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Carl Childress Sun Aug 13, 2006 01:15pm

Little League umpire in the regionals
 
The thread to which I responded has gone south. I don't know if I'll get everything in again, but....

Yesterday, my wife and I watched the Little Legion regional game between IA and MO.

The plate umpire was the best Little League umpire I've every seen on TV.

He is clearly a trained ump:

He used the Gerry Davis stance. (An umpire who followed on the West Coast seemed to want to do it but didn't know how.)

He verbalized his call on every pitch: "Ball." "Strike."

He waited for the pitch to end before making his call.

He used the umpire school hammer for strikes.

On a half swing ruled a strike, he pointed to the batter. On swinging strikes, he did not point and he simply signaled strike.

On a third strike swinging, he simply signaled strike.

He did not have dancing feet on pitches in the dirt, he kept his head steady (presumably he was tracking the pitch with his eyes).

He busted into the infield on every batted ball, mask in left hand, hat on his head.

Someone emailed privately to say the umpire lost the count twice in the same inning. My reply: Compared to what he did right, losing the count witg all the electronic counters on a national TV game was less than a pimple on an ant's a$$.

MO won, and they're going to the World Series. I imagine the umpire won't.

BTW: The only thing I saw him do wrong was call "Foul!" in a loud, commanding voice on obvious fouls. I'm told by a friend who should know that LL wants the umpires to do that.

I was surprised that the mandatory play rule was in effect as high as the regionals. They always suspend it for the World Series.

If you already replied to the other thread, you don't have to do it here. We can't rebuild the missing pieces. Gosh, I'm reminded of the midnight massacre when the Rhode Island flash struck down his posts.

GarthB Sun Aug 13, 2006 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Childress
The thread to which I responded has gone south. I don't know if I'll get everything in again, but....


If you already replied to the other thread, you don't have to do it here. We can't rebuild the missing pieces. Gosh, I'm reminded of the midnight massacre when the Rhode Island flash struck down his posts.

Carl,

I explained what happened in your thread "Missing LL Thread". Again, I apologize that some good posts had to be elminated to get rid of the nonsense.

socalblue1 Sun Aug 13, 2006 02:11pm

"I was surprised that the mandatory play rule was in effect as high as the regionals. They always suspend it for the World Series."

Carl, MPR is in effect during all levels LL Tourn'y play (has been for more than 10 years).

One could easily start a thread on the wild things that happen when LL managers don't get all the kids in ... just look at the what happened at the East Region semi-final Sat.

Dave Hensley Sun Aug 13, 2006 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Childress
Yesterday, my wife and I watched the Little Legion regional game between IA and MO.

The plate umpire was the best Little League umpire I've every seen on TV.

I agree he was very, very good. He was rock solid, had a perfectly appropriate strikezone, and as best as I could tell, never came close to missing a pitch.

He loses a couple of style points in my book for his fairly robotic, softball-style strike and out mechanics. And his shirt didn't quite fit over that +POS chest protector with 5,000 rivets.

A close second was the umpire in the first regional game, the Southeast region in Florida. Another very solid plate performance.

In fact, there hasn't been a bad plate performance yet, which supports the contention I've been making for awhile that "LL umpires" have come a long way, baby, compared to only a few years ago. Anyone who remembers "lobster claw man" will probably agree.

The only significant glitch in 5 games so far, is the blown call at 1B in the Southwest Region game, that took the game tying run off the scoreboard, in a game that finished 1-0. An unfortunate gross miss at the worst possible time.
[/QUOTE]

Quote:

MO won, and they're going to the World Series. I imagine the umpire won't.
He won't this year, because that's not the way LL regional and WS assignments work. You work one or the other, not both. This year's WS umpires are, this week, basking in the celebrity of "LLWS hype week;" they'll go to work next week. This year's regional umpires are, by their performances, positioning themselves in the pecking order for future LLWS assignments.

Quote:

I was surprised that the mandatory play rule was in effect as high as the regionals. They always suspend it for the World Series.
With respect to Little League rules, you should never say "never" or "always." The tournament rules are exactly the same at all levels of tournament play, and MPR has been part of the tournament rules, in some form or fashion, for several years now.

GarthB Sun Aug 13, 2006 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley
I agree he was very, very good. He was rock solid, had a perfectly appropriate strikezone, and as best as I could tell, never came close to missing a pitch.

He loses a couple of style points in my book for his fairly robotic, softball-style strike and out mechanics. And his shirt didn't quite fit over that +POS chest protector with 5,000 rivets.

In fact, there hasn't been a bad plate performance yet, which supports the contention I've been making for awhile that "LL umpires" have come a long way, baby, compared to only a few years ago. Anyone who remembers "lobster claw man" will probably agree.

I agree. The plate umps so far are better than last year's and far superior to those of just three years ago. The work on the bases is a little off, but some of that is probably due to some less than accepted mandated mechanics. However, the missed call at first was just plain horrid and unexcusable.

The next step for the LL umps who are positioning themselves for this level is to begin working on their appearance and conditioning.

Carl Childress Sun Aug 13, 2006 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalblue1
"I was surprised that the mandatory play rule was in effect as high as the regionals. They always suspend it for the World Series."

Carl, MPR is in effect during all levels LL Tourn'y play (has been for more than 10 years).

One could easily start a thread on the wild things that happen when LL managers don't get all the kids in ... just look at the what happened at the East Region semi-final Sat.

It is not in effect at the World Series. At least, it wasn't last year.

Tim C Sun Aug 13, 2006 02:56pm

Wow:
 
I have watched parts of five regional games so far.

UNTIL todays IL/IN game (with "Mr. Let me hide my arms behind my back") I was very, very impressed by the plate umpiring.

TWO things that LL managment REQUIRES from umpires:

1) All foul balls are to be called "FOUL" loudly and clearly and,

2) All bases are to be whisked clean after any play occurs.

While these things don't fly in "big boy ball" I can look past these edicts and see that umpring at the Regional Level has become vastly better in the last three years.

We'll have to wait for Friday to begin piling on the the horrible umpires that will be working.

Well all will be poor with the expecting of "JK" who will shine.

Regards,

CJN Sun Aug 13, 2006 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C
I have watched parts of five regional games so far.

UNTIL todays IL/IN game (with "Mr. Let me hide my arms behind my back") I was very, very impressed by the plate umpiring.


