Little League D-2
 

I have a couple questions from a game today.

1- Bases loaded 2 outs, batter hits the ball toward 1st baseman who is playing inside the base line by 6-8 feet. He attempts to get the ball but it gets past him and hits the runner progressing from 1st to second. Is the runner out?

2 - in our leaugue D-2 ball, there is no stealing but the pitcher may attempt to pickoff a runner from the stretch position. Now, runners on 1st and third, a foul ball is hit, the runner on third is still out on his lead off from the foul, the ball is thrown back to the pitcher who is not on the mound who then throws to the third baseman who picks the ball up off the ground and runs over to tag the third base runner out. Is the ball live before the pitcher returns to the mound?

Interested in others opinions,
Thanks!

If the first situation it would depend on where the ball was hit and where the second baseman was playing. If the second baseman had a chance to make a play the runner would be called out.

In the second situation, no, the ball is not live until the umpire makes it live. This should not happen until all runners have returned to their base.

1. i dont have the runner being out. the ball passed the first baseman, and the ball would be live if hitting the runner. now if F3 is playing back and the ball hits the runner before passing a fielder, then you have an out.

2. the ball is live when the umpire points/calls the ball in play. i do not have an out here, as i wouldnt have put the ball in play at this point. the runner stays and we move on.

ditto and ditto...

Coach:

Walt probably gave you the more concise answer. If in the umpires judgment the second baseman had a chance to make a play on the ball then the runner is called out for interference, even if the ball had passed immediately back of the first baseman.

This is from the J/R.


It is interference by a runner (Batter-Runner included) if:


2. A batted ball touches him after passing a fringe infielder and another infielder had a play opportunity.

R2, one out, A grounder to the third baseman's left. He dives, but cannot touch the ball, and the ball hits the runner a few feet in front of the shortstop, who is expecting to field it: interference.

However, it is not interference if a batted ball touches him (unintentionally) after passing a fringe infielder and no other infielder had a play opportunity.

R3 and R1, first baseman is playing "in" (several feet in front of R1, who is leading off). The batter hits a hard grounder to the first baseman's right. He cannot touch it and it strikes R1. The second baseman had no chance of fielding the ball: no interference The ball is live.


Here is the OBR rule and subsequent Evans professional interpretation.


7.09(m) It is interference by a batter or a runner when a fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball goes through or by an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches the runner after having been deflected by a fielder, the umpire shall not declare the runner out for being touched by a batted ball. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the fielder, and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner deliberately and intentionally kicks such a batted ball on which the infielder has missed a play, then the runner shall be called out for interference.


Professional Interpretation: Ordinarily, when a runner is struck with a fair ball, he is legitimately out. There are situations, however, in which he is not out:

(1) The fair ball touches him after going between the legs of an infielder, unless he allows the ball to strike him intentionally;

(2) The fair ball touches him after passing immediately by an infielder, unless he allows the ball to touch him intentionally. “Immediately by” is considered as being within one arm's reach. If the fielder should have fielded the ball with ordinary effort but failed, the runner is not declared out.

(3) The ball touches him after being deflected, unless he intentionally interferes. An American League directive orders that the runner shall not be called out even if another infielder had a chance to make a play (unless his actions are designed to interfere with the deflected ball.)



Tim.

And, as long as we're at it, coach, for future reference: the hands are NOT part of the bat.

And you CAN have a part of your foot on the plate when you hit the ball.

Thanks
 

Thank you for the rule listings and consults. As it is, both calls were against my team, both called out.

The batter hit by the ball was about 6 feet from 1st base, so second baseman was no where around, next player to have a chance at the ball was the Right fielder. When I questioned this to the umpire, which I do understand these are teenage kids and this is 9 year old baseball, I was told that the batter is out no matter what if hit by the ball.

In the second issue, the rule book states that the ball is dead unless hit or bunted, then list an exception that the pitcher may pickoff a base runner throwing from the stretch position. The pitcher had gotten the ball back , but never returned to the rubber. Even though I had the rule book in hand and read the rule to both opposing team coaches and both umpires, they basically said the call was made move on.

On the positive side we did win the game, but we had runners in scoring postion in both situations and cost us runs.

