Ejections
 

Here's the Sitch:
LL 9-10YO Local Tournament (not District).

I make a bang-bang at 3 for the third out. 3rd inning, tie score, 95 degrees.

Base coach (whom is the Manager) says, "he was safe, you were out of position. That's a horrible call" loud enough for all to hear and especially for me who is about 10 feet from him.
Me: "you know better than to argue coach, that's enough".
Him: "I wasn't talking to you".
Me: "You say it loud enough for me to hear and you're talking to me".

He shut up and I made my way to the PU whom is inexperienced but has a decent foundation of the rules. I told him that he [Manager] was warned and I'm going to walk away from this guy now. To right field I go.

As we're waiting for the Visiting pitcher to complete warmups, I hear him [Manager] saying "he was out of position". I turned to look at him & he says "he was safe, he made a horrible call". Again loud enough for ALL to hear and while looking at me. PU does nothing. I cannot ignore this so I walked up to the dugout and I ejected him.

Should'nt the PU have interjected before I got to the guy? He told me after the game that he heard the Manager and Coaches chirping the call the entire time during warmup. As PU I would have tried to shut them up quickly.

What would you have done if you were me? Or PU?

BTW: the TD whom was the Coach of this team advised me I was, "Out of Line".

Ain't LL Great?

Base coach - "he was safe, you were out of position. That's a horrible call"
Me - nothing, I'm on my way to RF, not to have a conversation with PU.

Base coach from the dugout - "he was out of position". I pay him no attention & he says "he was safe, he made a horrible call".
Me - nothing, I'm already in RF and he has not made a PPP (personal, profane, or prolonged) comment.

PU has no business in this, unless the coach makes a personal or profane comment that I can't hear from RF. Since he is in the dugout "prolonged" is not an issue.

"you know better than to argue coach, that is enough"???

Poleeeeeeeeeeeease! They usually DON'T know better, which is why they do.

Give them a little bit of "release" time. Ask them if they want to hear what you seen. If not, turn a walk away. If they do, explain what you seen, then turn and walk away.

If they start to repeat themselves, tell them "This conversation is over". If they keep after you, put your hand up, palm facing them and say "Coach, that is enough arguing the call. No more!!!" in a loud voice. THEN if he says any more about the call, eject him.

It is important to give the verbal warning loud enough for everybody to hear, and to also state "arguing the call". You have at that point listened to what he has to say, in a calm matter (everybody seen that), and he is still arguing so you have issued a warning, complete with the physical warning sign (your arm straight out with palm facing him). If he keeps arguing, NOBODY in the park can possibly blame you for ejecting him!

Trust me, this works like a charm, but it is important that you do everything right.

Statements like "you know better than to argue" is NOT a warning, and "cut it out" is a weak order. "No more arguing the call" with your palm out towards him is a very obvious warning, AND a specific order to stop what he is doing.

Give it a try next time and report back your success! :D

And I do NOT agree that the plate ump does not have any business in this. If the base ump is too far away to hear the coach continue on with his obvious attempt to incite the crowd :D, the plate umpire needs to deal with it! This is a form of bench jocking, and the plate umpire SHOULD be dealing with it. This is no different than say the coach says something stupid like "Blue, you are an idiot" loud enough for a few fans to hear it, but not the base ump. The plate ump BETTER eject that coach, even though the comment isn't directed at him personally. You are a TEAM out there!!!

Stop umpiring with cotton in your ears. Don't let people yell at you or about you. If they say it were you can hear it. They want you to hear. So address it. Shut them up by yelling at them or run them.
Clint Lawson

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I more or less agree.

For too long, umpires have been letting crap be said to them out on the field. INAPPROPRIATE CRAP!!! At least the atmosphere now is for us to deal with it after years of being told "You gotta ignore them and take a little crap from coaches". That got us to the point of? You know the rest. Esculations that have gotten umpires hurt and harrassed.

BUT, it IS a matter of knowing what you can and cannot do something about. Know thy rule book on how it pertains to coaches/parents behavior on and around the field. KNOW the procedures for dealing with the problems. Then, apply with a heavy hand! I really believe in holding coaches/parent to VERY high standards of conduct. ANY swear words, insults that contain "You are.....", threats, taunting, etc...MUST be dealt with and with finality. Adults KNOW BETTER, and if we allow this kind of conduct to go on without ejections, we condone the behavior and are just as guilty of showing a bad example to the players who are kids!!! While coaches and parents have the task of showing good role models as parent and coaches, WE have the task of showing good role models as authority figures.

Many guys just don't deal with this stuff because they don't like the flack they will get from dealing with it. But I tell you, the quickest way to settle a game down is to remove the people that are esculating the situations in word and/or action. This includes parents in the stands.

Yes, take the cotton out of your ears. Listen to ALL that is said on the field. When it crosses the line, DEAL WITH IT!

EJ's are tough to discuss here because they are usually YHTBT situations. That being said, I agree with DG's point of view on this. If the coach is simply voicing displeasure with your call and questioning your positioning, you need to ignor it and head to RF. If he begins to get personal, now you have a problem.

What "crowd"? Are they anything like assistants?

PPP

What the heck is YHTBT?

I did figure out that EJ's means ejections.

Oy Vey, is it that hard to spell out a few words?

Joe

Let's remember one thing, these are 9/10 year old kids and by not addressing this coach we are telling them his behavior is okay. Sportmanship must be stressed especially at the young level, it is OUR job to enforce it. A coach only gets ONE warning, the second time is an ejection. As for the PU, last time I checked we are a crew, you must protect each other and have each others backs.