Yeah, the IL/IN was definitely the worst PU so far in the coverage. He did a lot of smitty things including pointing to the batter on pretty much every swinging strike call, pointing to first on ball four, and (as you mentioned) hiding his hands behind his back.

Dave Hensley Sun Aug 13, 2006 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Childress
It is not in effect at the World Series. At least, it wasn't last year.

Carl, you are just plain wrong. It was in effect, in exactly the same format as this year, at last year's LLWS.

From the 2005 tournament rules published by Little League:

2005 Tournament Rules and Guidelines for
Little League Baseball
9-10 Year Old Division Baseball, 11 Year Old Division,
Junior League, Senior League and Big League Baseball

Rules: Except where noted in these Tournament Rules and Guidelines, the Little League Baseball Official Regulations and Playing Rules will be used in the conduct of the 9-10 Year Old Division Tournament, the 11 Year old Division Tournament, the Little League Baseball Tournament, Junior League, Senior League and Big League Baseball Tournaments.

TOURNAMENT PLAYING RULES

9. MANDATORY PLAY: 9-10 Year Old Division, 11 Year Old Division, Little League,
Junior League, and Senior League: Every player on a team roster shall participate
in each game for a minimum of three (3) consecutive defensive outs and
bat at least one (1) time.

spots101 Sun Aug 13, 2006 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
I apologize that some good posts had to be elminated to get rid of the nonsense.

By nonsense I assume you're talking about the *****ing about LL umps and the organization as a whole again this year just like every year at this time. Yeah, come to think of it, you're right. It is a bunch of nonsense. Good call Garth!!

SanDiegoSteve Sun Aug 13, 2006 04:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by spots101
By nonsense I assume you're talking about the *****ing about LL umps and the organization as a whole again this year just like every year at this time. Yeah, come to think of it, you're right. It is a bunch of nonsense. Good call Garth!!

Like I said before, all the good umpires are too busy posting on this forum to work these LL games. Plus they couldn't afford to hire Rich, Garth, and Tee, so they aren't getting the "best" umpires for their games.:)

Carl Childress Sun Aug 13, 2006 04:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley
Carl, you are just plain wrong. It was in effect, in exactly the same format as this year, at last year's LLWS.

From the 2005 tournament rules published by Little League:

2005 Tournament Rules and Guidelines for
Little League Baseball
9-10 Year Old Division Baseball, 11 Year Old Division,
Junior League, Senior League and Big League Baseball

Rules: Except where noted in these Tournament Rules and Guidelines, the Little League Baseball Official Regulations and Playing Rules will be used in the conduct of the 9-10 Year Old Division Tournament, the 11 Year old Division Tournament, the Little League Baseball Tournament, Junior League, Senior League and Big League Baseball Tournaments.

TOURNAMENT PLAYING RULES

9. MANDATORY PLAY: 9-10 Year Old Division, 11 Year Old Division, Little League,
Junior League, and Senior League: Every player on a team roster shall participate
in each game for a minimum of three (3) consecutive defensive outs and
bat at least one (1) time.

I bow to superior knowledge.

Now tell me, is that the same MP rule used in the regular season?

GarthB Sun Aug 13, 2006 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by spots101
By nonsense I assume you're talking about the *****ing about LL umps and the organization as a whole again this year just like every year at this time. Yeah, come to think of it, you're right. It is a bunch of nonsense. Good call Garth!!


In the thread I deleted, NO ONE b!tched about the LL umps, nor the organization, and two LL umpires, Rich and Dave can attest to that. In fact, it contained many congratulatory comments towards the LL umpires working the televised games from so-called Big Dogs. It was an amazingly civil thread in that regard.

The only b!tching was aimed at posters.

Dave Hensley Sun Aug 13, 2006 05:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Childress
I bow to superior knowledge.

Now tell me, is that the same MP rule used in the regular season?

No, it is relaxed from regular season. Regular season MPR is 6 defensive outs and 1 at bat. Tournament is 3 consecutive defensive outs and 1 at bat.

Years ago, there was no MPR in tournament play. When they first introduced it, it was only at 12 and under levels (Juniors, Seniors and Big League had no MPR requirement) and it was a very easy to comply with 3 defensive outs OR 1 at bat. That eventually turned into 3 CDO AND 1 at bat, and in recent years they've expanded MPR requirements to, first, Junior League, and then, this year for the first time, Senior League (15-16). The only division exempt from MPR today is Big League (17-18).

Peruvian Sun Aug 13, 2006 06:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C

2) All bases are to be whisked clean after any play occurs.

Oh, good grief, I saw the third base umpire do that and almost s*** my pants. LL management mandates that?!?!

Carl Childress Sun Aug 13, 2006 07:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley
No, it is relaxed from regular season. Regular season MPR is 6 defensive outs and 1 at bat. Tournament is 3 consecutive defensive outs and 1 at bat.

Years ago, there was no MPR in tournament play. When they first introduced it, it was only at 12 and under levels (Juniors, Seniors and Big League had no MPR requirement) and it was a very easy to comply with 3 defensive outs OR 1 at bat. That eventually turned into 3 CDO AND 1 at bat, and in recent years they've expanded MPR requirements to, first, Junior League, and then, this year for the first time, Senior League (15-16). The only division exempt from MPR today is Big League (17-18).

Ok, that's what I was mixed up about. When we get to the big games, Johnny Fill-in has to play just the equivalent of one inning.

The games on TV have to look good, don't they?

Rich Sun Aug 13, 2006 08:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
I agree. The plate umps so far are better than last year's and far superior to those of just three years ago. The work on the bases is a little off, but some of that is probably due to some less than accepted mandated mechanics. However, the missed call at first was just plain horrid and unexcusable.

The next step for the LL umps who are positioning themselves for this level is to begin working on their appearance and conditioning.


They had new uniforms on and did a good job.

If you are saying they should only pick thin umpires, I think you are completely wrong. They should pick those who can do the job. Period.

Rich Sun Aug 13, 2006 08:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley
No, it is relaxed from regular season. Regular season MPR is 6 defensive outs and 1 at bat. Tournament is 3 consecutive defensive outs and 1 at bat.

