Dayton article- short honeymoon for pros apparently
 

Dragons batters object to strike zone in 1-0 loss
Mosby was called out to end the game on a pitch that should have been ball four.
By Marc Katz

Staff Writer

DAYTON | None of the Dayton Dragons would say so, but it was apparent most of them would rather see the Class A Midwest League umpires back picketing outside Fifth Third Field rather than working inside, especially behind home plate.

It was the second time in two weeks Mosby was called out on a pitch he wouldn't have been able to reach had he swung, and he slammed his helmet to the ground, earning the Dragons' second ejection of the game — even though the game was over.

In the seventh inning, third baseman Eric Eymann also was ejected after a way-outside third-strike call.

"You're terrible," Eymann said he told Alper, who apparently didn't want anybody in the game who felt that way.

"The best thing to say is it was a good game," said Dragons manager Billy Gardner Jr., who was very pleased with Zach Ward's eight innings of two-hit pitching. "We had some pitches go against us. It happens sometimes."

All minor-league umpires went on strike over wages and benefits at the beginning of the season and didn't ratify a new contract and report back to work until June 12. Up until that time, teams had to hire local amateur umpires.

While the amateurs lacked consistency, the pro umpires have been drawing the wrath of players nearly every game, especially at home plate.

Bad calls or not, the Dragons could not muster a run.

Double plays in the second and fourth innings wiped out opportunities, and Adam Rosales' triple to begin the ninth — after South Bend scored in the top of the inning — went wasted. Jay Bruce and B.J. Szymanski both struck out swinging on 3-2 pitches before Mosby, also on a 3-2 count, was wide-angled.

So what's the point? The players b*tch when replacements are there, they b*tch when the pros are back. The common denominator is... players b*tch. And I am sure the staff writer is an expert on what pitches are too far outside to be called strikes...

Well put, DG. And I bet that writer had a perfect vantage point to call balls and strikes.



Doug

Could this writer be any more of a freakin' homer?

http://scd.mm-b1.yimg.com/image/849912987

i agree keyman that players cry and whine......but when the replacements were working it was presented by managers and striking umpires alike that if there was no strike then these problems on the field would not take place.

it was always the fault of the umpires during the strike.

when the managers and players were crying about balls and strikes where was your statement then?

seeing that the strike is now over it's the rats fault or the writers bad judgement right. there is no way the umpire could be at fault......is there??

Whoa, nelly ..........................
 

SCUMP,

A little perspective, please. No matter which pony you backed during the strike, the common denominator is that PLAYERS AND COACHES B**TCH NO MATTER WHO OR WHAT IS CALLING BALLS AND STRIKES !!!!!

They (the players and coaches) need a scapegoat when they don't perform well, or as they think they should. And we, as umpires, are that "excuse". NO MATTER WHO THE UMPIRE IS, OR HIS LEVEL OF PROFICIENCY.



Doug

Whaddya Know
 

Another "AMLU Guys Are Not Really That Good" article/thread. I would have never guessed.

Strikes and outs!

uh keymen what does the first line in my post say? does it need to be in caps for you?

I AGREE THAT PLAYERS CRY AND WHINE!!!!!!

my point is and was that is not how it was presented time and again during the strike. it was always presented by the press and the striking umpires that this would not be taking place if the regular umpires were working.

Uh, Doug...that was the point for the past two months. AMLU supporters touted that professional umpires don't have their calls second guessed. Most of us laughed and reminded them of the MLB brethren that regularly get skewered. Some of us reminded them that we knew they were using 'homer' writers to get their message in the papers. One MiLB umpire's mother was responsible for many of those stories being placed in the public eye.

If you recall, when the end of the strike was announced, I wrote: "Great, I can't wait to see a perfect game finally get called." The sarcasm was dripping and aimed at all those who felt that the replacements were horrible. I also told them to remember that someday they would rejoin the amateur ranks and never be capable of doing a good job again. (grin)

Relax...the AMLU still has their SCAB index page up on their site. Obviously they haven't forgotten what transpired and never learned what the word 'professional' means.

Here we go again...
 

SCUMP, WWTB, Lawyer,

Didn't we just go over this?:confused:

Please, in the name of all that's holy, can't we smokem peace pipe?

Dancing by myself
 

In the spirit of fair play, I will refrain from disparaging the AMLU as soon as I see the SCAB page removed from their site and a retraction of their condemnation of amateur umpires. You see, it takes two to tango.

Peace!!!!!

