Foul Ball Called in Error
 

Hi - my first post here. Looking some advice on how we could have handled this one better. I am the base umpire, AAU game using FED rules.

2 outs, R1, 1-1 count on RH batter: pitch is way inside and I see/hear it hit the knob end of the bat, ball rolls towards me in B. PU immediately yells "foul", batter remains in box. Pitcher fields ball, and starts to play to first - I echo foul call.

Offense immediately wants to know why foul was called, shouts out "the ball hit the bat".

My partner comes out to talk to me. I tell him what I saw. He tells me "I heard it hit something".

Is it best to admit the foul ball call was wrong, or tell them the ball hit the bat, then the batter. Or something else.

BTW: my partner kept the batter at bat with another strike; 2 pitches later batter grounded out.

I wouldn't lie about it. The PU needs to go tell the coach he blew it by calling it foul. If he "heard it hit something" he should know what it was before making the call.

In FED, you have no choice by rule! If the umpire calls the ball FOUL, it is foul no matter what. If you are wrong, you swallow your pride and let the manager chew on you a little, then get on with the game.

In OBR, if the players react to the fall of FOUL, then again, you are stuck with it.

Even the PU wanted to know that huh?


Your partner came out to talk to you? What did he expect you to do after he had killed the play? I would have asked him what he thought it hit and suggested that he watch the ball better & not be so quick on the trigger.


To lie or not to lie.......which will cause the least problems? Saying something that everyone thinks is wrong (but only half will say anything outloud) or admitt that you haven't a clue about what is going on? If you admit your mistake then they might question every play. But if you lie that ain't good either....not much help on this one huh?


That's baseball

Sounds like the PU thought the ball struck the batter after it hit the bat.


You can't unring this bell, and its not your call anyway. As BU you should only call a FOUL ball in the box IF you are absolutely sure you saw it and the PU missed it (screened out). But you must be ABSOLUTELY sure.

It doesnt work the other way around.

There's nothing to explain here. Its the PUs call, he called foul, play on.

Correct, although entirely irrelevant to what he asked us.

To answer your actual question, I think lying when the coach really does know what happened will eliminate your credibility. Best way to handle this is just to say, "Coach - PU called it foul, and we can't unring that bell once he says it." If that isn't enough, PU could admit his mistake, but say that by rule there's nothing to do but play on. Occasionally admitting a screwup when they know you made one will actually AID your credibility as long as you're not having to fess up to something all the time! :)

Mike is right here. There have been times when I've gotten a call wrong, and I knew it, and when the coach came out to argue, I simply said, "Coach, I blew that one, but that's the call and it stands. I'll try to do better next time." That has never failed to end the argument and send the coach back to the dugout. I have had coaches tell me later that they appreciated the honesty and were glad that I didn't try to BS them by lying or defending my wrong call.

If I know I nailed the call, on the other hand, and the coach wants to argue, I'm going to give him all the argument he wants, and then some.

I agree with mcrowder, Fess up and go on. If they want to be jerks and question every call, you can put a stop to it. Most often that is the end of an arguement. Also I think it does add to your credibility for the future. I have had to fess up to a mental mistake which was huge, nothing I could do to change it but it was my fault. I took the heat. a couple years later with the same coach he came out to argue something, and the conversation leaned toward was I mistaken, I simply said you know if I was wrong I would tell you I made a mistake, he stopped looked at me then said "yup you're right you would have." then turned and left end of problem.

As BU I would expect PU to do the talking to the coach. It was his foulup.

As BU, my response to a coach inquiry would be short and sweet: "Once it's called foul, it's foul. No second kiss at the pig."

As PU, I would try to get away with a shrug and a simple "I called it foul coach." If he persists in dragging out a confession, I'd give it to him, certainly instead of lying about the basis for the call. "Yeah, coach I called it prematurely, sorry about that. Have the same problem in bed. Life's a *****. Now let's play."