Years ago, there was no MPR in tournament play. When they first introduced it, it was only at 12 and under levels (Juniors, Seniors and Big League had no MPR requirement) and it was a very easy to comply with 3 defensive outs OR 1 at bat. That eventually turned into 3 CDO AND 1 at bat, and in recent years they've expanded MPR requirements to, first, Junior League, and then, this year for the first time, Senior League (15-16). The only division exempt from MPR today is Big League (17-18).

Dave,

There is no MPR at the Senior Level this season. I just worked a district and state tourney.

--Rich

Dave Hensley Sun Aug 13, 2006 08:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
Dave,

There is no MPR at the Senior Level this season. I just worked a district and state tourney.

--Rich

You're right. It was in force last year but they eliminated it this year. Man, they make so many changes each year, you'd think somebody would come up with a chart, a cheat-sheet, to try to keep all the changes in all the different divisions straight. :)

Rich Sun Aug 13, 2006 08:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley
You're right. It was in force last year but they eliminated it this year. Man, they make so many changes each year, you'd think somebody would come up with a chart, a cheat-sheet, to try to keep all the changes in all the different divisions straight. :)

You ought to turn the cheat sheet into a 400 page book and sell it on some website :D

GarthB Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
They had new uniforms on and did a good job.

If you are saying they should only pick thin umpires, I think you are completely wrong. They should pick those who can do the job. Period.


I didn't say that. I said appearance and condition. That said, a 400 pound camel-toed PU who can't cover third when needed, or trail a B/R down the baseline, does not, I believe, possess the proper appearance or condition to officiate an athletic contest.

However, what I was referring to by appearacne in my post were those PU's whose shirts were too small to appropriately cover their gear and their bodies, and those who appeared to have some difficulty in their mobility. Thus, appearance and conditioning.

Rich Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
I didn't say that. I said appearance and condition. That said, a 400 pound camel-toed PU who can't cover third when needed, or trail a B/R down the baseline, does not, I believe, possess the proper appearance or condition to officiate an athletic contest.

However, what I was referring to by appearacne in my post were those PU's whose shirts were too small to appropriately cover their gear and their bodies, and those who appeared to have some difficulty in their mobility. Thus, appearance and conditioning.

If an official can't move to cover a 60-foot diamond, he should quit. Period.

aceholleran Mon Aug 14, 2006 01:15am

I saw a good one, too.
 
I thought the dish ump in the Alaska/Oregon game also did a fine job. A little high in the "Palermo" syance, but a nice job nonetheless. And damn, he looked no older than 35. This is a good thing, in my book.

Plus, he was one of the few I've seen at this level with a distinctly different call for swinging and taken strikes. Tucked in, spit-shined, crisp. And, IMHO, a great command of the LL "outside strike"--giving it on groin-high pitches, not giving it otherwise.

I've had two buddies do LL Eastern Regional games (12 yr old). Yes, they are adamantly told to wipe the bases, yell "foul" constantly, cut inside the infield on every batted ball (try doing this from deep C with sacks juiced!).

I agree with Garth that some of these guys look horrendously out of shape--keep them off the TV games, I say.

But, I must say that the level here has improved. Now wait for the WS--always an adventure.

Ace

bobbybanaduck Mon Aug 14, 2006 04:09am

garth said camel-toed. that's funny.

SanDiegoSteve Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:10pm

Pam Postema had a camel toe. Ria Cortesia as well.

EAGLE EYE Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:17pm

Southwest Regional
 
I saw where Dave stated that the blown call at 1B would have tied the game. The call went against the Louisiana team who won 1-0. The call actually would have put them up 2-0 at that time.

The umpire who made the call simply choked. He stated that he knew he blew the call when he made it. He is a good umpire, he just made a bad call.

I umpired this years SW Regional as well and will be calling this years LLWS. I can appreciate some constructive criticism and will be reading various forums for some feedback. I am not a professional umpire and I am sure there will be plenty of opportunity for criticism, so do your worst.

Some of you I respect and look forward to your remarks, others of you sound a lot like sour grapes and seem I'm guessing do your best umpiring on a public forum.

GarthB Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE
I saw where Dave stated that the blown call at 1B would have tied the game. The call went against the Louisiana team who won 1-0. The call actually would have put them up 2-0 at that time.

The umpire who made the call simply choked. He stated that he knew he blew the call when he made it. He is a good umpire, he just made a bad call.

I umpired this years SW Regional as well and will be calling this years LLWS. I can appreciate some constructive criticism and will be reading various forums for some feedback. I am not a professional umpire and I am sure there will be plenty of opportunity for criticism, so do your worst.

Some of you I respect and look forward to your remarks, others of you sound a lot like sour grapes and seem I'm guessing do your best umpiring on a public forum.

Best of wishes at the World Series. Overall, the quality of the umpiring so far has been vastly improved over previous years. Most of the umpires had perfomed extremely well and I'm sure you'll continue the trend.

PeteBooth Mon Aug 14, 2006 01:14pm

In fact, there hasn't been a bad plate performance yet, which supports the contention I've been making for awhile that "LL umpires" have come a long way, baby, compared to only a few years ago. Anyone who remembers "lobster claw man" will probably agree.

Dave I do not know their "resumes" but are they really LL umpires or are they Umpires who work LL.

I live in the east and have attened the regionals in Bristol Conn. Whenever I saw a really good plate performance and inquired I found out that the individual also did College ball, HS varsity etc.

You could also see a big "drop-off" when an Umpire who had the dish did Strictly LL compared to that as mentioned above.

Therefore, is the improvement in umpiring at the regionals over the past several years due to the fact that the umpires chosen also do "other" ball so that they are more relaxed and also well schooled as opposed to LL umpires getting better.

Pete Booth

GarthB Mon Aug 14, 2006 01:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBooth
Therefore, is the improvement in umpiring at the regionals over the past several years due to the fact that the umpires chosen also do "other" ball so that they are more relaxed and also well schooled as opposed to LL umpires getting better.

Pete Booth

Either way, the pool of umpires working LL Regionals and WS improves. And if it is due to "other" umpires choosing to work LL, it will force the "exclusively" LL umpire to improve to compete. It's a win-win for LL no matter the cause.

Carbide Keyman Mon Aug 14, 2006 01:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBooth
In fact, there hasn't been a bad plate performance yet, which supports the contention I've been making for awhile that "LL umpires" have come a long way, baby, compared to only a few years ago. Anyone who remembers "lobster claw man" will probably agree.