SCUMP, it's puff, puff, pass...not puff, puff, puff, puff....:)
<a href="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZRYYYYYYYYUS" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/1/1_4_110.gif" alt="Marijuana" border="0"></a>

im sick of reading this ****.

all umpires suck at their jobs. we all suck to anyone else, so this isnt news. whens the last time the newspaper said "little timmy struck out 9 times in the double header, but the umpires called a great game. that plate umpire had his eyes right on the outside corner every single pitch. the calls couldnt be made any better by a computer or robot."

Well, all these comments aside, as a Dayton Ump watching the sports highlites on the news, ...the view was directly behind home plate on the strike call per this thread, and I gotta say guys, it was way outside- I mean not even close enough to give the PU the benefit of the doubt.....sometimes we blow it and deserve the wrath...

Who's forcing you to read and comment?

I went to my first MiLB games since the strike ended (AA, Akron). I noticed the difference in mechanics from the replacement umpires, as well as the average age, body weight, and all that stems from those. I'm not sure that the calls were any better, but the umps were in better position and were "crisper" (not "crispier").

The PU (according to the box score, John Tumpane) seemed to call the zone very tight, and this was in a game that was scoreless into the 10th. Strange combination, but he didn't seem to take any heat from the players (esp. the pitchers).

I heard the last inning on the radio, where the announcer said more than once "no way that pitch was a strike." I'm not inclined to give his opinion much weight, however.

The crew called one balk during the game: R1, R2, stealing on the pitch. F1 starts his motion, sees the steal, and wheels to throw to third. BALK! Good call, and easy, and, happily, on Altoona.

sorry, i forgot that the internet carries the old saying: "if you dont have something nice to say, dont say it at all"

displeasure isnt appreciated around here i guess. sorry for bringing you down guys...

Oh, grow up...my comment was straight forward and rooted in most conventional social behavior. No one is forcing you to read the post - clearly labeled as another slight agianst the AMLU gang. Further, no one is expecting you to comment. There are plenty of other threads that may pique your interest. If not, please don't presume to tell us that we should move on because you are irritated, bored or dismayed at the dialogue.

So, apparently, this staff writer feels that this statement shouldn't have led to the player's ejection? Is there anyone here who wouldn't have tossed this guy?

I'm all for that. I haven't started one- count it- ONE thread with the theme that the AMLU sucked or that the replacements were awful. I have argued for AMLU and against the replacements in other threads on this board.

But if you follow my posts (and I know there is at least one dude out there who does), you know that I have been calling for the end of this argument since the strike was settled.

Some people simply will not let it go.

Strikes and outs!

I can only think of one person who might not toss him, and I think even he would pull the trigger on this one.:) :) :) I'm just kidding, okay. Don't get mad.

But I digress.....

This staff writer is not a very good one, since he did not identify Alper prior to the quote you posted. A good writer would have mentioned him by first and last name in an earlier reference, so that when he wrote of the ejection, we would have some clue as to who this "Alper" person even was.

For ME, commenting on these kinds of articles are very much akin to spearing fish in a bathtub.

;)

Yet...you pepetuate it by restating your opinion. The answer is easy; don't comment on things that get your dander up.

AMEN!!!!!!

Amen= the end
 

PDX, WWTB, I have a proposition for you.

I won't comment on AMLU issues anymore if you don't. Deal?

Strikes and outs!

No, I got another month or so to settle the score! ;)

Again, you must suck as a lawyer. A GOOD lawyer would have offered ME something to settle. ;)

My legal skills
 

(a) I did offer you something to settle. Something invaluable, in fact- MY SILENCE. How many times in your life do you get the opportunity to shut a lawyer up?

(b) My skills in the courtroom and at the negotiating table are at least on par with my skills as an umpire- take whatever you will away from that last statement. I will say that David E. Kelley has done as much for the legal profession and the public's expectations of what I can do as Timmy McCarver has done for umpires.

Objection! Sustained.

oops. Wrong board.

Strikes and outs!

Actually, I have no axe to grind with you, B.L.

However, your barter is of little consequence to the matter at hand. The AMLU continues to mock and threaten the amateur umpire. I have been contacted by two (one was my former student) who worked as replacements. They have both been told that they are marked men. Since one still aspires to pro ball, he has much to worry about. He planned to reattend Evans in hopes of making it next Winter. He was warned that this would be a waste of his time and money by a couple of the guys who work as AMLU instructors there. That is my fight.

Would it be any different than say the construction industry? Union goes on strike & a group of handymen go in & work on the building until the strike is resolved.

What reception do you think one of them would have should they apply for the union training program six months later?

You guys were pawns, caught between greedy owners and a short-sighted union. Any way you look at it, no one is going to respect you come morning.

