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Little League umpire in the regionals
The thread to which I responded has gone south. I don't know if I'll get everything in again, but....
Yesterday, my wife and I watched the Little Legion regional game between IA and MO. The plate umpire was the best Little League umpire I've every seen on TV. He is clearly a trained ump: He used the Gerry Davis stance. (An umpire who followed on the West Coast seemed to want to do it but didn't know how.) He verbalized his call on every pitch: "Ball." "Strike." He waited for the pitch to end before making his call. He used the umpire school hammer for strikes. On a half swing ruled a strike, he pointed to the batter. On swinging strikes, he did not point and he simply signaled strike. On a third strike swinging, he simply signaled strike. He did not have dancing feet on pitches in the dirt, he kept his head steady (presumably he was tracking the pitch with his eyes). He busted into the infield on every batted ball, mask in left hand, hat on his head. Someone emailed privately to say the umpire lost the count twice in the same inning. My reply: Compared to what he did right, losing the count witg all the electronic counters on a national TV game was less than a pimple on an ant's a$$. MO won, and they're going to the World Series. I imagine the umpire won't. BTW: The only thing I saw him do wrong was call "Foul!" in a loud, commanding voice on obvious fouls. I'm told by a friend who should know that LL wants the umpires to do that. I was surprised that the mandatory play rule was in effect as high as the regionals. They always suspend it for the World Series. If you already replied to the other thread, you don't have to do it here. We can't rebuild the missing pieces. Gosh, I'm reminded of the midnight massacre when the Rhode Island flash struck down his posts. |
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I explained what happened in your thread "Missing LL Thread". Again, I apologize that some good posts had to be elminated to get rid of the nonsense. |
"I was surprised that the mandatory play rule was in effect as high as the regionals. They always suspend it for the World Series."
Carl, MPR is in effect during all levels LL Tourn'y play (has been for more than 10 years). One could easily start a thread on the wild things that happen when LL managers don't get all the kids in ... just look at the what happened at the East Region semi-final Sat. |
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He loses a couple of style points in my book for his fairly robotic, softball-style strike and out mechanics. And his shirt didn't quite fit over that +POS chest protector with 5,000 rivets. A close second was the umpire in the first regional game, the Southeast region in Florida. Another very solid plate performance. In fact, there hasn't been a bad plate performance yet, which supports the contention I've been making for awhile that "LL umpires" have come a long way, baby, compared to only a few years ago. Anyone who remembers "lobster claw man" will probably agree. The only significant glitch in 5 games so far, is the blown call at 1B in the Southwest Region game, that took the game tying run off the scoreboard, in a game that finished 1-0. An unfortunate gross miss at the worst possible time. [/QUOTE] Quote:
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The next step for the LL umps who are positioning themselves for this level is to begin working on their appearance and conditioning. |
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I have watched parts of five regional games so far.
UNTIL todays IL/IN game (with "Mr. Let me hide my arms behind my back") I was very, very impressed by the plate umpiring. TWO things that LL managment REQUIRES from umpires: 1) All foul balls are to be called "FOUL" loudly and clearly and, 2) All bases are to be whisked clean after any play occurs. While these things don't fly in "big boy ball" I can look past these edicts and see that umpring at the Regional Level has become vastly better in the last three years. We'll have to wait for Friday to begin piling on the the horrible umpires that will be working. Well all will be poor with the expecting of "JK" who will shine. Regards, |
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Yeah, the IL/IN was definitely the worst PU so far in the coverage. He did a lot of smitty things including pointing to the batter on pretty much every swinging strike call, pointing to first on ball four, and (as you mentioned) hiding his hands behind his back. |
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From the 2005 tournament rules published by Little League: 2005 Tournament Rules and Guidelines for Little League Baseball 9-10 Year Old Division Baseball, 11 Year Old Division, Junior League, Senior League and Big League Baseball Rules: Except where noted in these Tournament Rules and Guidelines, the Little League Baseball Official Regulations and Playing Rules will be used in the conduct of the 9-10 Year Old Division Tournament, the 11 Year old Division Tournament, the Little League Baseball Tournament, Junior League, Senior League and Big League Baseball Tournaments. TOURNAMENT PLAYING RULES 9. MANDATORY PLAY: 9-10 Year Old Division, 11 Year Old Division, Little League, Junior League, and Senior League: Every player on a team roster shall participate in each game for a minimum of three (3) consecutive defensive outs and bat at least one (1) time. |
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Now tell me, is that the same MP rule used in the regular season? |
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In the thread I deleted, NO ONE b!tched about the LL umps, nor the organization, and two LL umpires, Rich and Dave can attest to that. In fact, it contained many congratulatory comments towards the LL umpires working the televised games from so-called Big Dogs. It was an amazingly civil thread in that regard. The only b!tching was aimed at posters. |
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Years ago, there was no MPR in tournament play. When they first introduced it, it was only at 12 and under levels (Juniors, Seniors and Big League had no MPR requirement) and it was a very easy to comply with 3 defensive outs OR 1 at bat. That eventually turned into 3 CDO AND 1 at bat, and in recent years they've expanded MPR requirements to, first, Junior League, and then, this year for the first time, Senior League (15-16). The only division exempt from MPR today is Big League (17-18). |
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The games on TV have to look good, don't they? |
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They had new uniforms on and did a good job. If you are saying they should only pick thin umpires, I think you are completely wrong. They should pick those who can do the job. Period. |
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There is no MPR at the Senior Level this season. I just worked a district and state tourney. --Rich |
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I didn't say that. I said appearance and condition. That said, a 400 pound camel-toed PU who can't cover third when needed, or trail a B/R down the baseline, does not, I believe, possess the proper appearance or condition to officiate an athletic contest. However, what I was referring to by appearacne in my post were those PU's whose shirts were too small to appropriately cover their gear and their bodies, and those who appeared to have some difficulty in their mobility. Thus, appearance and conditioning. |
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I saw a good one, too.