Dave I do not know their "resumes" but are they really LL umpires or are they Umpires who work LL.

I live in the east and have attened the regionals in Bristol Conn. Whenever I saw a really good plate performance and inquired I found out that the individual also did College ball, HS varsity etc.

You could also see a big "drop-off" when an Umpire who had the dish did Strictly LL compared to that as mentioned above.

Therefore, is the improvement in umpiring at the regionals over the past several years due to the fact that the umpires chosen also do "other" ball so that they are more relaxed and also well schooled as opposed to LL umpires getting better.

Pete Booth

Two of the umpires in the Bristol, Ct regionals are umpires who do HS varsity and Legion baseball.

Umpires who "do" LL .





Doug

spots101 Mon Aug 14, 2006 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
a 400 pound camel-toed PU

FYI - A camel-toe refers to women. A moose-knuckle refers to men who's pants split their boys.

GarthB Mon Aug 14, 2006 02:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by spots101
FYI - A camel-toe refers to women. A moose-knuckle refers to men who's pants split their boys.


http://www.cameltoe.org/

spots101 Mon Aug 14, 2006 02:47pm

I looked at the site and the symbol looks like a split labia not nuts.

GarthB Mon Aug 14, 2006 02:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by spots101
I looked at the site and the symbol looks like a split labia not nuts.

I guess that diverted you from checking the menu on the left side of the page.

Jurassic Referee Mon Aug 14, 2006 03:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB

Can cameltoe make a pitched ball rise?:confused:

Just wondering......

ctblu40 Mon Aug 14, 2006 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB

This has got to be one of the funniest web sites I've ever seen!
Thanks Garth... I will enjoy for many years to come!

GarthB Mon Aug 14, 2006 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Can cameltoe make a pitched ball rise?:confused:

Just wondering......

I don't know. But a sitting Dick can have a camel-toe.

http://www.cameltoe.org/images/CheneyToe.jpg

ctblu40 Mon Aug 14, 2006 03:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
I don't know. But a sitting Dick can have a camel-toe.

http://www.cameltoe.org/images/CheneyToe.jpg


ROFLMAO! :D :D

spots101 Mon Aug 14, 2006 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
I guess that diverted you from checking the menu on the left side of the page.

That one guy in the lime-green cycle shorts is pretty funny but it still doesn't look like the symbol in the upper left of the front page. I still say it's a moose-knuckle.

GarthB Mon Aug 14, 2006 03:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by spots101
That one guy in the lime-green cycle shorts is pretty funny but it still doesn't look like the symbol in the upper left of the front page. I still say it's a moose-knuckle.

Obviously you are far more knowledgeable in the male segment of this issue than I am, or care to be. No more argument from me. I yield to your expertise.

spots101 Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
Obviously you are far more knowledgeable in the male segment of this issue than I am, or care to be. No more argument from me. I yield to your expertise.

Cute but that's not my picture on your cameltoe website you Landis wannabe.

Dave Hensley Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAGLE EYE
I saw where Dave stated that the blown call at 1B would have tied the game. The call went against the Louisiana team who won 1-0. The call actually would have put them up 2-0 at that time.

I've confirmed you are correct that it was Lake Charles on offense when they were robbed of a run, not Mississippi. I stand humbly corrected.

socalblue1 Tue Aug 15, 2006 03:57am

Well, the string has been broken. Mid-Atlantic final Monday night - OMG, Smitty is back! Or should I say Smittly and his family?

1/2 kneeling/semi-sideways stance. Sometimes in the slot, often OUTSIDE, often right behind F2 (He only did that when F2 stood up so he could hide I guess). Never once went up 1B line for coverage. Zip presence - couldn't hear his strike call even with the mike. Never quite sure what all the hand waving meant. Hard to get fresh baseballs out of that gray bag with mask & indicator in right hand. About as crisp as an overdone noodle.

U1 - All calls from 1/4 step fair 20' up the line.
U2 - When he bounced in the ground shook. He did hustle every play.
U3 - Had a clue. stayed out of the infield except when needed. Was in position for every call, including when R2 missed 3B. (3B coach didn't argue either).
LFU - No calls observed
RFU - Two plays I saw he hustled to get into position, set and made his call.

Don't get me wrong - I have done my share of LL games.

Pete in AZ Tue Aug 15, 2006 04:54am

Had my laughs at the camel toe site, but I want to ask; what is the rotation on a six man system? The PU is supposed to come up to where on a 60' field?
These guys work for free and do a job that few of us want. Why all the sniping?

Dave Hensley Tue Aug 15, 2006 08:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalblue1
Well, the string has been broken. Mid-Atlantic final Monday night - OMG, Smitty is back! Or should I say Smittly and his family?

1/2 kneeling/semi-sideways stance. Sometimes in the slot, often OUTSIDE, often right behind F2 (He only did that when F2 stood up so he could hide I guess). Never once went up 1B line for coverage. Zip presence - couldn't hear his strike call even with the mike. Never quite sure what all the hand waving meant. Hard to get fresh baseballs out of that gray bag with mask & indicator in right hand. About as crisp as an overdone noodle.

U1 - All calls from 1/4 step fair 20' up the line.
U2 - When he bounced in the ground shook. He did hustle every play.
U3 - Had a clue. stayed out of the infield except when needed. Was in position for every call, including when R2 missed 3B. (3B coach didn't argue either).
LFU - No calls observed
RFU - Two plays I saw he hustled to get into position, set and made his call.

Don't get me wrong - I have done my share of LL games.

Yes, last night's game was a throwback to the good old days of good ol' boy, homegrown, "it ain't that hard to umpire" volunteer umpiring. It was a miracle that the game wasn't impacted by all the mechanical and positioning flaws exhibited by most of the crew.

ctblu40 Tue Aug 15, 2006 08:23am

I agree with socal on this one.

PU didn't seem to have a preferred head height. At times it seemed as though he was peeking around F2 to get a look. One of the most obvious to me was the indicator and mask in the right hand.

As for the sniping, I watch these guys for selfish reasons... to learn. That is to say, when I see their mistakes, I note that it doesn't look good and I don't want to be giulty of the same infraction.

Case in point, this same PU pointed at the batter on every swinging strike. It doesn't effect the game but just looks bad. I know that I'm guilty of the same thing at times, but seeing it will certainly help me break this bad habit.

