what should i have called

[clips2]

runner on third, leading off the bag.1 foot outside foul territoryand other in fair territory. batter hits a ball that hits him..when it hit him it was going to be a foul ball. But, since he had part of his body in fair territory is he out.. i called foul ball and runner still on third...if a runner is hit by a ball in foul territory he is not out..but what happens when some part is in fair territory,,,,thanks for the help

[tibear]

If ball is in foul territory when it hits the runner it is a foul ball.

If ball is in fair territory, the ball is dead, runner is out. Depending on base runners and where the third baseman is at the time of the contact there might be a possibility of calling a double play.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by tibear

If ball is in foul territory when it hits the runner it is a foul ball.

If ball is in fair territory, the ball is dead, runner is out. Depending on base runners and where the third baseman is at the time of the contact there might be a possibility of calling a double play.

If you're going to call a double play here you would need intent to interfere for the purposes of breaking up a double play on the part of the runner struck by the batted ball. The position of F5 is only relevant to whether or not you would have interference at all on the runner. If F5 was playing in front of the runner and the ball had passed immediately back of him before it hit the runner, the runner has not interfered even if the ball had hit him over fair territory.


Tim.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

If you're going to call a double play here you would need intent to interfere for the purposes of breaking up a double play on the part of the runner struck by the batted ball. The position of F5 is only relevant to whether or not you would have interference at all on the runner. If F5 was playing in front of the runner and the ball had passed immediately back of him before it hit the runner, the runner has not interfered even if the ball had hit him over fair territory.


Tim.

The situation I was thinking of: bases loaded and the third baseman is playing tight to the line and behind third base. In this situation, the third baseman could have picked up the ball touched third for the force of R2 and then thrown the batter out at first. There is no requirement to know intent in this case, if in the umpire's opinion, the defense would have made a double play had the runner not touched the ball then in addition to the baserunner the batter is also out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

The situation I was thinking of: bases loaded and the third baseman is playing tight to the line and behind third base. In this situation, the third baseman could have picked up the ball touched third for the force of R2 and then thrown the batter out at first. There is no requirement to know intent in this case, if in the umpire's opinion, the defense would have made a double play had the runner not touched the ball then in addition to the baserunner the batter is also out.

That's true in FED rules, but not in OBR. Since the OP didn't specify, most on this board default to OBR.

[BigUmp56]

What the third baseman could have done is irrelevant. 7.09(g) requires a willfull and deliberate attempt to interfere for the purposes of breaking up a double play. If the defense is deprived of the opportunity to play on another runner, absent intent on the part of the runner who interfered, you can only get the one out.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Tim is correct. If the ball hits the runner by accident, you cannot assume the double play, and it's just a tough break for the defense. They can only get the one out for the INT.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

What the third baseman could have done is irrelevant. 7.09(g) requires a willfull and deliberate attempt to interfere for the purposes of breaking up a double play. If the defense is deprived of the opportunity to play on another runner, absent intent on the part of the runner who interfered, you can only get the one out.


Tim.

You're talking about interference and I'm talking about runner being struck by a hit ball 7.08(f).

In my experience, and I know the rule about the ball passing through a infielder, if there is any chance(and I mean ANY) of another infielder getting to the ball had the baserunner not been struck. The ball is dead and the runners placed at TOP or moved forward as a result of batter being placed on first.

Good luck with the discussion with the defense when you call everyone save on a ball hit through the third baseman who's playing in and then hits R2 with the shortstop standing 6 feet behind R2.

For the double play situation, I saw this earlier this year, R1 is hit by ball with no fielder in front of him and second baseman standing there waiting to start the easy doubleplay. The umpire called dead ball and single out. After discussion with partner the decision was made that indeed a double play would be called.

I acknowledge that the letter of the rule says only one out in this situation but from my experience, everyone accepts it when an obvious easy doubleplay was broken up by the hit runner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by clips2

runner on third, leading off the bag.1 foot outside foul territoryand other in fair territory. batter hits a ball that hits him..when it hit him it was going to be a foul ball. But, since he had part of his body in fair territory is he out.. i called foul ball and runner still on third...if a runner is hit by a ball in foul territory he is not out..but what happens when some part is in fair territory,,,,thanks for the help

Like tibear said, it is the position of the ball that determines whether the runner is out or not, not the position of the runner. Had the runner been where he is supposed to be on this play, his whole body would have been in foul territory, thus if the ball hit him, it would be an ordinary foul. If the ball is over fair territory when it hits the runner, the runner is out regardless of where he is standing, including on the base (with the exception of an IFF, and the scenario BigUmp just posted while I was posting this).