I thought the dish ump in the Alaska/Oregon game also did a fine job. A little high in the "Palermo" syance, but a nice job nonetheless. And damn, he looked no older than 35. This is a good thing, in my book.
Plus, he was one of the few I've seen at this level with a distinctly different call for swinging and taken strikes. Tucked in, spit-shined, crisp. And, IMHO, a great command of the LL "outside strike"--giving it on groin-high pitches, not giving it otherwise. I've had two buddies do LL Eastern Regional games (12 yr old). Yes, they are adamantly told to wipe the bases, yell "foul" constantly, cut inside the infield on every batted ball (try doing this from deep C with sacks juiced!). I agree with Garth that some of these guys look horrendously out of shape--keep them off the TV games, I say. But, I must say that the level here has improved. Now wait for the WS--always an adventure. Ace |
garth said camel-toed. that's funny.
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Pam Postema had a camel toe. Ria Cortesia as well.
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Southwest Regional
I saw where Dave stated that the blown call at 1B would have tied the game. The call went against the Louisiana team who won 1-0. The call actually would have put them up 2-0 at that time.
The umpire who made the call simply choked. He stated that he knew he blew the call when he made it. He is a good umpire, he just made a bad call. I umpired this years SW Regional as well and will be calling this years LLWS. I can appreciate some constructive criticism and will be reading various forums for some feedback. I am not a professional umpire and I am sure there will be plenty of opportunity for criticism, so do your worst. Some of you I respect and look forward to your remarks, others of you sound a lot like sour grapes and seem I'm guessing do your best umpiring on a public forum. |
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In fact, there hasn't been a bad plate performance yet, which supports the contention I've been making for awhile that "LL umpires" have come a long way, baby, compared to only a few years ago. Anyone who remembers "lobster claw man" will probably agree.
Dave I do not know their "resumes" but are they really LL umpires or are they Umpires who work LL. I live in the east and have attened the regionals in Bristol Conn. Whenever I saw a really good plate performance and inquired I found out that the individual also did College ball, HS varsity etc. You could also see a big "drop-off" when an Umpire who had the dish did Strictly LL compared to that as mentioned above. Therefore, is the improvement in umpiring at the regionals over the past several years due to the fact that the umpires chosen also do "other" ball so that they are more relaxed and also well schooled as opposed to LL umpires getting better. Pete Booth |
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Umpires who "do" LL . Doug |
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http://www.cameltoe.org/ |
I looked at the site and the symbol looks like a split labia not nuts.
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Just wondering...... |
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Thanks Garth... I will enjoy for many years to come! |
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http://www.cameltoe.org/images/CheneyToe.jpg |
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ROFLMAO! :D :D |
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Well, the string has been broken. Mid-Atlantic final Monday night - OMG, Smitty is back! Or should I say Smittly and his family?