Toadman15241 Tue Aug 15, 2006 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ
Had my laughs at the camel toe site, but I want to ask; what is the rotation on a six man system? The PU is supposed to come up to where on a 60' field?

Different crews are using different rotations. Some are having U2 go out on flyballs in the V (which I like). U3 is then covering 2b. Some crews have PU come up the line and cover 3b and have U1 rotate home. Other crews are having LFU come in to cover 3b. Other crews are just having LFU and RFU cover all flyballs and keeping the infield umps at their bases.

ctblu40 Tue Aug 15, 2006 09:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadman15241
Other crews are having LFU come in to cover 3b.

I have never heard of this mechanic before. :confused: Is this something that is a directive from various LL Regional offices?

Rich Tue Aug 15, 2006 09:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctblu40
I have never heard of this mechanic before. :confused: Is this something that is a directive from various LL Regional offices?

It's a standard 6-man rotation -- actually, the only six-man rotation if you use ULF.

U2 goes out, U3 covers second, ULF covers third.

ctblu40 Tue Aug 15, 2006 09:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
It's a standard 6-man rotation -- actually, the only six-man rotation if you use ULF.

U2 goes out, U3 covers second, ULF covers third.

WOW... even on a big field? That seems like a lot of running for ULF. I'll take your word for it Rich... actually I'm going to grab a manual right quick...





(dead space to represent my digging out the CCA book)













Oh... hmmm.... learn something new every day! Thanks Rich. ;)

Rich Tue Aug 15, 2006 09:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctblu40
WOW... even on a big field? That seems like a lot of running for ULF. I'll take your word for it Rich... actually I'm going to grab a manual right quick...





(dead space to represent my digging out the CCA book)













Oh... hmmm.... learn something new every day! Thanks Rich. ;)

Actually, ULF doesn't work too much deeper than U3 in 6-man. Certainly in far enough to cover third if U2 goes out and U3 covers second.

The other rotation I've seen used is ignoring the line umpires and having U2 go out, U3 cover second, PU cover third, and U1 cover the plate (just like 4 man). While this boxes in every fly ball where U2 goes out, it seems like too much unnecessary rotation with 6 umpires.

socalblue1 Tue Aug 15, 2006 04:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarthB
6 man coverage, itself, seems unnecessary with 60' bases. In one game, ULF and U3 were positioned close enough to have shaken hands.

Garth,

It is. LL uses 6 so they can get as many umpires the "Regional/World Series experience".

Rich Ives Tue Aug 15, 2006 09:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peruvian
Oh, good grief, I saw the third base umpire do that and almost s*** my pants. LL management mandates that?!?!

I think it's ESPN that wants this.

BTW, the only time I saw a base whisked was when the breakaway top popped off and, following the manufacturers instructions, the base plate was cleaned before the top is snapped back on.

socalblue1 Wed Aug 16, 2006 01:45am

Rich,

The 6 umpire deal at regionals started way before ESPN.

I can understand a brush with the new style break away bases. No other way to clean it out except a hose.

I can just see the backpack water pack on Lance now ...

Rich Wed Aug 16, 2006 07:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalblue1
Rich,

The 6 umpire deal at regionals started way before ESPN.

I can understand a brush with the new style break away bases. No other way to clean it out except a hose.

I can just see the backpack water pack on Lance now ...

Our best field has magnetic breakaways and the bottom is held in place with a traditional peg. No need for a brush.

Besides, the umpires should be calling for a groundskeeper when the bases come out.

socalblue1 Wed Aug 16, 2006 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
Our best field has magnetic breakaways and the bottom is held in place with a traditional peg. No need for a brush.

Besides, the umpires should be calling for a groundskeeper when the bases come out.

Rich,

Not all leagues are smart enough to use the magnetic style (IMO the best choice of all). Many are using the old type break-away bases that have a large square hollow receptacle on the peg & male end on the actual base. When these fill with dirt it's a pain clean out. Of course these are the fields that have no staffing and usually nothing more than a rake & drag. It's use a brush or stop playing.

Now using the brush on the base is a whole different animal.

SanDiegoSteve Wed Aug 16, 2006 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
Besides, the umpires should be calling for a groundskeeper when the bases come out.

Oh waiter....could you bring me a Perrier while the grounds crew is cleaning the base?

Rich Wed Aug 16, 2006 07:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Oh waiter....could you bring me a Perrier while the grounds crew is cleaning the base?

I walk away from it....I'm serious. Let a coach or player fix it if there's no grounds crew.

NFump Wed Aug 16, 2006 08:10pm

Why? Fix it and get the game moving again.

Rich Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFump
Why? Fix it and get the game moving again.

Because I'm an umpire, not a groundskeeper. I thought I had already covered this.

AlabamaBlue Thu Aug 17, 2006 08:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
Because I'm an umpire, not a groundskeeper. I thought I had already covered this.


Are you serious?

bob jenkins Thu Aug 17, 2006 08:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlabamaBlue
Are you serious?

I agree with Rich. It might depend on the age of tha participants or the local custom, though.

ctblu40 Thu Aug 17, 2006 09:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
Because I'm an umpire, not a groundskeeper. I thought I had already covered this.

I've never really thought of this before, that being said, I kinda like Rich's style on this one. But I do have a question for you Rich:

Suppose the base breaks away, and the coach is yelling from the dugout, "Hey blue, the base is off."
Do you ignore him?
Do you tell him to fix it?
Do you tell a player to take care of it?

Aren't you running the risk of being perceived as a red a$$?

AlabamaBlue Thu Aug 17, 2006 09:14am

It just seems lazy as hell to me. If I can get the base back on and the game going in 30 seconds, why would I wait 5 minutes for somebody to go get a groundskeeper to fix it? I'm not too good to help out.

LMan Thu Aug 17, 2006 09:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlabamaBlue
It just seems lazy as hell to me. If I can get the base back on and the game going in 30 seconds, why would I wait 5 minutes for somebody to go get a groundskeeper to fix it? I'm not too good to help out.

Whenever this happens to me, the coach (es) always run out and reattach the bag. I don't plan to get on my hands and knees and fiddle with bases when there are coaches to do it.

bob jenkins Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlabamaBlue
It just seems lazy as hell to me. If I can get the base back on and the game going in 30 seconds, why would I wait 5 minutes for somebody to go get a groundskeeper to fix it? I'm not too good to help out.

