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-   -   for all you HSM wearers (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/27004-all-you-hsm-wearers.html)

LDUB Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDUB
What do you have to support this claim?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickrego
Two eyes that don't need glasses yet.

Well that really isn't helping any of us out. Some people swear that dark shirts are so much hotter on sunny days. Somebody posted that they did an experiment and left different color shirts out in the sun for an hour and then checked the temperature of each shirt. After the hour, the black shirt was only 3 degrees hotter than the air temperature. Obviously it is all in their minds that the black shirt is hotter. When they get hot out on the field, it is because they have the black shirt on, not because it is a hot day out. But after reading the test results it is obvious that the heat difference was all in the user's head.

Perhaps the protection difference is all in your head. When you take a shot to the mask, I bet you are thinking "Wow, that would have been a bad one if I had on a standard mask." Maybe you are just like the guy who thinks he is so much hotter in the black shirt. Maybe the shot would not have been any worse had you had been wearing the standard mask.

IceGator8 Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:31pm

HSM was designed for hockey goalies. Would you take a conventional catchers mask out on the ice and say it was equal in protection? What about if someone ripped a 120 mph slap shot directly at your face? It goes without saying that the helmet portion of the mask is more protective.

The facemask (and the helmet for that matter) of an HSM was designed in a wedge shape for a reason. The wedge allows a puck to glance off the mask in a way that minimizes direct force. A conventional catchers mask is somewhat flat in it's design and the impact from a direct shot is much greater.

I've spent three years in the HSM. Before that I spent fifteen in a regular umpire mask. Having been one who's worn both I can say that I'd much rather take a hard shot while wearing an HSM. The only shot that is similar between an HSM and a regular mask are direct shots to the chin. Those feel the same with either mask and tend to make my ears ring a bit.

HSM's have better vision period. Anyone who's spent some time in both knows the advantages.

A few words about cooling.

I've used what I consider the two best HSM's the All-Star and the Easton Stealth. While they are both great HSM's the Stealth is cooler. I personaly feel the Stealth is cooler than a wool cap and mask but opinions vary. The Easton also comes with sweat absorbers on top of the inner pads so sweat isn't as much of an issue. Many umpires in our area are also wearing an under armour style skull cap to soak up the sweat. Some leave it on between innings others remove it with the helmet. I'm bald so I've tried the skull cap and it works pretty well. Again, opinions vary on how the skull cap looks but in my area they've become accepted.

Earlier this season I tried wearing a regular cap underneath my HSM. It actually works but screws up the vision a bit. The beenie thing on the top of the cap is also annoying. I personaly will never wear a cap underneath an HSM again unless my local assoc. makes a rule stating that I must.

Just two cents from someone who's been there done that.

LDUB Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceGator8
HSM was designed for hockey goalies. Would you take a conventional catchers mask out on the ice and say it was equal in protection? What about if someone ripped a 120 mph slap shot directly at your face? It goes without saying that the helmet portion of the mask is more protective.

I think you are wrong. The All Star helmet you bought from Honig's was designed for baseball. The idea for the design was copied from hockey helmets, but I would assume that there are differences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceGator8
The facemask (and the helmet for that matter) of an HSM was designed in a wedge shape for a reason. The wedge allows a puck to glance off the mask in a way that minimizes direct force. A conventional catchers mask is somewhat flat in it's design and the impact from a direct shot is much greater.

But a mask will spin allowing some of the force to be deflected to the side. It would be interesting to see the results of a test of the protection of various masks.

bob jenkins Tue Jun 13, 2006 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceGator8
HSM was designed for hockey goalies. Would you take a conventional catchers mask out on the ice and say it was equal in protection? What about if someone ripped a 120 mph slap shot directly at your face? It goes without saying that the helmet portion of the mask is more protective.

More protection to the side and back -- agreed.

More protection to the front -- maybe, but it doesn't, imo, "go without saying."

IceGator8 Tue Jun 13, 2006 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDUB
I think you are wrong. The All Star helmet you bought from Honig's was designed for baseball. The idea for the design was copied from hockey helmets, but I would assume that there are differences.



