for all you HSM wearers
 

Just curious if you wear a plate or combo cap under your HSM. I noticed an MLB umpire on TV last night that did. That's the first time I've noticed...maybe not paying attention before.

$.02 worth .............................
 

I wear a combo hat under my HSM. Only pulled hat off once during game. Takes a little practice to take helmet off without taking the hat, but "looks" better than the bare head, IMHO.




Doug

I've worn combo hat under my HSM in colder weather with no problems. When it's warm or hot, forget it!

If you were watching the Cleveland vs. Chicago game, I saw it also.

I was totally surprised the first time I saw that guy take off his helmet, to see a cap. He is the first MLB HSM wearer I have seen do that.

I have both sizes of the All-Start helmet he was wearing. I currently wear the Small size, now that it is available. I can get a 4 stitch cap to fit under both, but it is really uncomfortable. 6 stitch or larger is out of the question. If I HAD to do it, I would go back to wearing my Large size. But then the helmet would not fit properly, so I would be concerned about protection.

Wearing a cap really cuts down your visibility, because it causes the helmet to ride up, bringing the bottom bar into your field of view, and the brim of the cap sticks out of the cage, closing off the top part of your view. It's as bad as wearing a Mask and Cap. Tunnel vision all over again.

The other thing I noticed, and would expect, is how hot it got, just sitting in front of the TV. An HSM is designed with cooling vents, that get blocked off by a cap. Did you notice that the umpire was continually wiping sweat from below his eyes, during an evening game where his partners were wearing jackets ?

He also was using two hands to remove and put his HSM on. You only need one (left) hand normally, without a cap. I found it was not possible to use one hand with a cap.

HSM's are not designed to have a cap worn under them, so I wonder what implications that creates with respect to Product Warranty, and Protection Liability for the companies manufacturing them.

Here are the possible reasons for wearing a cap that I can think of;

• Under pressure from MLB or Mentor to wear it.
• Not ready to make the complete switch to new technology.
• Doesn't know your not supposed to wear a cap under an HSM.
• Didn't want everyone to see his Ponytail.

I believe that the MLB umpire you are referring to is Bill Welke. I have seen him do it on several occasions. I do not wear a hat under my mask. Welke is the only pro umpire i have seen wear a hat under his helmet. Mark Wegner, Gary Cederstrom and C.B. Bucknor are the only ones that come to mind who wear the HSM and do not wear a hat. But I know that several others do.

Ed Hickox wears one under his helmet. I do not. I don't know what I have to do with this discussion, just my couple of pennies.

Those masks look totally silly. I will NEVER wear one.

Doesn't the HSM completely wreck a perfectly good hat?

Your right, a MASK does look totally silly. That's why everyone should wear a Hockey Style Helmet (HSM). http://www.smiling-faces.com/smilies/darthvader.gif

Resistance is futile !

Whatever. Have your silly looking headgear. You guys look totally ridiculous in them.

Oh, please. The number of catchers in helmets in youth/HS/college ball outnumbers the ones in masks.

I don't give a crap how it looks to anyone. I see better in it and feel better protected. And it would be a cold day in hell before I wore a hat under one.

This is the first season I haven't worn a traditional mask at all. I'll let you know if I can bear the heat/sweat come July, though.

Lighten up pdxblue. :p

Funny thing about this HSM vs. Mask controversy, is it only exists between umpires !

Nobody else cares...They only care about how good an umpire is. Our customers (fans, players, coaches) don't care if we dress like Lady Godiva, as long as we call a technically perfect game.

Me, I couldn't care less which my partner chooses. I'd rather work with a partner that 'works' good, rather than only 'looks' good. Get it ?

"Is better to look Good then to Feel Good, you know what I'm saying to you Darling!" Fernando

Because "You look MAAAAAAAAVVVVVVVVAlous":D :D :D

That may all be so, but to me, you look ridiculous!

I couldn't disagree more.

Totally silly? I bet your one of those guys that has one of those sun visors on the inside of your mask. Now that looks totally silly. Why would you need the sun visor, the hat your wearing is below it and it has no affect on your vision at all.

I wear the HSM (with a 4-stitch hat) all Spring and the comfort, protection and vision is far superior to the traditional mask. However, when the weather warms up, I'm back to the traditional mask due to the heat. That is the only drawback to the HSM in my opinion.

A2d ....................................
 

You're right ! MASKS do look silly !

Us cool kids wouldn't want you wearin' our stuff anyway !:D :D :D




Doug

Wow, another HSM V. MASK thread!!! Brilliant!!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_22.gif

I agree with you. Clean, pressed uniform, shined shoes, etc., are all important. Not one coach, team, or league will give a crap whether an umpire uses a traditional mask or a helmet.