1/2 kneeling/semi-sideways stance. Sometimes in the slot, often OUTSIDE, often right behind F2 (He only did that when F2 stood up so he could hide I guess). Never once went up 1B line for coverage. Zip presence - couldn't hear his strike call even with the mike. Never quite sure what all the hand waving meant. Hard to get fresh baseballs out of that gray bag with mask & indicator in right hand. About as crisp as an overdone noodle. U1 - All calls from 1/4 step fair 20' up the line. U2 - When he bounced in the ground shook. He did hustle every play. U3 - Had a clue. stayed out of the infield except when needed. Was in position for every call, including when R2 missed 3B. (3B coach didn't argue either). LFU - No calls observed RFU - Two plays I saw he hustled to get into position, set and made his call. Don't get me wrong - I have done my share of LL games. |
Had my laughs at the camel toe site, but I want to ask; what is the rotation on a six man system? The PU is supposed to come up to where on a 60' field?
These guys work for free and do a job that few of us want. Why all the sniping? |
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I agree with socal on this one.
PU didn't seem to have a preferred head height. At times it seemed as though he was peeking around F2 to get a look. One of the most obvious to me was the indicator and mask in the right hand. As for the sniping, I watch these guys for selfish reasons... to learn. That is to say, when I see their mistakes, I note that it doesn't look good and I don't want to be giulty of the same infraction. Case in point, this same PU pointed at the batter on every swinging strike. It doesn't effect the game but just looks bad. I know that I'm guilty of the same thing at times, but seeing it will certainly help me break this bad habit. |
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U2 goes out, U3 covers second, ULF covers third. |
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(dead space to represent my digging out the CCA book) Oh... hmmm.... learn something new every day! Thanks Rich. ;) |
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The other rotation I've seen used is ignoring the line umpires and having U2 go out, U3 cover second, PU cover third, and U1 cover the plate (just like 4 man). While this boxes in every fly ball where U2 goes out, it seems like too much unnecessary rotation with 6 umpires. |
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It is. LL uses 6 so they can get as many umpires the "Regional/World Series experience". |
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BTW, the only time I saw a base whisked was when the breakaway top popped off and, following the manufacturers instructions, the base plate was cleaned before the top is snapped back on. |
Rich,
The 6 umpire deal at regionals started way before ESPN. I can understand a brush with the new style break away bases. No other way to clean it out except a hose. I can just see the backpack water pack on Lance now ... |
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Besides, the umpires should be calling for a groundskeeper when the bases come out. |
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Not all leagues are smart enough to use the magnetic style (IMO the best choice of all). Many are using the old type break-away bases that have a large square hollow receptacle on the peg & male end on the actual base. When these fill with dirt it's a pain clean out. Of course these are the fields that have no staffing and usually nothing more than a rake & drag. It's use a brush or stop playing. Now using the brush on the base is a whole different animal. |
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Why? Fix it and get the game moving again.
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Are you serious? |
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Suppose the base breaks away, and the coach is yelling from the dugout, "Hey blue, the base is off." Do you ignore him? Do you tell him to fix it? Do you tell a player to take care of it? Aren't you running the risk of being perceived as a red a$$? |
It just seems lazy as hell to me. If I can get the base back on and the game going in 30 seconds, why would I wait 5 minutes for somebody to go get a groundskeeper to fix it? I'm not too good to help out.
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It's never been an issue, for me. |
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Rotation, loose bases, masks but no moose knuckle
The dish guy on the Mid Atlantic game was ridiculous. The first putch I saw, he was in the outside slot (of there is such a nether region).
There was another regional final where the plate was done by Mr. Rip Maskandhatoff. Any foul ball near the plate, his sh&t came flying off. Best of all (I saw this only once) he took off his gear to APPEAL TO U1 ON A CHECKED SWING. I have done LLSB at Regional level (both Majors and Seniors). I once had a daisy show up at one of these games ( I was PU) wearing off-white canvas shoes and sporting a jaunty red flag in her back pocket. She then proceeded to call an illegal pitch on the starter from Mass. ON THE PENULTIMATE PITCH OF THE GAME! So, LLSB WS ineptitude doesn't surprise me. I watched the WS a couple of years ago, only to see the Guinness Interplanetary Record for Highest Pitch Called a Strike. Gave new meaning to the term "cutthroat." From my buds who have worked in Bristol: 3 base umps NEVER go out. They are instructed to get inside on every batted ball. Of course, this makes for a magnificent clusterf*ck. LF and RF umps have all catches, fence calls, etc. I humbly think that most of the umps I've seen on the baselines make me look like a Biafran supermodel. Which is saying something. Yes, I'm not a groundkepper. I get the kids to fix the bases. If it's really bad, I summon a coach, parent or groundkeeper. It's just not my job; plus I am cleaned, pressed and starched at every game. Okay, I feel better now. Ace |
Mr. Rip Maskandhatoff is too funny! And I'm not fixing your bases either! My knuckles will get all scraped up. I'll leave it for the rats.