But a mask will spin allowing some of the force to be deflected to the side. It would be interesting to see the results of a test of the protection of various masks.

I play hockey (mostly as a defenseman but am a backup goalie) The differences are few. The design is basically the same. The face cage is a little different because a hockey puck is a disk and a baseball is round.

Incidently I didn't buy my All-Star HSM form Honigs. I bought both the Easton and the All-Star from a local supplier.

I've rarely had a conventional mask spin when I've been hit. Usually it stays put. Maybe I have the thing too tight who knows. I wear a HSM because my doc wants me in a helmet type protector due to the amount of concussions I've had most of which stemmed from playing sports. The concussion that broke the camels back stemmed from a bad car accident.

IceGator8 Tue Jun 13, 2006 02:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
More protection to the side and back -- agreed.

More protection to the front -- maybe, but it doesn't, imo, "go without saying."

Well someone who has worn both extensively I think it does. But hey, what does experience have to do with anything? I recommend you give an HSM a shot so you have a way to compare.

To be honest I've never had a serious injury as a result from wearing a normal mask. However, the HSM in my experience is much better at minimizing the force of a direct shot.

SAump Tue Jun 13, 2006 02:34pm

Opens the Door for Change
 
2006 NFHS Baseball Rules Changes Release Date: 10/19/05

1-5-5: New Rule: Defensive players are permitted to wear face/head protection in the field. If a pitcher or any defensive player wears face/head protection, its outer covering shall have a non-glare surface.
Rationale: Although not frequent, there are occasions when defensive players suffer serious head injuries as a result of being struck by thrown or batted balls. Not surprisingly, pitchers have suffered a disproportionate share of such injuries. This addition emphasizes that fielder's face and head protection is permitted.
------
Mandated changes will be coming soon.
Boo-hoo for the hockey style mask behind home plate.
It will not be long until the fielders are required to wear cages like these.
http://www.lacrossemonkey.com/helmets.html
Look at some of the other protective equipment choices.
Lacrosse Shoulder Pads
Lacrosse Arm Guards
Lacrosse Rib Protection
Lacrosse Gloves
Jocks & Undergarments
Lacrosse Goalie Chest Guards
Lacrosse Goalie Throat Guards
Lacrosse Helmet
Lacrosse Helmet Accessories
Lacrosse Footwear
Lacrosse Equipment Bags
Baseball is missing a whole 'nother line of baseball gear accessories.
I have my on this one, http://www.lacrossemonkey.com/warrio...inghelmet.html
Get a load of this
Features:

Safety
New contoured Vision Face Mask for unparalleled vision and undeniable protection.
7-Point Face Mask Mounting System designed to protect critical impact zones.
Extended back shell length provides extra 'D' against concussions and wicked hits.
Meets or exceeds all NOCSAE standards for helmet safety.
Sculpted and integrated EVA Molded Visor and Chin Pieces for added durability and superior protection.
Rear hinge liner design made to contour to the back of your head for added comfort and heavy duty impact absorption.
Patented Composite Helmet Shell streamlined for performance and maximum protection.
Comfort
NEW light weight Warrior EVA padding liner provides unbelievable comfort without sacrificing protection.
High-impact dual density foam crown liner provides extreme protection for the top of your head, while adding lightweight comfort for maximum maneuverability.
4-Point Chin Strap keeps jaw inline for added comfort and safety.
15 Vaporflow Vent Holes make this bad boy lightweight with maximum breathability.
5 Fitted Helmet Sizes Available: Extra Large, Large, Medium, Small, and Extra Small.

briancurtin Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:54pm

Luke already beat me to this thread, covering the same exact view that i have. i love when these threads pop up...

briancurtin Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDUB
Perhaps the protection difference is all in your head. When you take a shot to the mask, I bet you are thinking "Wow, that would have been a bad one if I had on a standard mask." Maybe you are just like the guy who thinks he is so much hotter in the black shirt. Maybe the shot would not have been any worse had you had been wearing the standard mask.

i never thought of that, but i like it

sounds a lot like the stereotypical SUV driver of the last few years...buying a hummer because hitting telephone poles in a regular car would probably kill you, but not in a hummer. i say that as an SUV owner, im not going after people


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