:cool:

YHTBT is You had to be there

Good point. Player's, especially at this age, reflect their coach or coaches. Let him get away with what he did and you are going to have problems with players shortly. Bet on it. Better to dump the coach and keep the kids in line and in the game. At the high school level and above, I'm going to ignore it. If the coach at that level is so stupid as to lead his players into concentrating on me as opposed to their jobs --- have at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctblu40 EJ's are tough to discuss here because they are usually YHTBT situations. That being said, I agree with DG's point of view on this. If the coach is simply voicing displeasure with your call and questioning your positioning, you need to ignor it and head to RF. If he begins to get personal, now you have a problem.

I agree with your premise if the coach kept his mouth shut after the following:


Me: "you know better than to argue coach, that's enough".

It's obvious the Coach didn't "have enough" so it's now time to dump him.

When an umpire gets to the point where he/she feels it's time to let the coach know "That's Enough" then if he continues after that and you still do nothing IMO you loose some credibility otherwise why say "that's enough" in the first place.

As far as the PU's involvement. He/she is your teammate and if the coach continued to carry on after your partner already told him "that's enough" and your partner is down right field but you as PU still hear the coach being the energizer bunny by keep going and going then he can keep on going to the parking lot.

Pete Booth

In regarding a PU involvement, I was the BU in a high school tourney game, tie game, bases loaded, 2 outs. - slow grounder to SS,hurried throw to F3, BR barely safe, and defensive coach chirping about the call (no big deal). Next batter, grounder to SS, misplayed, all safe. SS picks up ball, throws to pitcher, but over his head, ball rolls to dugout fence(foul terr., but not dead)--runners advance, R3 scores, and as I'm watching the ball, defense coach going nuts, yelling "its your fault!!!"- in various forms,repeatedly. I'm hearing that, thinking he's yelling at SS, when PU finally calls time and ejects him.
Turns out those comments were at me (surprise!), but appreciated the back up.

Yes, perfect illustration on why we SHOULD listen to everything that is said on and around the field.

I have to do it at least once a year. Work with a newer umpire, or an umpire that has not advanced very quickly. Something weird happens. Coach/player/fans start saying inappropriate stuff that he either doesn't hear, or DOES HEAR BUT WON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT! I do something about it.

It really doesn't matter if the comments are direct at you or your partner. If at your partner and he doesn't do something about it, you HAVE TO!!! The game just turns to crap if you don't!

Hmmm,
 

Humans are people.

People umpire baseball.

Umpires have different lengths of fuses.

How does an umpire know IF his partner is just not near his limit or if he is "ignoring" an important issue.

I am sure that I have a different tolerance level for comments than other umpires. It does not mean I am "doing nothing" about comments -- the comments just aren't in my "problem area."

So now we have some umpires that say they would insert themselves into my issue -- why would anyone do that? I handle my own issues . . . I don't need help from anyone.

Regards,

Agree. That holds true for other sports too imo. We're having almost the same type of discussion over on the basketball forum- even as we speak.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=27549

It's not my job to teach the parents of 9/10 year olds how a coach should behave. If the parents want to deal with him they can, and probably will. Sportsmanship can not be "umpired" into existence. I don't give warnings. I give commands. My fuse is extremely short when the comments directed to me are personal or profane and a little bit longer for prolonged (obviously). But I ignore coaches and fans who make a couple comments about the quality of my umpiring, unless of course it's an assistant, on the field, with a complaint.

Sorry Tim, I see far too many guys letting stuff go far too long, and then the game goes to crap!

I am NOT saying that you jump right in. But there comes a point when enough is enough.

I am not generally a short fuse, except for a few things. Personal insults to ANYBODY on the field, profanity, intimidation, threats, taunting all warrant QUICK FIXING.

Tim, if we are working together, and any of this is going on, and you aren't doing anything about it, I WILL!!! Count on it.

If a coach is just complaing a bit about your strike zone (;)) I will probably let that go for a while. I might after a while ask why you aren't doing something about it if he keeps it up for more than a couple of innings. After that, I will probably warn him about arguing balls/strikes if you haven't.

I don't care for the old school attitude that says we have to take a bunch of crap from coaches! I have NEVER seen a job description for a coach which included something like: "Let the umpire know that you think his strike zone is horrible while standing either in the 3rd base coaching box, or on the dugout bench". I see NOWHERE in any rule book, umpiring manual, etc that says I must put up with crap.

I have found that looking to give a warning early in the game makes the rest of the game go much better (if any warning is even needed). Take control early, and with a fairly heavy hand, you hear FAR less crap in the late innings of a tight game! I have seen far too many umpires "let it go" early, and have situations blow up in the last two innings.

I seriously doubt that states would have needed to impose suspensions and fines if umpires many years ago had put the hammer down on complaining. Umpires "long fuses" do a disservice to the game of baseball and further the culture of poor sportsmanship.

Archangel
The only friends we have on the diamond are our partners. If you don't have my back I don't want to work with you!

RonF, I dont understand your comment. Read my post again--I was appreciative of my partners actions...

I would be mildly pissed for him butting into my business.

I know in LL the plate ump is also the Umpire-in-chief. So yeah i do agree, the umpires are a team

This is a generalization, but ...
 

When I am BU, I don't jump into my pard's game. If he wants to let participants rag his zone, he's making his own bed.

Sometimes, if I feel there is overt gesturing going on (a personal peeve) at PU's work, I will inform him, only if he cannot see it. Every field is laid out differently. On some diamonds, it's easy for weasels to hide from PU's view and put on a show.

I even jumped in once, in a 3-man game (I was U3), where U1's work was being physically ridiculed by multiple coaches in 1B dugout (between innings, with U1 down the RF line). I deemed the gesturing overly large and prolonged, which got the fans going.

But, in general, I am with Fronny. Let each of us pick his battles; jump in only when reinforcements are necessary.

Ace

Being umpire in chief does not mean the umpire is the "boss" on the field. It means he has specific responsibilities.