Would you?

bossman72 · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 30, 2006, 10:45pm

Bases loaded and pitcher in the windup with hands set in front of his body. Pitcher takes his hand off the ball and wipes it on his pants (which is a balk- 8.05 j).

I called the balk but caught a lot of flack for it from the D coach. "That wasn't deceiving anybody... blah blah blah. You gotta be kidding me."

I'm now second guessing myself on whether or not i should have let this go. So, as the thread is entitled, would you call this balk, or would this be a little too picky for your tastes?

Edit note: This was American Legion baseball

mattmets · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 30, 2006, 11:02pm

I'm calling it. In Legion ball, pitcher has to know how to step off. This is almost as ridiculous as the kid not knowing he can't go to the mouth on the rubber. If he needed to wipe his hands, he shouldn't have come set. Good balk.

ctblu40 · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 30, 2006, 11:15pm

Personally, I think it would depend on the speed of this movement:
A quick movement- I call it.
A slow movement- I let this one slide but am sure to point out this mistake to the skipper.

If F1 is checking on R1, do you call a balk for any movement of his shoulders no matter how small or slow? If it's slow and only noticable to me 'cause I'm looking, I let that go as well.

JMO

BigUmp56 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 30, 2006, 11:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Personally, I think it would depend on the speed of this movement:
A quick movement- I call it.
A slow movement- I let this one slide but am sure to point out this mistake to the skipper.

If F1 is checking on R1, do you call a balk for any movement of his shoulders no matter how small or slow? If it's slow and only noticable to me 'cause I'm looking, I let that go as well.

JMO

It shouldn't matter to you how quickly he removed his hand from the ball. This is AML we're talking about, not LL juniors Fall development ball. Matt has the right idea. They know better at this level, or at least they should.

I was of the same opinion about a slow and deliberate shoulder turn not being called until just recently. SDS posted a cite from Mike Fitzpatrick that convinced me any movement of the shoulder after coming set is to be called a balk.

Tim.

SanDiegoSteve · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 01, 2006, 12:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctblu40

If F1 is checking on R1, do you call a balk for any movement of his shoulders no matter how small or slow? If it's slow and only noticable to me 'cause I'm looking, I let that go as well.

Yes, After coming set, any turning of the shoulders, fast or slow, is a balk. Now, if the pitcher is just turning his head and neck, and the shoulder happens to move slightly as a direct result of the head turn, all at the same moment, and not a deliberate shoulder turn, I will not call a balk for this movement alone. It should be called for a deliberate shoulder turn though.

UmpJM · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 01, 2006, 12:11am

bossman,

As described, it's certainly a balk.

If you call it on MY pitcher, I'm not going to complain. (I'm not going to like it very much, but it's MY fault, not yours.)

If you DON'T call it on THEIR pitcher, I'm not going to complain either. (I don't think my team was disadvantaged.)

If you DO call it on my pitcher and then DON'T call something equally "nit-picky" on their pitcher, then we've got a problem.

JMO.

JM

ctblu40 · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 01, 2006, 08:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, After coming set, any turning of the shoulders, fast or slow, is a balk. Now, if the pitcher is just turning his head and neck, and the shoulder happens to move slightly as a direct result of the head turn, all at the same moment, and not a deliberate shoulder turn, I will not call a balk for this movement alone. It should be called for a deliberate shoulder turn though.

This is what I was trying to explain earlier... I'm not calling this a balk. Honestly, if an umpire were to call every little movement of the shoulders or twitch of the glove in the set position a balk, the game would quickly turn into 'Balkball' and not 'Baseball'.

Deliberate movement is a balk everytime.

DG · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 01, 2006, 09:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72

Bases loaded and pitcher in the windup with hands set in front of his body. Pitcher takes his hand off the ball and wipes it on his pants (which is a balk- 8.05 j).

I'm now second guessing myself on whether or not i should have let this go.

Edit note: This was American Legion baseball

Don't second guess yourself. This was a good call at all levels where batters get to lead off.

Huskerblue · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 03, 2006, 09:56am

I'm calling a BALK! The action could be construed as the start of the pitch.

Justme · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 03, 2006, 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachJM

bossman,

As described, it's certainly a balk.

If you call it on MY pitcher, I'm not going to complain. (I'm not going to like it very much, but it's MY fault, not yours.)

If you DON'T call it on THEIR pitcher, I'm not going to complain either. (I don't think my team was disadvantaged.)

If you DO call it on my pitcher and then DON'T call something equally "nit-picky" on their pitcher, then we've got a problem.

JMO.

JM

So you are saying that while it's "certainly a balk" it's "nit-picky"? Didn't sound nit-picky to me.....poor coaching maybe but not nit-picky umpiring.

bossman72 · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 03, 2006, 04:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justme

So you are saying that while it's "certainly a balk" it's "nit-picky"? Didn't sound nit-picky to me.....poor coaching maybe but not nit-picky umpiring.

Although in JM's defense, it WOULD be nit picky for the age group that JM coaches (Pony league).