If it is a close hitting the bat or the the batter there is no way the bu can tell what it hit. And if you do over rule that from a 100 feet away you better circle the wagons because you are in for you hell of a aguement know.

Let's see, the original question was And I stated I thought I gave enough information. He can say what he wants but by the rules he has to deal with it in different ways. I am not about to tell him what he should and shouldn't say in this situation. You know as well as I do that you suck it up, tell the truth and eat the crow! So as far as I am concerned, the post was in fact, quite relevant.

But Oz, he wasn't asking whether you have to stick with the FOUL call - he seemed to already know that. Your reply, while being correct information, did not answer his actual question. It merely reiterated something he already seemed to know.

He was asking - when you're stuck with a FOUL call that you made but you know was wrong, should you fess up to the mistake or invent an excuse ("or tell them the ball hit the bat, then the batter.").

You say: But this is EXACTLY what he as asking for advice on ... what he should or shouldn't say.

When in doubt
 

Its best to be honest, but to also use the rule book to your advantage.

Coach, its a foul ball because the PU called a foul. By rule, (since this is FED), if an umpire calls it foul its foul whether right or wrong ...

So, coach let's play ball.


Thanks
Daivd

I think I see what you are getting at here. I was saying to tell the truth but I guess that is too broad a statement. No problem as there have been numerous posts stating the same thing just in better detail.

Don't look now, but the size of my mental block is showing!

Well, it isn't foul ALL of the time! ;)

But that explanation does work on this particular play.

Just pray that the other situation doesn't come up later where an umpire declares a ball "foul" and it isn't. Then you'll have some real 'splainin' to do! :D

Thanks all for the replies and opinions.

A clarification:

Those comments and questions were directed to my partner. That was just about the moment he probably realized: oops - why did I call that foul?

The overwhelming consensus has been, admit the mistake.

In this particular game, I was the senior umpire; my partner is new to the association. If you were in a similar situation, do you advise the newbie to admit his goof, or let him figure it out on his own?

Baseball War Story
 

Many years ago I was working the plate in a small college game (I was fairly new to this business). My partner was a 30+ year veteran. Late in the game, 2 outs & no one on. The batter hits one down the RF line (almost to the fence), my partner goes down the line and I move into position to take the BR around the bases. I glance at the ball just as it hits the line (a small ‘puff’ of chalk) but suddenly I hear my partner yell “FOUL.” Obviously all action stopped and a very angry coach came boiling out of the dugout.

He took off toward my partner yelling,
“You can’t do that to us Doug”
“What were you watching? It certainly wasn’t the ball”
“Couldn’t you see the cloud of chalk?”
“Ask your partner, I bet he saw it from where he was”

This was long before the move to the “kinder & gentler” umpires that we have today, so Doug ran him. Doug was a live or die with the call type of umpire so right or wrong the coach was gone. On his way out the coach said to me.

“I know that you saw the chalk, I can see it in your eyes.” I didn’t say a word or move a muscle.
Then he asked me, “Al can you ask Doug to get his eyes checked?”

Later the local news showed the “highlights” of the game and the ball hitting the chalk about a dozen times. I’ll never forget that game

I like Doug already.

Thank you.

And Doug likes you, too.:D

It's good that you fixed this. If you work a varsity game with a partner who makes this mistake, you probably better fix it there too. Otherwise, you could have a protestable call. This wasn't a judgement call from the way you've described it.


Tim.

A new question. You are the senior guy and the new PU comes to you for help. you should first discuss the play. Ask him what he saw and heard and explain what you think the correct ruling is and that based on what he has told you the correct ruling is not "Foul", but it is a call that will have to stand. And, that he will need to explain to the coach complaining that he made a mistake, and the call can't be reversed. If he wants your help then walk over with him to the coach for the explanation, but he will need to do the explaining and you should only speak if the coach does not want to accept the explanation.

I expect the explanation will go well and the coach will accept it but if the coach becomes personal, profane or prolonged you may have to advise your new umpire it is time toss this guy.