There are 3 "groundkeepers" right by the base (the runner, F4 and F6 -- it usually happens at second), and a dozen more sitting in the home team dugout.

AlabamaBlue Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
There are 3 "groundkeepers" right by the base (the runner, F4 and F6 -- it usually happens at second), and a dozen more sitting in the home team dugout.

And if they all held the same opinion as the high-and-mighty umpire? That they're players/coaches and not groundskeepers?

bob jenkins Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlabamaBlue
And if they all held the same opinion as the high-and-mighty umpire? That they're players/coaches and not groundskeepers?

AFAIK, it's the home team's responsibility to make (and keep) the field ready for play.

It's never been an issue, for me.

GarthB Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlabamaBlue
And if they all held the same opinion as the high-and-mighty umpire? That they're players/coaches and not groundskeepers?

Most of the time they are groundskeepers. Ever show up early enought to see the field getting prepped and bases laid out? Ever look back at the field on your way to your car to see the infifield getting raked and dragged? Are those umpires doing that?

aceholleran Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:41am

Rotation, loose bases, masks but no moose knuckle
 
The dish guy on the Mid Atlantic game was ridiculous. The first putch I saw, he was in the outside slot (of there is such a nether region).

There was another regional final where the plate was done by Mr. Rip Maskandhatoff. Any foul ball near the plate, his sh&t came flying off. Best of all (I saw this only once) he took off his gear to APPEAL TO U1 ON A CHECKED SWING.

I have done LLSB at Regional level (both Majors and Seniors). I once had a daisy show up at one of these games ( I was PU) wearing off-white canvas shoes and sporting a jaunty red flag in her back pocket. She then proceeded to call an illegal pitch on the starter from Mass. ON THE PENULTIMATE PITCH OF THE GAME! So, LLSB WS ineptitude doesn't surprise me. I watched the WS a couple of years ago, only to see the Guinness Interplanetary Record for Highest Pitch Called a Strike. Gave new meaning to the term "cutthroat."

From my buds who have worked in Bristol: 3 base umps NEVER go out. They are instructed to get inside on every batted ball. Of course, this makes for a magnificent clusterf*ck. LF and RF umps have all catches, fence calls, etc.

I humbly think that most of the umps I've seen on the baselines make me look like a Biafran supermodel. Which is saying something.

Yes, I'm not a groundkepper. I get the kids to fix the bases. If it's really bad, I summon a coach, parent or groundkeeper. It's just not my job; plus I am cleaned, pressed and starched at every game.

Okay, I feel better now.

Ace

I'mOklahoma! Thu Aug 17, 2006 09:57pm

Mr. Rip Maskandhatoff is too funny! And I'm not fixing your bases either! My knuckles will get all scraped up. I'll leave it for the rats.

Carl Childress Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceholleran
The dish guy on the Mid Atlantic game was ridiculous. The first pitch I saw, he was in the outside slot (of there is such a nether region).Ace

Here's part of email I received from Andy Konyar:

Glad you enjoyed the game and your friend "who should know" doesn't know what he is talking about. While some clinicians in some areas want a foul called out loudly, LL does not dictate that they do it that way. Just like in any other program, some personal preferences get relayed to those attending

We stand corrected.

Rich Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWL
And if either team isn't responsible for dragging, picking up bases and general maintenance after a game..........

That must be one long stare down.

What happened to WWTB? I need to hear his "Paul Harvey" voice of logic.

Even a Rutism would make better sense than some of these "ramble ons".

You should talk. This post of yours makes it seem like you've had one too many to drink.

Fix the field if you want. I don't chase foul balls and I don't do groundskeeping (that includes brushing bases or pitcher's plates). I'm paid to umpire.

WhatWuzThatBlue Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:24am

I don't replace bases, rake Diamond Dry and spread Turface on wet spots...
I don't mend fencing/windscreens or hammer in stakes that are above the ground...

I choose not to do these things because I've been under the impression that doing so may expose me to a liability I just don't need. While I am an umpire and consider myself above groundskeeping chores, I abstain from these things because other people are in charge of those duties.

While it can certainly keep a game from grinding to a halt, my replacing a dislodged base most certainly exposes me to a potential lawsuit. Imagine a player slides into that base and claims that his fingers were broken because I had not anchored it flat to the ground. Beyond that, I had called time, fixed the base and then announced "Play" when I thought the conditions were safe. Many P.I. attorneys would love to have me do that.

We have enough repsonsibility out there and need to dodge enough traps along the way to games' end. Looking for more trouble, even if your intentions were good, does not absolve you of culpability.

G'day (in my best Paul Harvey voice).

SanDiegoSteve Fri Aug 18, 2006 01:04am

And now you know...the rest of the story!:)

aceholleran Fri Aug 18, 2006 01:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Childress
Here's part of email I received from Andy Konyar:

Glad you enjoyed the game and your friend "who should know" doesn't know what he is talking about. While some clinicians in some areas want a foul called out loudly, LL does not dictate that they do it that way. Just like in any other program, some personal preferences get relayed to those attending

We stand corrected.

I have no idea what Andy Konyar is talking about, since I didn't see your post to him.

I DO know that I have been involved with LL longer than he has.

And I can state that, any time I see a plate umpire set up on the "outside" shoulder of a catcher in a regional final game, is a bad thing.

AK has the big job in W-port. Congratulations. LL, year in and year out, advocates a mightily flawed umpiring system at regional and WS levels. I've seen this personally.

Some day, one of these poor souls is going to call an infield fly on a bunt attempt or kill the play on a catcher's INT, and a team (on TV) will get the short end of the stick on a key call (not a judgment) and a coach or a team will take it to the mat. And the umpire will be flat wrong.

Players and coaches work hard to get to regional and WS levels of play. It is a shame and embarrassment when umpiring at those levels is shoddy, as it too often is.

Ace

SanDiegoSteve Fri Aug 18, 2006 02:20am

Ace,

I didn't see the game in question, so I can't comment about the Smitty that worked the plate. But there is a precedent for working over the outside shoulder of the catcher. If the batter is extremely crowding the plate, and the catcher is setting up inside, this takes the umpire's slot away, and the other corner is the only possible place from which to get a good view of the pitch. Like I said, I didn't see what this guy looked like on this LL game, but I have been forced outside, and I have seen plenty of occurences in MLB games as well, as recently as last week.