Is the protection actually better? Of course the top, sides, and back of one's head is protected, but that doesn't matter at all. Has there ever been some type of study which has said that they hockey mask protects better than a standard mask? You can't say the protection is better unless you have tested it with the exact speed and location against a shot to both masks. Just saying I took a really bad shot with my standard mask, and I haven't had another bad one since doesn't mean anything, as bad shots don't occour often. You may not have taken one during that time period if you had still been wearing your standard mask.

About the same up/down view can be obtained by using a low profile standar mask. So you must be commenting on the side to side vision. But what are you using the better peripheral vision to see? I cannot think of a single thing that there is to see that cannot be seen using a standard mask.

Helmet protection is far superior to a mask.

And best when you don't wear a cap under it, by design.

I have yet to see any catcher, at any level, wear a cap under a helmet.

Cooling is better than a cap and mask, when you don't wear a cap under it, by design.

Visibility is far superior to a mask, especially when you don't wear a cap under it, by design.

Has any body, besides me, figured out that Helmets were designed to be used without a cap ?

Right mask, wrong last line.

Get your movies straight! :p

Yes.

You are preachin' to the choir.

What do you have to support this claim?

I just saw it today.

I have read posts (by Rich F?) saying that a hockey mask is hotter than a standard mask with a cap. Why is it that you guys don't agree?

Sorry Steve. And Rich !

Ahhm !

Who do you thing the Borg stole that line from ?

Watch episode IV & V again.

Two eyes that don't need glasses yet.


There's a first time for everything. Send me a picture.


Don't know. I work in Central California, where it's hot, even when it rains. I worked with a Mask for many years before switching to a Helmet. The difference is like wearing a Motorcycle Helmet (Mask & Cap) vs. a Bicycle Helmet (HSM). The HSM has built in AC, just like a bicycle helmet. I also sweat very easily, not overweight, just sweat easy. I am much cooler in an HSM than I ever was in a wool cap. The Wool Cap is what causes the overheating, not the mask or the helmet. I guess if you wore a fishnet with a mask, it would be cooler than a helmet.:cool:

I have worn the HSM for two years now. On the hottest days, I have to switch back to my standard mask because the HSM is just too hot. Yes, it may have cooling vents, but it is still hotter than a standard mask/hat combo.

Even on moderately hot days, the sweat gets into my eyes more often because there's no hat to absorb some of that sweat and stop it from flowing down from the top of the head. This is particularly noticeable for those of us who are "folically challenged" (bald), because there's no mop of hair to help hold back the sweat, either.

This is why I carry a small towel in my left ball bag, the one with no pockets. In between innings or action I remove the helmet, wipe my sweaty brow, fold up the towel and put it back in the bag. 7 seconds, sweat gone. I sweat a lot in hats too. When I have the bases, I usually have to wring my hat out late in the game. It gets hot here in the low desert.

There is no doubt the helmet is hotter. I sweat more and there's nothing to stop the sweat. Like I've said, we'll see when July rolls around whether I stick with the helmet this season. I haven't yet once the weather gets really hot.

Well that really isn't helping any of us out. Some people swear that dark shirts are so much hotter on sunny days. Somebody posted that they did an experiment and left different color shirts out in the sun for an hour and then checked the temperature of each shirt. After the hour, the black shirt was only 3 degrees hotter than the air temperature. Obviously it is all in their minds that the black shirt is hotter. When they get hot out on the field, it is because they have the black shirt on, not because it is a hot day out. But after reading the test results it is obvious that the heat difference was all in the user's head.

Perhaps the protection difference is all in your head. When you take a shot to the mask, I bet you are thinking "Wow, that would have been a bad one if I had on a standard mask." Maybe you are just like the guy who thinks he is so much hotter in the black shirt. Maybe the shot would not have been any worse had you had been wearing the standard mask.

HSM was designed for hockey goalies. Would you take a conventional catchers mask out on the ice and say it was equal in protection? What about if someone ripped a 120 mph slap shot directly at your face? It goes without saying that the helmet portion of the mask is more protective.

The facemask (and the helmet for that matter) of an HSM was designed in a wedge shape for a reason. The wedge allows a puck to glance off the mask in a way that minimizes direct force. A conventional catchers mask is somewhat flat in it's design and the impact from a direct shot is much greater.

I've spent three years in the HSM. Before that I spent fifteen in a regular umpire mask. Having been one who's worn both I can say that I'd much rather take a hard shot while wearing an HSM. The only shot that is similar between an HSM and a regular mask are direct shots to the chin. Those feel the same with either mask and tend to make my ears ring a bit.

HSM's have better vision period. Anyone who's spent some time in both knows the advantages.

A few words about cooling.