So let me get this straight. A guy worked as a replacement and now thinks that the AMLU instructors are going to want this person in their union? You are suprised by this? I think this guy got some bad advice. Did you say he was your student, WWTB? I say let him reattend Evans Academy. If he is good enough then so be it. But if this guy thinks he will be accepted with open arms, he will be sorely mistaken. Of the few AMLU guys I still talk to, none of them have treated replacements poorly. They are good guys that understand that someone was going to work their games. But I wouldn't expect any of them to want someone that worked to enter their union. The guys I know are good people that were caught in a bad situation. But your student needs to realize that his decision to work those games was not a good decision if he intended to go back to umpire school.

I am trying to be more civil here since I am trying to move on from this subject. But tell your student that if he thinks he is good enough to go back. But odds are he wasn't selected the first time and he won't be the second. Not because he was a replacement, but rather because he probably wasn't good enough. Again, not a jab at the replacements, this is based on the fact he wasn't selected in his first year of umpire school. The odds are not in his favor to get a job the second time around.

Isn't "good enough" relative to the competition? In any given year/class, it could be an exceptional group of guys. The next year a bunch of dud's!

Certainly, the best umpires are not still in minor league ball. They kick guys out to make room for the rookies every year. What a deal!

I appreciate the honesty. He was a student of mine long ago, when he first grabbed a mask and I was fleeter of foot. Since then, he has worked his way up the ranks and got the bug a few years ago to attend Evans mini school. He received high marks and was eager to prove himself but like most kids his age, didn't have the money. He got a taste of the action and that thrilled him. I have spoken with him about a dozen times suring and after the strike. He feels that he is ready to make the jump and wants to prove it in pro school. His mistake was that he approached a couple of AMLU guys and asked if he could tak with them after the game. They agreed and tore him a new one. These are single A guys and have little room to toss around any attitude. You and I were both there...most A umpires are mutts.

He then found his name on the website that was mentioned in another thread. This guy called everyone he knew and asked why he was being treated so badly. Word got around and he recieved an email telling him that if he showed up at either school, they would ride him into the ground and make sure he never got offered a chance to work in the Minors. That is totally classless and not the least bit professional.

I've taught guys that got good enough to merit my assignments. I didn't resent them and am mature enough to know that being passed by is part of life. He was offered games based on his ability. He accepted them and was encouraged by the League Director to go to school and get hired. If these schlubs stand in his way, the tirade against AMLU will endure. I cannot fathom how you can justify those guys not wanting the best available umpire out there in teh field with them. I've worked with guys who do all kinds of crap off the field - I don't care. I only want the best umpire along side me when the deuce hits the fan. These AMLU guys are fooling themselves if they think the next batch of hires doesn't think they made a huge bargaining mistake. Like my friend, he just wants a shot to prove himself. Maybe that will be the downfall after all. Enough guys will realize that they don't want any part of the union so it will implode. Unions do that you know.

WWTB,

I don't support many of the things that AMLU did and said about amateur umpires working as replacements and I've told a couple of them how I felt. I did support thier belief, as I think you do, that they needed better pay and treatment for the job they do. With all of that said, I'd have to say your friend should have thought about the consequences before he took an MiLB game as a replacement.

The people I knew who worked those games did them for a few reasons 1) To see if they were good enough in their own mind to be a PRO umpire 2) Because either they or their assignor had an established relationship with the GM and they felt like it was just another assignment 3) I can't really put it into words but one guy had a reason about an umpire that had been released and treatly unfairly (still don't get all of the logic on this one). At any rate, none of them were looking to be professional umpires in the future.

Whether it's right or not, it's likely that most AMLU guys aren't going to want a replacement to join their ranks even if he goes through all of the legitimate steps to get to PRO ball. Since the instructors at schools have wide latitude over who they recommend/reject for PBUC, if they don't like a guy because he is a replacement, then that's they way it will go. I also think (based on the chronology I read into your post) it was suicide for him to go meet up with a couple of current umpires after he had recently been a replacement.

I do not question anyone's motives who served as a replacement. I was not asked to serve but would have declined and I have my reasons. All I have said is like anything else, choices have consequences. If you are prepared to live with those consequences, then how you choose is up to you ....

Lawrence

Food for thought...

Anyone recall which replacement umpires were hired by MLB when their umpires went on strike? I'm pretty certain that they were happy to prove themselves and realized that by accepting the opportunity to fill in, they would make the transition tougher. Yet, they still were allowed to don the AL and NL with pride. It seems that the MiLB guys might need to learn a thing about professionalism as well as business negotiation.

another avenue?
 

WWTB, what about your friend contacting PBUC directly? I heard they might be starting their own umpire school.