Infield Fly???
 

Runners on first & second, one out. Batter hits what I would call a "flare" (about 15-20 feet off the ground). Shortstop jogs a few steps to his left and catches it, doubles the runner off second who was running on the pitch. Based on what I described (I know its judgment and you gotta see it to be sure), do you have infield fly or not?

mrm - are you wondering what would have happened if the play had been different and SS had dropped the ball? in that case I might want to "be there" to determine if it's a fly or a line drive. But in what you described it doesn't matter if it's Infield Fly Rule or not

No, my partner and myself had a "discussion" about whether or not this is an infield fly situation. He didnt feel it was because:

1) He didnt judge it to be ordinary effort. His criteria were: the ball wasnt high enough, there wasnt enough "trajectory" on the ball.
2) It was called an Infield Fly as the ball was coming down.
3) He felt that the infielder had the ability to intentionally drop this ball, and would have enforced this rule had he dropped it intentionally. I dont see how this rule could be enforced but it isnt an Infield Fly situation. Obviously the intentionally dropped fly ball rule isnt in effect in an IF situation.

In my opinion, this ball did not fit the definition of line drive as "sharp and direct from the bat to the fielder." Thoughts please????[/

Flares are not IFF in my opinion, but remember if they let it fall, I may be inclined to give a very late IFF.

If they intentionally drop it, kill it immediatly, BR out, runners back to bases at TOP.

Not being there of course I can't tell but I see your side. But did your partner REALLY say that intentional dropping is the key??? Sounds like he might have gone infield fly on a sharp line drive!

IMO: Fielder must have enuff hang time to park himself in one spot or maybe waver there for a short time before IFF. If he drops intentionally, I agree w/TussAgee11; call IFF late anyway.

According to the MLBUM (not sure about other books), the IFF is supposed to be called as the ball is on its way down anyway. Calling a late IFF here doesn't seem like a bad idea.

By rule, an intentionally dropped line drive with any force at any base results in an immediate deadball and the BR is out, and runners return. In all codes. Intentionally dropped is qualified as a fielder batting the ball down.

15-20 feet above ground is not an IFF, it's a soft liner. Intentionally dropped is a dead ball out. Intentionally allowed to land on the ground without being touched is a live ball, play on. There should be no late IFF call on soft liners.

It's an infield fly. 15-20 feet are more than enough to have an IFF.

I agree with Rich and have seen it called as an Infield Fly on the MLB & college levels. The fact the ball is on its way down is not relevant, in my opinion.

Anything from J/R or JEA?

Opinions vary. There is nothing in J/R or JEA, or any other reference material I am aware of to indicate the suggested height of an IFF.

And Im just asking here.....
 

Is it fair to assume that if a fielder could intentionally drop a fly ball (or a line drive which obviously doesnt apply to the IFR) that would be ordinary effort?

Remember the purpose of the infield fly rule is to protect the runners and prevent them from being "hung out to dry" on a popup that could be allowed to let fall and then create an easy double play. On the other hand, it's not there to bail out bad baserunning.

An infield fly call in this situation would not have mattered; the reason R2 was out was because he was running on the pitch. He would have been doubled off with or without an infield fly call.

If the flare was headed right to an infielder so that it was clearly a makeable catch, I'm probably going to call the infield fly to give the runners the protection the rule is intended to give them.

The other end of the stick - not calling an infield fly and then runners don't know what to do and the fielder might let it fall and try for the DP - is way too much Keystone-cops style baseball for my tastes.

I was taught to ask myself (in my head...not out loud or folks might find out I was a tad askew) Is that an infield fly? I have found that this works pretty well in determining which one to call.

Joe

If an infielder does not catch a flare (liner 10-15 above ground), the ball is likely in the outfield and no chance for an out, much less two. I don't see any reason to interject an IFF call on this.

He can back up and let it drop at his feet, and come up with it on a hop...

In my sitch, he could have very easily let this ball drop in front of him for an easy double play.

In your sitch he jogged a few steps to his left, caught the ball and doubled up the runner on 2B. IFF is irrelevant since the runner was doubled up, but why you trying to make it into one?

It is an infield fly if the fielder could make the catch with ordinary effort. If the umpire judged the ball to be a fly ball that could be caught with ordinary effort then it is an infield fly. If more than ordinary effort was needed or if it was not a fly ball then there is no infield fly

What we are hung up on here is not ordinary effort, but line drive, and spirit of the rule. I say if the defense has the opportunity to take advantage of what the rule is trying to prevent, then call it.

The definition of line drive is a ball hit that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the fielder without touching the ground. I dont see how you can call a flare 15-20 feet off the ground a line drive based on that definition.

Who said I did? Oh, wait, I did very early in this thread! Flares to me are those soft line drives. If the ball is 15 feet in the air, all thats left to see is if the fielder has ordinary effort and its a fair ball...

Listen... If, in YOUR JUDGMENT, you could call the hit a fly ball, and the fielder could make a catch with ordinary effort, in fair territory, it is an infield fly.

We know this Chuk - its just a matter of fly ball or not. Thats what we seem to be talking about here, at least the only real point of this thread.

And youre not gunna figure out if it was a fly ball or not by talkign about it. Its the judgement of the official who made the call

Sometimes it helps to iron things out before you go on the field rather than make a snap second judgement. Its the best form of anticipation we have. Think MLB umps go on the field with 2 teams who threw beanballs at eachother the day before not ready for what may come?

I think about umpiring alot, and will continue to think about it, rather than just make hasty judgement calls on the field when it can be avoided (not that I don't like a good banger).

And there are guidelines, rules of thumb, and even professional interpretations that address how those judgments should be made. That's the purpose of discussing judgment calls on an umpiring discussion board.

A basketball goal is 10 feet above the ground and many shortstops are going to go up that high to catch a flare. Or a flare that was 15 feet above the ground is 10 feet when it reaches the SS. These are not fly balls for IFF purposes. The defense should catch it and the offense should be wary of advancing until the ball is not caught.