I've used what I consider the two best HSM's the All-Star and the Easton Stealth. While they are both great HSM's the Stealth is cooler. I personaly feel the Stealth is cooler than a wool cap and mask but opinions vary. The Easton also comes with sweat absorbers on top of the inner pads so sweat isn't as much of an issue. Many umpires in our area are also wearing an under armour style skull cap to soak up the sweat. Some leave it on between innings others remove it with the helmet. I'm bald so I've tried the skull cap and it works pretty well. Again, opinions vary on how the skull cap looks but in my area they've become accepted.

Earlier this season I tried wearing a regular cap underneath my HSM. It actually works but screws up the vision a bit. The beenie thing on the top of the cap is also annoying. I personaly will never wear a cap underneath an HSM again unless my local assoc. makes a rule stating that I must.

Just two cents from someone who's been there done that.

I think you are wrong. The All Star helmet you bought from Honig's was designed for baseball. The idea for the design was copied from hockey helmets, but I would assume that there are differences.

But a mask will spin allowing some of the force to be deflected to the side. It would be interesting to see the results of a test of the protection of various masks.

More protection to the side and back -- agreed.

More protection to the front -- maybe, but it doesn't, imo, "go without saying."

I play hockey (mostly as a defenseman but am a backup goalie) The differences are few. The design is basically the same. The face cage is a little different because a hockey puck is a disk and a baseball is round.

Incidently I didn't buy my All-Star HSM form Honigs. I bought both the Easton and the All-Star from a local supplier.

I've rarely had a conventional mask spin when I've been hit. Usually it stays put. Maybe I have the thing too tight who knows. I wear a HSM because my doc wants me in a helmet type protector due to the amount of concussions I've had most of which stemmed from playing sports. The concussion that broke the camels back stemmed from a bad car accident.

Well someone who has worn both extensively I think it does. But hey, what does experience have to do with anything? I recommend you give an HSM a shot so you have a way to compare.

To be honest I've never had a serious injury as a result from wearing a normal mask. However, the HSM in my experience is much better at minimizing the force of a direct shot.

Opens the Door for Change
 

2006 NFHS Baseball Rules Changes Release Date: 10/19/05

1-5-5: New Rule: Defensive players are permitted to wear face/head protection in the field. If a pitcher or any defensive player wears face/head protection, its outer covering shall have a non-glare surface.
Rationale: Although not frequent, there are occasions when defensive players suffer serious head injuries as a result of being struck by thrown or batted balls. Not surprisingly, pitchers have suffered a disproportionate share of such injuries. This addition emphasizes that fielder's face and head protection is permitted.
------
Mandated changes will be coming soon.
Boo-hoo for the hockey style mask behind home plate.
It will not be long until the fielders are required to wear cages like these.
http://www.lacrossemonkey.com/helmets.html
Look at some of the other protective equipment choices.
Lacrosse Shoulder Pads
Lacrosse Arm Guards
Lacrosse Rib Protection
Lacrosse Gloves
Jocks & Undergarments
Lacrosse Goalie Chest Guards
Lacrosse Goalie Throat Guards
Lacrosse Helmet
Lacrosse Helmet Accessories
Lacrosse Footwear
Lacrosse Equipment Bags
Baseball is missing a whole 'nother line of baseball gear accessories.
I have my on this one, http://www.lacrossemonkey.com/warrio...inghelmet.html
Get a load of this
Features:

Safety
New contoured Vision Face Mask for unparalleled vision and undeniable protection.
7-Point Face Mask Mounting System designed to protect critical impact zones.
Extended back shell length provides extra 'D' against concussions and wicked hits.
Meets or exceeds all NOCSAE standards for helmet safety.
Sculpted and integrated EVA Molded Visor and Chin Pieces for added durability and superior protection.
Rear hinge liner design made to contour to the back of your head for added comfort and heavy duty impact absorption.
Patented Composite Helmet Shell streamlined for performance and maximum protection.
Comfort
NEW light weight Warrior EVA padding liner provides unbelievable comfort without sacrificing protection.
High-impact dual density foam crown liner provides extreme protection for the top of your head, while adding lightweight comfort for maximum maneuverability.
4-Point Chin Strap keeps jaw inline for added comfort and safety.
15 Vaporflow Vent Holes make this bad boy lightweight with maximum breathability.
5 Fitted Helmet Sizes Available: Extra Large, Large, Medium, Small, and Extra Small.

Luke already beat me to this thread, covering the same exact view that i have. i love when these threads pop up...

i never thought of that, but i like it

sounds a lot like the stereotypical SUV driver of the last few years...buying a hummer because hitting telephone poles in a regular car would probably kill you, but not in a hummer. i say that as an SUV owner, im not going after people