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Glad you enjoyed the game and your friend "who should know" doesn't know what he is talking about. While some clinicians in some areas want a foul called out loudly, LL does not dictate that they do it that way. Just like in any other program, some personal preferences get relayed to those attending We stand corrected. |
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Fix the field if you want. I don't chase foul balls and I don't do groundskeeping (that includes brushing bases or pitcher's plates). I'm paid to umpire. |
I don't replace bases, rake Diamond Dry and spread Turface on wet spots...
I don't mend fencing/windscreens or hammer in stakes that are above the ground... I choose not to do these things because I've been under the impression that doing so may expose me to a liability I just don't need. While I am an umpire and consider myself above groundskeeping chores, I abstain from these things because other people are in charge of those duties. While it can certainly keep a game from grinding to a halt, my replacing a dislodged base most certainly exposes me to a potential lawsuit. Imagine a player slides into that base and claims that his fingers were broken because I had not anchored it flat to the ground. Beyond that, I had called time, fixed the base and then announced "Play" when I thought the conditions were safe. Many P.I. attorneys would love to have me do that. We have enough repsonsibility out there and need to dodge enough traps along the way to games' end. Looking for more trouble, even if your intentions were good, does not absolve you of culpability. G'day (in my best Paul Harvey voice). |
And now you know...the rest of the story!:)
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I DO know that I have been involved with LL longer than he has. And I can state that, any time I see a plate umpire set up on the "outside" shoulder of a catcher in a regional final game, is a bad thing. AK has the big job in W-port. Congratulations. LL, year in and year out, advocates a mightily flawed umpiring system at regional and WS levels. I've seen this personally. Some day, one of these poor souls is going to call an infield fly on a bunt attempt or kill the play on a catcher's INT, and a team (on TV) will get the short end of the stick on a key call (not a judgment) and a coach or a team will take it to the mat. And the umpire will be flat wrong. Players and coaches work hard to get to regional and WS levels of play. It is a shame and embarrassment when umpiring at those levels is shoddy, as it too often is. Ace |
Ace,
I didn't see the game in question, so I can't comment about the Smitty that worked the plate. But there is a precedent for working over the outside shoulder of the catcher. If the batter is extremely crowding the plate, and the catcher is setting up inside, this takes the umpire's slot away, and the other corner is the only possible place from which to get a good view of the pitch. Like I said, I didn't see what this guy looked like on this LL game, but I have been forced outside, and I have seen plenty of occurences in MLB games as well, as recently as last week. |
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His reply was: "That's nonsense." And I've been involved in baseball longer than you have. (grin) |
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Then I guess we don't play ball that day. But that's never happened, and it won't. |
Let's see,
I guess in alabama one umpire would picture me as "lazy" . . .
I would never help replace a dislodged base . . . ever . . . never! I am not a grounds keeper and I am not part of the "home team." Regards, |
Where you been WWTB? I didn't have anyone to stalk for over a month now. You really should let me know when your taking a vacation. :D
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A couple surgeons felt the need to do some work on this old body. Thanks for the card and flowers, it did my heart good to know you cared.
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Couldn't help myself.......:D |
That's too bad. I hope it's nothing serious. Take care and get well.
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It is and thank you.
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Well,
Last night rather than watching the LLWS I tuned to the Cal Ripken 12U game between Mexico/Canada. (I made the edit on Ripken, my humor was missed -- I guess.)
The plate umpire was far superior to any umpire I have EVER seen at the LLWS. BTW: Cal Ripken 12U is the ONLY organized National baseball program (for children) that has shown GROWTH in numbers over the past three years. Little League (tm) should start to be concerned. Regards, |
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I watched a little of the Cal Ripken WS and I saw Cal Ripken, Jr. talking about how starting next year CR will be going to 50 foot pitching and 70 foot bases in the 12u division. I don't know what those here think of that, but it sounds pretty good when you see 60.5 equivalents of 107 mph. |
LL league will have to do something. Watch today's game with Georgia (1:00 EST). If Kyle Carter pitches, you will see 80+ on the gun. Almost unhittable from 46 feet. 105mph + from 60'6".
As a coach/father of a team that competed in the SE regional, IMO, it won't be long before LL starts to resemble fastpitch softball (pitching dominated with lots of 1-0 games). Cal Ripken's got it right. The field needs to grow as the player grows. Also, what you are witnessing is a lot players (or in some cases complete teams, ours included) coming back to LL after playing travel *REAL* baseball (duck). They get out of LL because the local leagues are not competitive anymore and they get back in it for their final year of eligibility to give it one last shot. And with the age change effective this year, alot of these kids have been 13 for a while. Way too big for the LL field. |
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Also I saw blown rotations and coverages, as well as a few Smitty characteristics in the base umpires. Tee, the 3rd base umpire violated your "no fixing the bases rule." He looked like a regular groundskeeper. |
Gosh!
