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-   -   Retired batter Interference (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/27735-retired-batter-interference.html)

mcrowder Wed Aug 09, 2006 01:19pm
Retired batter Interference
 
Thought I had this one straight from reading here ... but maybe not.

R1 stealing 2nd... Batter swings hard and misses at strike three, and falls over the plate, colliding with catcher, who then throws poorly to 2nd base due to the contact.

Ruling?

UmpJM Wed Aug 09, 2006 01:25pm
mcrowder,

R1 is out due to the interference of his "just retired" teammate under OBR. Any other runners return.

Under FED, the umpire must judge that the catcher "would have" retired the R1 absent the interference in order to rule him out. If the umpire judges the catcher had no chance to retire the stealing runner, the runner is NOT out, but must return to his TOP base.

(Ref.: BRD #266)

JM

DG Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJM
Under FED, the umpire must judge that the catcher "would have" retired the R1 absent the interference in order to rule him out. If the umpire judges the catcher had no chance to retire the stealing runner, the runner is NOT out, but must return to his TOP base.
That's an easy decision.

gordon30307 Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:03pm
[QUOTE=CoachJM]mcrowder,

R1 is out due to the interference of his "just retired" teammate under OBR. Any other runners return.

Under FED, the umpire must judge that the catcher "would have" retired the R1 absent the interference in order to rule him out. If the umpire judges the catcher had no chance to retire the stealing runner, the runner is NOT out, but must return to his TOP base.

(Ref.: BRD #266)

Under Fed if it's strike three and the batter interferes the runners attempting to steal (this will always be my judgement) will be out. If it's not strike three I may or may not call the runner out.

ctblu40 Mon Aug 14, 2006 01:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
. If it's not strike three I may or may not call the runner out.
If its not strike three, what rule are you using to call the runner out? In all codes, if there is batters interference, the batter is called out for his actions, the runneres return to TOP bases.

gordon30307 Mon Aug 14, 2006 08:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctblu40
If its not strike three, what rule are you using to call the runner out? In all codes, if there is batters interference, the batter is called out for his actions, the runneres return to TOP bases.
As per high schools if you feel the batter interfering with the catcher prevented the runner from being thrown out the runner can be called out as well. Judgement call by PU.

UmpJM Mon Aug 14, 2006 09:04pm
gordon30307,

As per high school rules, if the batter is not already out and the runner is not attempting to advance to home, there is no basis in the rules for calling the runner out.

Calling the runner out in such a case would NOT be a "judgment call", it would be a gross (and protestable) misapplication of the rules.

BTW, I have no issue with you (and, I believe DG) suggesting that, in your judgment, the catcher always would have had a chance to retire the stealing runner absent the batter's interference.

JM

TussAgee11 Mon Aug 14, 2006 09:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJM
gordon30307,

BTW, I have no issue with you (and, I believe DG) suggesting that, in your judgment, the catcher always would have had a chance to retire the stealing runner absent the batter's interference.

JM
Not if there has been some sort of bobble, or F1 for some reason pitched from the windup (seen it done too often).

ctblu40 Tue Aug 15, 2006 08:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
As per high schools if you feel the batter interfering with the catcher prevented the runner from being thrown out the runner can be called out as well. Judgement call by PU.
Hmmm.... I've never heard of this. Can you back this up with a specific rule from the NFHS book?

ctblu40 Tue Aug 15, 2006 03:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
I do know in FED in this situation if the runner is put out to not kill the play. Not exactly sure in other rule sets.
This is the same in all codes. If the throw doesn't result in a runner being put out, the ball becomes dead at that point, and the batter is declared out.

Rember that the ball should be killed immediately when the stealing runner makes it safely into the base he's attempting.

For example- No count, R1 stealing. Batter interferes with F2, and F2's throw goes over 2nd base and into centerfield. PU should call time as soon as R1 touches 2nd base safely. R1 is returned to first base, BR out for interference.

Tim C Tue Aug 15, 2006 03:55pm
Nope
 
"As per high schools if you feel the batter interfering with the catcher prevented the runner from being thrown out the runner can be called out as well. Judgement call by PU."

This is an incorrect statement under NFHS rules.

It is also incorrect in grammar usage.

Regards,

ctblu40 Tue Aug 15, 2006 04:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
I think you misunderstood. If the catcher makes the play on the runner from third, ignore the interference. Ball is live and in play. Do not kill the play, they may have a chance at a another possible out or potential for making an error and allowing the offense an advantage. Interference and no play on runner in this situation, dead ball, runner out, all other runners return.

In your example which is a delayed dead ball, the rule doesn't say to kill the ball immediately. Center fielder could pick up the ball and throw the runner out advancing to third. You can always return runner to first when action ceases. I would wait until the play finishes since it is a delayed dead call.

Remember delayed dead ball..........

I am talking about FED which is what I predominately do.
I was thinkink OBR.

However, if you read the delayed dead ball table carefully, activity 1 states,"Interference by batter when attempted put out is on a runner other than at home." And Awards or Penalties 1 reads, "With two out, batter is out. Otherwise, if attempt on runner is unsuccessful, ball is dead, batter is out, and runners return. If third strike, batter is out and umpire can call a second out." (Rule 5-1-2a)
My emphasis.

I see this as saying that as soon as the attempt is unsuccessful, the ball becomes dead.

What do some of you big dogs think? Am I thinking in line with OBR too much?

NFump Tue Aug 15, 2006 05:16pm
You got it for OBR. Fed 7-3-5 for the third strike sitch.

ctblu40 Tue Aug 15, 2006 07:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
Batter is out and runners return with runners on second and first and the ball is a delayed dead ball call. Let the runner run until all action ceases. If he is put out at a succeeding base, ignore the interference. If he advances past second or third. Return him to first or second. Less than two outs runner from third and BI, runner is DECLARED out and ball is immediately dead. Two outs, batter is always out in both situation.
I don't think you're reading this rule correctly. If the runner is attempting second or third, as soon as the attempt on the runner is unsuccessful, ball is dead, batter is out, and runners return. The text in bold is directly out of the FED dead/delayed dead ball table. I guess the question then is when should PU kill the play. I think as soon as the attempt to put out the stealing runner fails.

For example, R1 stealing, throw into center field. R1 hops up and advances to third or home with possible plays at either base. If you're just going to send him back to first anyway, why all the unnecessary running and throwing?

GarthB Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
As per high schools if you feel the batter interfering with the catcher prevented the runner from being thrown out the runner can be called out as well. Judgement call by PU.
Huh? This is wrong on multiple levels.

First, I don't feel batters whether they are interfering with the catcher or not.

Secondly, this is not, in any regard, a correct statement concerning the FED rule.


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