ball is put in play, who covers what. Hope that clears it up.

Did you really toss the coach for ignoring you? The sentence that gives me that impression is "He ignores me, and i throw him out." I couldn't quite tell whether these clauses were supposed to be related.

Smarties Dave & LMan aside, you did a couple of things wrong:

1) You should have told the coach not to go to your partner, not just repeat what you saw on the play. That would be the proper warning. Something like: "Coach, if you continue out to my partner, you're going to be ejected. I had the call all the way and don't have to ask for help."

As it was, the coach still thought he was within his rights to go over your head and ask your partner to overrule you. You should have made it clear that doing such was a no-no. You don't just toss the coach and tell him there are no warnings on judgment calls. He needs to know the real reason why you are about to run him.

2) After any controversy or ejection, you should never get together at that half-inning break to converse with your partner. At the end of that inning, you should have trotted on out to short right-center and stood there.

The league president in this case is wrong, the coach has absolutely no business going to your partner. If you are unsure, it's you that must go to your partner, who in this case was pickin' daisies or something. He should have been watching for a pulled foot or swipe tag. What the hell does he need to watch the baserunners for anyway? Nothing can happen without the baseball, and to use watching the runners as an excuse is total BS. It sounds like your partner is as inexperienced as you are.

He started to go to his partner, then he told him the call again instead of telling him not to go to his partner.

I would not toss if the guy wanted to talk with my partner. I would expect partner to throw water on the guy.

League presidents don't always know what they are talking about so I take them with a grain of salt.

my partner was very experienced actually. When i said "no" i meant no im not going for help, then before he was ejected i told him "no" as in dont go to HP ump, go back to the dugout

i was going to preceed this with "pardon my french" but you didn't give any sort of apology for your english. soooo, WTF are you talking about???

there are certain things that warrant an unwarned ejection. things such as contact with you, blatant profanity directed at you or your partner, and throwing at a kid's head come to mind. your described situation 100% needed a warning as outlined in steve's post. furthermore, by telling him, "there is no warnings on judgement calls," you have now talked yourself into a corner and thrown fuel on the fire.

so now you expect him to be a mind reader so he can determine what you are saying no to? see steve's post.

You should have nipped it in the bud right here.

A coach who starts out of the dugout yelling at you should immediately be told to return to his dugout. If he doesn't understand that proper decorum dictates that he be granted time to come out to discuss a call, he'll soon get the message if you remind him to return to the dugout. If he keeps coming out, dump him.


Tim.

He claims that his partner was very experienced, so what's your point?


Tim.

Well I just got home from a JV football game where like a thing happened that was well like this thing here where a coach like went off on me and I said there's no foul there and I that's enough talking about it so I could concentrate on the game but then he's all like so what you gonna do if I keep talking and I'm all like ignoring his butt so i don't corner myself and because I can tell it fries his butt when I like do that. Then he keeps like acting big and all for the rest of the game until the fourth quarter when he's goes like "do you even have a flag?" So, I'm all like had enough of this moron, you know, so I say, "sure do, but it's going like to cost you 15 yards to see it" and I'm all throwing my flag in the air and calling unsportsmanlike on this sick dude.

Then I get home and see how everyone's all going on this thread and like it's like deja vu dude.

<i>He then walks out of the dugout and yells to me.......</i>

Gone.

No coach is yelling at me in LL game. None. Zero. Nada.


Next question.

Good try Garth but you has to learn to like mismatch subjects and verbs more better also verb tenses. Good non-use of the period they is just extry stuff anyways.

My onliest advice to Dan is to like stay in school.

Just to add a bit to what Steve said, your partner should have told the coach that if he wanted to talk about the call he'd have to see you. And keep this in mind if a coach ever wants to talk to you about your partner's call.

I agree. And, Dan, you should have told the coach the same thing when he started toward your partner. "Coach, that was my call. If you want to discuss it, come see me."

Had the coach got that far, im sure my partner would have a turned his A$$ around. This coach has known to be trouble coach. Loves gettin in umpire's grill. I wont argue with a coach on a judgement call. You know funny thing after that, Next day, im waiting around before a game at the consession stand with another ump, and the coach came up to me and said "I wasnt questioning your judgement last night" I said yes you were. Why else do u want me to go for help when i already made a call?? He was speechless. :D

You should NEVER EVER EVER tell a coach, "Coach if you do (or don't do) X, you're going to be ejected." NEVER.

Agreed! The very few times I have had a coach wishing jump out of a dugout a simple "don't come out here" usually gets the point across without the threat.

His partner was barely mentioned. What exactly in the OP do you find problematical as far as the PU's behavior?

Don't EVER let reputation or history effect the way you deal with a coach. First time, or 50th time - react the same way.

Wow, you are street. I'm impressed. And at the tender age of 12. Cool 4 U.

U want constructive help from this board, U need to learn to speak like you are older than 12. Yaknowwhatimsayin?

My apologies for the typo. I meant to delete wishing but forgot.

That is another reason not to hang around the concession stand by the way.

I know that Tee thinks Dan's a troll, but textual analysis suggests that he is an authentic juvenile. Garth's parody is "bonus," (a slang expression I like because it is -presumably unwittingly - etymologically correct!) but obviously the work of someone who actually knows the rules of grammar - to expert eyes, an obvious forgery.

Or.....maybe Garth meant <b>"entomologically"</b> because the kid is bugging him.

and yet...
 

im still intellectually confused.

QED.

JM

Runners @ 3rd and 2nd, plate umpires responsibility #1 Fair/Foul #2 runner from third touch home or a play at home on runner from third.
If U-1 is watching for pulled foot @1st, U-1 isn't tracking his own responsibility.
U-2 is on his own unless U-1 isn't doing his job

What would I do in this situation? One thing I'd do is not be in "C" in little ball with runners on second and third. Far more likely to be a play at first (as there was) then any action on the left side of the field.

He claims a lot of things...

I think he should take the advice that from now on, if a coach ever leaves the dugout without specific permission from Blue, its an immediate ejection. Gotta be tough early on in your umpiring career, or you'll never make 'the show'......

It may sound logical, but the accepted and approved mechanic for the small diamond is to have BU in C anytime there's a runner at second or third.


Tim.

Sorry, LakeErie... you have to be in C... otherwise, you can't see if R1 or R2 left the base early, a major consideration in LL ball.

The original post said 11/12 baseball. Every league i've ever seen allowed
leading off/stealing at age 11. In LL, how old must one be to steal, 18 ?

//



________

Little League
 

In Little League, or Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken, leading doesn't begin until you get to 90' bases at age 13.

Lee

I can see second and third just as easily from "B", and in fact I can see second better since it's in my vision while I look at third.
I know the established mechanic is "C" all the time (you know what I mean) but more and more the more experienced umpires I work with are going with the percentages and working in "B". I've tried it and I agree with them.