"I thought he looked very average, and he kept taking his mask off with his right hand, which brings up a red flag with me whenever I see that."
This the type of comment that DRIVES ME CRAZY when I read evaluations. Taking your mask off with your right hand has NOTHING to do with your quality as an umpire. As long as the mask is quickly moved to your left hand (so during an out call you aren't jabbing the mask around) there is NO DIFFERENCE of which hand was used. This is the type comment is the "easy out" used by evaluators to separate the field. Steve, you and I see umpiring from far different camps . . . you will always champion the weak, the young and those of the small diamond and I respect that. Please don't tell me you can evaluate an umpire's performance simply by which of his hands first touches his mask. Regards, |
It wasn't the determining factor, he just didn't stand out as above average to me.
I don't champion the weak, or necessarily those of the small diamond. I do champion umpires at all levels who strive to improve and become better officials. I call them just the way they are. Some are good, some are not, some are great, and some are terrible. I have no respect for those who don't try to get better. I don't think it is a positive attribute to have never worked sub-varsity games. These are games, as you admitted, that are much harder to work. The small diamond games are far more stressful than Varsity or above games. More stupid, third-world crap happens in them, and those who umpire them gain valuable experience because of it. Tee, from reading your posts this past year, I can tell that you really do fit the cliche of "you start out perfect, and improve from there." Like I said before, there are umpires here who are just like you. Too good (perceived self-image only) to work youth ball. Varsity only for them. Some of these clowns are horsesh*t umpires too, but think they are really great. They shouldn't be given games above JV, but only get Varsity assignments and great playoff games. Now, I'm sure that you are as great as you say you are. After all, you have pro baseball experience. But I don't understand the reason anyone thinks they are too good to work lower level ball, if called upon to do so. I know, your association only does high school. We don't do it that way here. You can request not to work youth ball if you so choose, but most people work whatever ball they are presented with after the HS season ends. And these guys are usually better umpires than the stuck up ones who won't work lower than Varsity. |
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I have seen first hand how taking off the mask with the right hand can cause (and did) cause a huge sh!t storm. 4A district play-offs. Winner goes to state, loser goes home. Visitors up by one. Bottom of 7, twos out, R3. R3 has been getting a bigger and bigger lead. For whatever reason, decides to steal home and is off on the pitch. PU steps back to 3BLX and, (go through the steps with me here) 1. takes off his mask with his right hand. 2. Transfers the mask to his left hand in front of his body. 3. Rings up R3. Here is what EVERYBODY in the stadium saw: PU calls runner safe and then when catcher throws ball to ground, PU calls runner out. The transfer looked precisely like a safe call....both hands came together in fron of the PU and then separated. After tagging the runner, the catcher lobbed the ball to the ground, as the PU signals out. Holy crap, did we have "issues" and it took every bit of restraint possible to not toss the home coach after the final out of the game. Yes, taking the mask of with the proper hand will remain part of our evaluation. |
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1. Is mask removal a taught mechanic at pro schools? 2. Which hand do you remove your mask with? |
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If it doesn't matter, then why do we teach the left handed mechanic at EVERY recognized school in the country? Which hand do you make your out call with? Try doing that with a mask in it. If it only matters that the call is made correctly, why wear uniforms - apperance has no place on a ball feld, right? Why not invent personalized hand signals for calls, I mean if the call is accurate, who cares what it looks like? Evaluations require adherence to an accepted standard, whether at work or on the ball field. Otherwise, we would see white socks, yellow shirts and blue jeans at the next championship game. Take a look at an NCAA evaluation form sometime and see how points are attributed to many criteria. While this may create robots, it also prevents free thinking and left handed out calls! (Again, who cares as long as the call is correct, right?) This had to have been a lapse in judgement or an attempt to bait for a future column. I have grown to repsect your opinions, even when we disagree. This one deviates from your normal tone though T. |
If my evaluation says "need to take my mask off with left hand"...then I'm pretty happy if that's all anyone is worried about.
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Exactomundo, mon frere...the fact that your evaluation form contains many provisions for analyzing accepted performance of duties says it all. Why not stand in the "C" position for all calls at first? There is a reason why certain mechanics are taught. For this example, the plate umpire needs to have his right hand empty to make calls correctly.
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I'm left handed and have called outs with my right hand since I started umpiring since I was told "that's how you do it." I eject people with my left hand, though :) |
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