Did you see

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Yes, and the last such example of that was with a reporter named Judith Miller.

Is the "not some right-winger" guy as upset with the Wall Street Journal as he is with the New York Times. If you compare their reporting - particularly on the stories that have gotten the current administration all hot and bothered with respect to the allegation that they have spilled state secrets, you will see that both publications have reported the same things, with the same level of detail, at the same time.

Dave,

I hate the WSJ. It has a lousy sports section.

I consider myself middle of the road these days, so you must be talking about someone else

--Rich

PS -- Isn't it about time for the traditional LL bashing threads? I mean, U1 kicked the crap out of that call last night and I haven't seen anything here posted about it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I mean, U1 kicked the crap out of that call last night and I haven't seen anything here posted about it.

That was the most brutal call I've ever seen, bar none! Took runs off the board, for sure.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Dave,

PS -- Isn't it about time for the traditional LL bashing threads? I mean, U1 kicked the crap out of that call last night and I haven't seen anything here posted about it.

Let the bloodletting begin.

Missing a banger is one thing. Blowing a call by two full steps is another.

If anyone has video of this play, it should be posted in the "what is a LL umpire" thread.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

PS -- Isn't it about time for the traditional LL bashing threads? I mean, U1 kicked the crap out of that call last night and I haven't seen anything here posted about it.

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_s...to_nh_victory/

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_s...to_nh_victory/

Stupid coach. Stupider rule.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Stupid coach. Stupider rule.

Why? These kids are ALL-STARS. It's not like some local league where you try to hide the crappy playing kid on the bench. Kids shouldn't have to travel all the way to a regional so the same 9 kids can play every game.

Every LL coach knows the consequence of not meeting MPR. Most coaches make sure the starters meet MPR and get the subs in VERY EARLY. So your first sentence I'll agree with wholeheartedly.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why? These kids are ALL-STARS. It's not like some local league where you try to hide the crappy playing kid on the bench. Kids shouldn't have to travel all the way to a regional so the same 9 kids can play every game.

Every LL coach knows the consequence of not meeting MPR. Most coaches make sure the starters meet MPR and get the subs in VERY EARLY. So your first sentence I'll agree with wholeheartedly.

I agree that the coach should have gotten his last sub in the game somehow to comply with the rule.

I regular season play, the MPR is 6 consecutive outs and 1 at bat. And they lessen the requirement in tournament play to 3 consecutive outs and 1 at bat. I just don't feel there should be any mandatory play rule, period, in tournament play. The coaches and parents should take care of that on their own.

I don't like it that these kids, from both teams in this situation, have to suffer and be totally disappointed because of one coach's negligence. Sure everyone should participate, but forfeiting a game over it rubs me the wrong way.

Because of this rule, the two managers involved resorted to shenanagins, and made a mockery of the game. They also embarrased their players, and like PWL said, I'd rather lose on the field than be given the win by forfeit.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I agree that the coach should have gotten his last sub in the game somehow to comply with the rule.

I regular season play, the MPR is 6 consecutive outs and 1 at bat. And they lessen the requirement in tournament play to 3 consecutive outs and 1 at bat. I just don't feel there should be any mandatory play rule, period, in tournament play. The coaches and parents should take care of that on their own.

I don't like it that these kids, from both teams in this situation, have to suffer and be totally disappointed because of one coach's negligence. Sure everyone should participate, but forfeiting a game over it rubs me the wrong way.

Because of this rule, the two managers involved resorted to shenanagins, and made a mockery of the game. They also embarrased their players, and like PWL said, I'd rather lose on the field than be given the win by forfeit.

I would've liked to have seen BOTH teams forfeit myself.

[ctblu40]

The whole mandatory play requirement chaps my a$$! IMO, this type of stuff just helps feed kids opinions of entitlement. If the kid is an all star, that doesn't mean he is just as good as his teammates!
Johnny, you want more playing time? Get better! How about a little extra batting practice, stay at the field with dad afterward and field some extra ground balls.

