Never reward a bad Defensive Play !

[TussAgee11]

I care what my assignors, evaluators, etc. think of me. But if it is neccessary to make percieved calls rather than correct ones, then I guess I won't be moving up. And I will not submit to simply pleasing coaches and compromising the integrity of the games I work for my future betterment.

I call balls and strikes as an art, how the catcher catches the ball etc.

I will call an OUT if the tag is down in front of the base before the runner slides in.

But. I will not take outside considerations to making bang bang, coin-flip calls because "the defense made a bad throw". Didn't F3 make a nice catch to get the bad throw, and get back to the base?

Doesn't matter to me, which one happened first?

And your dergogatory remark towards LL Umpires was uncalled for, some of the best umpires I have ever played or worked with do solely LL ball. Do you think MLB umps look down at HS umpires? I sure wouldn't think so, so stop doing the equivelent. They are your brothers.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I


And your dergogatory remark towards LL Umpires was uncalled for, some of the best umpires I have ever played or worked with do solely LL ball. Do you think MLB umps look down at HS umpires? I sure wouldn't think so, so stop doing the equivelent. They are your brothers.

Your reading skills approach your spelling skills. Dave never made a "dergogatory" (sic) remark about LL umpires. He made a reference to umpires who don't learn what they need to learn to progress.

As an aside, what I have seen over the years is that there are Little League umpires and there are umpires who work Little League. Dave is an umpire who also works Little League. There is no need to jump on a soapbox when speaking with Dave about Little League.

Oh, and regarding pro umpires and their opinion of HS umpires...where were you during the strike?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I call balls and strikes as an art, how the catcher catches the ball etc.

I will call an OUT if the tag is down in front of the base before the runner slides in.

Then you are employing the techniques I'm describing, whether you admit it or not.

But. I will not take outside considerations to making bang bang, coin-flip calls because "the defense made a bad throw". Didn't F3 make a nice catch to get the bad throw, and get back to the base?

Doesn't matter to me, which one happened first

"Which one happened first" begs the question. In a "coin-flip" call, you don't really know which happened first, that's why it's called a "coin-flip". To the greatest extent of your perception, you can't tell which happened first. So, you can (1) flip a coin, (2) always call them out, like Sandiego Steve does, or (3) base your judgment on which side earned the call.

I endorse Door # 3.

And your dergogatory remark towards LL Umpires was uncalled for, some of the best umpires I have ever played or worked with do solely LL ball. Do you think MLB umps look down at HS umpires? I sure wouldn't think so, so stop doing the equivelent. They are your brothers.

What Garth said. Among other things, I umpire Little League and conduct umpire training clinics for local leagues in my district. My reference to the 60' Little League field was simply an acknowledgment that that's where most everbody starts out. My point was that some guys never go beyond that level because of their unwillingness to accept concepts that contradict their own homegrown ideas.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

"Which one happened first" begs the question. In a "coin-flip" call, you don't really know which happened first, that's why it's called a "coin-flip". To the greatest extent of your perception, you can't tell which happened first. So, you can (1) flip a coin, (2) always call them out, like Sandiego Steve does, or (3) base your judgment on which side earned the call.

I endorse Door # 3.

I didn't say that I always call them out on a coin-flip. I did say that if the runner does not beat the play, he is out. No flipping involved. Leave me out of the flipping. If the runner's foot arrives before the ball, well then, he's safe. I don't see the gray area here at all.

"But Blue, how could you call him OUT???"

"Coach, did you see that pretty play he made. He went deep in the hole and threw it from his knees."

"Yeah, Blue, but the runner was safe!!!"

"Doesn't matter, coach, on really close plays, the pretty play wins."

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

"But Blue, how could you call him OUT???"

"Coach, did you see that pretty play he made. He went deep in the hole and threw it from his knees."

"Yeah, Blue, but the runner was safe!!!"

"Doesn't matter, coach, on really close plays, the pretty play wins."

Isn't the imagination a wonderful thing? I would never have thought of attributing such a conversation to Dave, but then, I'm limited by knowing he's not stupid.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Isn't the imagination a wonderful thing? I would never have thought of attributing such a conversation to Dave, but then, I'm limited by knowing he's not stupid.

Oh, I can't illustrate absurdity by being absurd, but it's okay for Rush Limbaugh to do it, huh?

I'm making a point that going by what a play looks like is not the best way to make a close call.

Dave was attributing things to me which I did not say, so I was merely giving my opinion on the subject.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Oh, I can't illustrate absurdity by being absurd, but it's okay for Rush Limbaugh to do it, huh?

Well, that explains a lot.

[kylejt]

I took me several years to understand the concept, and it's still pretty hard to teach to some folks. Black and white is easy. Fuzzy logic is tough.

We have coin-flippers all the time. I liken these calls to having a three way toggle switch in your head. D makes a terrific stop, I throw the switch to "OUT". D kicks the ball around before gloving it, I've got it in "SAFE". On coin flippers, I go to the switch for the call.

COIN-FLIPPER: Where a human being can not decipher if the ball beat the runner.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Oh, I can't illustrate absurdity by being absurd, but it's okay for Rush Limbaugh to do it, huh?

I didn't know Rush was a participant in this discussion board.

I'm frankly getting a little tired of having to correct you.

There's a solution to that problem.

I call the plays the way they "are," not how I "see them." What is so hard about this to comprehend?

How an individual "sees" a play is how it "is" according to them. I don't follow this statement at all.

OTOH, if you mean "I call the plays based on what I see happen at the moment of safe / out and not what happened prior" then that's simple to understand. It's just as simple to understand that some do consider what happened prior when making a call.

Read it, been there, done that. I don't subscribe to the contradictory rule theory. I use 7.08(e), 7.01, and 6.05(j) for my "Runner is out" decisions:

I read 7.08(e) and 6.05(j) as completely contradictory -- the former says the runner is out if he fails to get there first (ties go to the defense); the latter says the (batter-)runner is out if the base is tagged first (ties go to the runner).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I didn't know Rush was a participant in this discussion board.



There's a solution to that problem.



How an individual "sees" a play is how it "is" according to them. I don't follow this statement at all.

OTOH, if you mean "I call the plays based on what I see happen at the moment of safe / out and not what happened prior" then that's simple to understand. It's just as simple to understand that some do consider what happened prior when making a call.



I read 7.08(e) and 6.05(j) as completely contradictory -- the former says the runner is out if he fails to get there first (ties go to the defense); the latter says the (batter-)runner is out if the base is tagged first (ties go to the runner).

The statement that you don't follow was a quotation from a famous MLB umpire, whos name escapes me, who said this in response to the "call 'em as you see 'em" line, infering that many umpires "see" it one way, when in reality the opposite call would be the correct one.

So, according to your interpretation of 6.05(j), the tie goes to the runner, which contradicts one of your 40 myths of baseball

# 15. Tie goes to the runner.

# 15. There is no such thing in the world of umpiring. The runner is either out or safe.

So, it sounds to me like you use 7.08(e) as the standard way of judging non-tag plays.

Oh, and what is the solution to the problem of continually needing to correct his misinterpretation of what I was trying to say? Don't just tell me there is a solution, and leave it like that. Go ahead, tell me the solution. What is it, quit trying to correct that person?