Carl Childress Fri Aug 18, 2006 07:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceholleran
I have no idea what Andy Konyar is talking about, since I didn't see your post to him. Ace

Ace: He replied to a private email. I sent him my comments about the umpire in the IA/MO game, which was the FIRST message in this thread. I said a friend of mine who should know say umpires at LLWS were instructed to call "Foul" every timie.

His reply was: "That's nonsense."

And I've been involved in baseball longer than you have. (grin)

Dave Hensley Fri Aug 18, 2006 08:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Childress
Ace: He replied to a private email. I sent him my comments about the umpire in the IA/MO game, which was the FIRST message in this thread. I said a friend of mine who should know say umpires at LLWS were instructed to call "Foul" every timie.

His reply was: "That's nonsense."

And I've been involved in baseball longer than you have. (grin)

Umpiring in general, and Little League umpiring in particular, has a very large component of mentoring in it. Rookies learn from vets, over and over. Given the historical lack of formal training available to Little League umpires (the regional schools are really only an invention of the last decade or so, at best), I think the "screaming foul" mechanic is, rather than being a formally taught mechanic, simply a learned mechanic from what was, just like so many of the other things we see such as "weird" strike call mechanics, a homegrown monkey-see, monkey-do situation that has perpetuated itself throughout the organization.

LMan Fri Aug 18, 2006 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlabamaBlue
And if they all held the same opinion as the high-and-mighty umpire? That they're players/coaches and not groundskeepers?


Then I guess we don't play ball that day.



But that's never happened, and it won't.

Tim C Fri Aug 18, 2006 08:28am

Let's see,
 
I guess in alabama one umpire would picture me as "lazy" . . .

I would never help replace a dislodged base . . . ever . . . never!

I am not a grounds keeper and I am not part of the "home team."

Regards,

NFump Fri Aug 18, 2006 06:31pm

Where you been WWTB? I didn't have anyone to stalk for over a month now. You really should let me know when your taking a vacation. :D

WhatWuzThatBlue Fri Aug 18, 2006 07:35pm

A couple surgeons felt the need to do some work on this old body. Thanks for the card and flowers, it did my heart good to know you cared.

Jurassic Referee Fri Aug 18, 2006 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
A couple surgeons felt the need to do some work on this old body. Thanks for the card and flowers, it did my heart good to know you cared.

Hysterectomy?

Couldn't help myself.......:D

NFump Fri Aug 18, 2006 08:45pm

That's too bad. I hope it's nothing serious. Take care and get well.

WhatWuzThatBlue Fri Aug 18, 2006 09:45pm

It is and thank you.

Tim C Sat Aug 19, 2006 08:12am

Well,
 
Last night rather than watching the LLWS I tuned to the Cal Ripken 12U game between Mexico/Canada. (I made the edit on Ripken, my humor was missed -- I guess.)

The plate umpire was far superior to any umpire I have EVER seen at the LLWS.

BTW: Cal Ripken 12U is the ONLY organized National baseball program (for children) that has shown GROWTH in numbers over the past three years.

Little League (tm) should start to be concerned.

Regards,

CJN Sat Aug 19, 2006 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C
Last night rather than watching the LLWS I tuned to the Cal Ripkin 12U game between Mexico/Canada.

The plate umpire was far superior to any umpire I have EVER seen at the LLWS.

BTW: Cal Ripkin 12U is the ONLY organized National baseball program (for children) that has shown GROWTH in numbers over the past three years.

Little League (tm) should start to be concerned.


I watched a little of the Cal Ripken WS and I saw Cal Ripken, Jr. talking about how starting next year CR will be going to 50 foot pitching and 70 foot bases in the 12u division. I don't know what those here think of that, but it sounds pretty good when you see 60.5 equivalents of 107 mph.

midtnblu Sat Aug 19, 2006 09:54am

LL league will have to do something. Watch today's game with Georgia (1:00 EST). If Kyle Carter pitches, you will see 80+ on the gun. Almost unhittable from 46 feet. 105mph + from 60'6".

As a coach/father of a team that competed in the SE regional, IMO, it won't be long before LL starts to resemble fastpitch softball (pitching dominated with lots of 1-0 games).

Cal Ripken's got it right. The field needs to grow as the player grows.

Also, what you are witnessing is a lot players (or in some cases complete teams, ours included) coming back to LL after playing travel *REAL* baseball (duck). They get out of LL because the local leagues are not competitive anymore and they get back in it for their final year of eligibility to give it one last shot. And with the age change effective this year, alot of these kids have been 13 for a while. Way too big for the LL field.

GarthB Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C

BTW: Cal Ripken 12U is the ONLY organized National baseball program (for children) that has shown GROWTH in numbers over the past three years.

Little League (tm) should start to be concerned.

Regards,

Since Cal Ripken Baseball is an age dvision of the Babe Ruth League, does this mean that Babe Ruth is seeing an increase, or just the Ripken age level?

SanDiegoSteve Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C
The plate umpire was far superior to any umpire I have EVER seen at the LLWS.

Really? Because I wasn't that impressed. I thought he looked very average, and he kept taking his mask off with his right hand, which brings up a red flag with me whenever I see that.

Also I saw blown rotations and coverages, as well as a few Smitty characteristics in the base umpires.

Tee, the 3rd base umpire violated your "no fixing the bases rule." He looked like a regular groundskeeper.

Tim C Sat Aug 19, 2006 03:08pm

Gosh!
 
"I thought he looked very average, and he kept taking his mask off with his right hand, which brings up a red flag with me whenever I see that."

This the type of comment that DRIVES ME CRAZY when I read evaluations.

Taking your mask off with your right hand has NOTHING to do with your quality as an umpire.

As long as the mask is quickly moved to your left hand (so during an out call you aren't jabbing the mask around) there is NO DIFFERENCE of which hand was used.

This is the type comment is the "easy out" used by evaluators to separate the field.

Steve, you and I see umpiring from far different camps . . . you will always champion the weak, the young and those of the small diamond and I respect that.

Please don't tell me you can evaluate an umpire's performance simply by which of his hands first touches his mask.