I was frustrated and appreciate that the way I interpret the rules seems to be apporpriate.

Thanks!

Congrats on winning the game!!

My experience with working with and training teenaged umpires is, if you get their best effort strike/ball, fair/foul, out/safe calls then you are doing pretty well. There were always exceptional teenaged umpires, but they were the exceptions, particularly at the lower levels of Little League.

More advanced interps and mechanics are trully the exception to the rule. I have found that very FEW put the ball into play after a dead ball situation (I've even had some adults neglect to do this). Interference/obstruction is an advanced judgement call that I always trained on, but it is very hard to get consistantly applied.

Bob P,
I agree completely that all I ever really ask is that they call it consistantly for both teams. As a wise man once told me, if you don't want to make mistakes, dont get out of bed. So I expect no more from anyone else. I was just a bit taken aback that they had never heard anything about the rule of the running being safe if the ball had passed an infielder.

After the game I made a point to tell the young man he did a good job and not to take the complaints to heart. I did advise him to look into the rules I questioned him about for future games.

How close was the ball to the first baseman when it went past? Was the first baseman moving or did it go through his legs?

In OBR, yes. In FED, no. In FED if the batter's foot is touching the plate when he hits a fair or foul ball, he is out.

Just clarifying, I know we are talking LL here.

Did you ask the umpire permission to pull out the rule book?
I'll bet not.

Though they may have booted these two calls out of ignorance, they also failed to boot you out of ignorance.

See, it all evens out!!

hmmm...... :D

Little League?
 

That doesn't sound like the Little League (tm) rule book, nor is D-2 a LL designation. I suspect that I can't answer your question because I doubt if I've read your rulebook.

In LL, a foul ball is dead (5.09 (d)), and it becomes live again when (optionally) the umpire calls "play" after the pitcher takes position on the pitcher's plate with the ball (5.11).

I say "optionally," because by convention the ball is also live if the umpire merely points or forgets to say, "play."

At some point, Coach, when your team has advanced to higher levels of umpiring, you'll find that reading the rulebook to the umpires is a bad idea.

Spoilage
 

Dont spoil the fun by telling them this the rule book from the back pocket is the easiest and most fun ejection. Had a varsity coach send a assistant to due his dirty work with a rule book last year. Even with the book they were wrong.

It's still a secret
 

I'm pretty sure that llcoach, once he got confirmation that the umpires almost "cost him the game," is gone until the next broo-hah-hah.

Actually, I asked permission to speak to the umpire before I entered the field and had my rule book in hand when I asked. Out of courtesy, and in compliance with the rules, I ask permission before I leave the dugout unless I am coaching a base.

And the ball had rolled about 6" outside the first baseman's glove hand on the oustide of his foot. He was about 6 feet from the first base line.

All I am going to say is, one, I am still here, I enjoy this forum now that I found it and am glad for all the great info for a new LL coach that is also learning the rules.

Two, I could ramble for 20 lines about why I pulled out the book and how these are beginner umpires and it is a league rule that only applies to D-2 yadda yadda...but I will suffice to say, I did ask permission to enter the field and that I was very polite and respectful about all of it. I will not stand for one second to have my young men question or argue with an umpire and they know it, so I feel it is my obligation to speak for them in a polite and repsectful manner when necessary, which there have been plenty of times I just ignored issues because the game was well decided no matter what the call, in this case it was a very close game. As to the rule book, I would never had touched it if the young men umpiring had given me ANY indication that they were in the slightest bit familiar with the rule in question. Coincidentally, the more senior umpire, the base umpire, had his book out and was reading on both of my questions, so I got the league rule book out because it is the only place to find the rule.

Again, after the game, I commended the young man on a job well done.

llcoach,
I commend you for your edicate on the field. Despite the rule book thing, I felt you were extremely professional and showed a great amount of restraint considering both calls could have been protested.

The young umpires on the field are learning the game just like your 9 yr old ball players. I would hope there are more coaches like you out there but unfortuneatly, I think you are in the minority.

Thank you for setting a good example for your players and coaches alike.

Welcome
 

I'm glad that you're still around. While this site has some rough spots, it's a good place to learn.