A couple of years ago, my sons hockey team lost the state championship game 2-0. The next day, I received an e-mail from a team mom asking for $15 so that she could order the kids medals anyway "because they did their best." My reply was that their best wasn't good enough, they should learn to earn their awards. I'm not trying to be cold hearted, I'm just trying to emphasize that youth sports are about fun and learning. Learning that anything worth having is worth working for.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

I believe the sad part of the story is the visiting team was allotted 18 outs and the home team only 15 outs. If the player was scheduled to bat in the bottom of the sixth, I feel that should meet mandatory playing requirements. They should modify the rule for tournament time so every team at least gets the equal number of outs. You even have to balance out playing time in run rule games from what I understand.

All the coach had to do was play the kid in the top of the sixth and he would have fulfilled the defensive requirement of the 3 consecutive outs. Then he would have been able to play the bottom of the sixth.

The MPR rule for tournament play has an exception for shortened games, but does not include games shortened because the home team did not need the bottom of the sixth, or any extra inning in order to win. 10-run rule games are exempted from the MPR rule in tournament play, and also in League play if the Local League elects not to impose a penalty on the manager.

Also, in League play, there is no forfeit penalty whatsoever for a MPR violation. The player(s) who didn't fulfill the requirement must start the next scheduled game and then fulfill the requirement before being replaced in the lineup.

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by PWL

If the New Hampshire coach felt so bad, he simply shouldn't have lodged a protest. However if a parent knew this, they would have given the information earlier I think. Sounds as if both coaches are guilty of not trying to win the old fashion way. Pitcher throwing wild pitches, batter swinging at anything. Seems to me both teams were making a mockery of the game over one little kid. If anything, New Hampshire didn't have the guts to win the game on a level playing field.

I hate it when I agree with PWL !!!



Doug

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by PWL

If the New Hampshire coach felt so bad, he simply shouldn't have lodged a protest. However if a parent knew this, they would have given the information earlier I think. Sounds as if both coaches are guilty of not trying to win the old fashion way. Pitcher throwing wild pitches, batter swinging at anything. Seems to me both teams were making a mockery of the game over one little kid. If anything, New Hampshire didn't have the guts to win the game on a level playing field.

A rule was violated and protested. Would you take the same stance if the home team, down by 1 run with two outs in the bottom of the last inning, hit a walk-off home run only to have the lead runner miss a base before scoring?

[PWL]

Originally Posted by waltjp

A rule was violated and protested. Would you take the same stance if the home team, down by 1 run with two outs in the bottom of the last inning, hit a walk-off home run only to have the lead runner miss a base before scoring?

That's a different situation than a team trying to lose so they can win. Hope they get smoked in the LLWS.

I never was a Nebraska football fan, but I gained a world of respect for Tom Osborne when he went for the two point conversion and the win. He could have easily settled for a tie and a national championship in the Orange Bowl years ago. I don't think anyone ever second guessed him for his decision. If you want to be number one, go in through the front door not the back.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by PWL

That's a different situation than a team trying to lose so they can win. Hope they get smoked in the LLWS.

I never was a Nebraska football fan, but I gained a world of respect for Tom Osborne when he went for the two point conversion and the win. He could have easily settled for a tie and a national championship in the Orange Bowl years ago. I don't think anyone ever second guessed him for his decision. If you want to be number one, go in through the front door not the back.

Ummm, lots of people questioned his decision to do that.

I'll get on the VT coach for making a mockery of the game that lead to the NH coach doing the same. The VT coach started it by throwing wild pitches. He should have just let the game play out, not said anything, then the NH coach would have done the same. When the VT coach started telling kids to lose intentionally, the NH coach was well within his right to do the same, IMO.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I consider myself middle of the road these days, so you must be talking about someone else

In fact, I was talking about someone else, the fire-breathing guy who was calling the New York Times traitorous and stuff. Having begun my post with a quote of your prior post, that surely wasn't clear, and for that I apologize.