Regards,

SanDiegoSteve Sat Aug 19, 2006 04:52pm

It wasn't the determining factor, he just didn't stand out as above average to me.

I don't champion the weak, or necessarily those of the small diamond. I do champion umpires at all levels who strive to improve and become better officials.

I call them just the way they are. Some are good, some are not, some are great, and some are terrible. I have no respect for those who don't try to get better.

I don't think it is a positive attribute to have never worked sub-varsity games. These are games, as you admitted, that are much harder to work. The small diamond games are far more stressful than Varsity or above games. More stupid, third-world crap happens in them, and those who umpire them gain valuable experience because of it.

Tee, from reading your posts this past year, I can tell that you really do fit the cliche of "you start out perfect, and improve from there."

Like I said before, there are umpires here who are just like you. Too good (perceived self-image only) to work youth ball. Varsity only for them. Some of these clowns are horsesh*t umpires too, but think they are really great. They shouldn't be given games above JV, but only get Varsity assignments and great playoff games.

Now, I'm sure that you are as great as you say you are. After all, you have pro baseball experience. But I don't understand the reason anyone thinks they are too good to work lower level ball, if called upon to do so. I know, your association only does high school. We don't do it that way here. You can request not to work youth ball if you so choose, but most people work whatever ball they are presented with after the HS season ends. And these guys are usually better umpires than the stuck up ones who won't work lower than Varsity.

GarthB Sat Aug 19, 2006 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C
[B]

Taking your mask off with your right hand has NOTHING to do with your quality as an umpire.

As long as the mask is quickly moved to your left hand (so during an out call you aren't jabbing the mask around) there is NO DIFFERENCE of which hand was used.

This is the type comment is the "easy out" used by evaluators to separate the field.

Please don't tell me you can evaluate an umpire's performance simply by which of his hands first touches his mask.

Hopefully, friends may disagree on this.

I have seen first hand how taking off the mask with the right hand can cause (and did) cause a huge sh!t storm.

4A district play-offs. Winner goes to state, loser goes home. Visitors up by one. Bottom of 7, twos out, R3. R3 has been getting a bigger and bigger lead. For whatever reason, decides to steal home and is off on the pitch.

PU steps back to 3BLX and, (go through the steps with me here) 1. takes off his mask with his right hand. 2. Transfers the mask to his left hand in front of his body. 3. Rings up R3.

Here is what EVERYBODY in the stadium saw: PU calls runner safe and then when catcher throws ball to ground, PU calls runner out.

The transfer looked precisely like a safe call....both hands came together in fron of the PU and then separated.

After tagging the runner, the catcher lobbed the ball to the ground, as the PU signals out.

Holy crap, did we have "issues" and it took every bit of restraint possible to not toss the home coach after the final out of the game.

Yes, taking the mask of with the proper hand will remain part of our evaluation.

Dave Hensley Sat Aug 19, 2006 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C
"I thought he looked very average, and he kept taking his mask off with his right hand, which brings up a red flag with me whenever I see that."

This the type of comment that DRIVES ME CRAZY when I read evaluations.

Taking your mask off with your right hand has NOTHING to do with your quality as an umpire.

As long as the mask is quickly moved to your left hand (so during an out call you aren't jabbing the mask around) there is NO DIFFERENCE of which hand was used.

This is the type comment is the "easy out" used by evaluators to separate the field.

Steve, you and I see umpiring from far different camps . . . you will always champion the weak, the young and those of the small diamond and I respect that.

Please don't tell me you can evaluate an umpire's performance simply by which of his hands first touches his mask.

Regards,

Two questions:
1. Is mask removal a taught mechanic at pro schools?
2. Which hand do you remove your mask with?

WhatWuzThatBlue Sat Aug 19, 2006 08:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C.
Taking your mask off with your right hand has NOTHING to do with your quality as an umpire.

As long as the mask is quickly moved to your left hand (so during an out call you aren't jabbing the mask around) there is NO DIFFERENCE of which hand was used.

I humbly disagree with this opinion.

If it doesn't matter, then why do we teach the left handed mechanic at EVERY recognized school in the country? Which hand do you make your out call with? Try doing that with a mask in it.

If it only matters that the call is made correctly, why wear uniforms - apperance has no place on a ball feld, right?

Why not invent personalized hand signals for calls, I mean if the call is accurate, who cares what it looks like?

Evaluations require adherence to an accepted standard, whether at work or on the ball field. Otherwise, we would see white socks, yellow shirts and blue jeans at the next championship game. Take a look at an NCAA evaluation form sometime and see how points are attributed to many criteria. While this may create robots, it also prevents free thinking and left handed out calls! (Again, who cares as long as the call is correct, right?)

This had to have been a lapse in judgement or an attempt to bait for a future column. I have grown to repsect your opinions, even when we disagree. This one deviates from your normal tone though T.

midtnblu Sat Aug 19, 2006 09:40pm

If my evaluation says "need to take my mask off with left hand"...then I'm pretty happy if that's all anyone is worried about.

WhatWuzThatBlue Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:53am

Exactomundo, mon frere...the fact that your evaluation form contains many provisions for analyzing accepted performance of duties says it all. Why not stand in the "C" position for all calls at first? There is a reason why certain mechanics are taught. For this example, the plate umpire needs to have his right hand empty to make calls correctly.

Rich Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Exactomundo, mon frere...the fact that your evaluation form contains many provisions for analyzing accepted performance of duties says it all. Why not stand in the "C" position for all calls at first? There is a reason why certain mechanics are taught. For this example, the plate umpire needs to have his right hand empty to make calls correctly.

I've always wondered why outs MUST be called with the right hand. If an umpire takes his mask off with his right hand and punches a runner with his left hand, what harm would it do, other than get traditionalist umpires' panties in a knot?

I'm left handed and have called outs with my right hand since I started umpiring since I was told "that's how you do it." I eject people with my left hand, though :)

SanDiegoSteve Sun Aug 20, 2006 01:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
I've always wondered why outs MUST be called with the right hand. If an umpire takes his mask off with his right hand and punches a runner with his left hand, what harm would it do, other than get traditionalist umpires' panties in a knot?

I'm left handed and have called outs with my right hand since I started umpiring since I was told "that's how you do it." I eject people with my left hand, though :)

Do you have to transfer the mask to your right hand to give your ejection mechanic?


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