stance adjustment

[ggk]

i'm in the middle of my 3rd year of umping. i do mostly HS varsity and I am looking to move towards college ball. i was working the plate at local summer college wood bat league the other night and my partner shows up and informs me that he is here to "take a look at me" for the assignor. both the assignor and my partner are D1 umps with a good bit of experience. they also have a lot of influence as to who makes it into our local college associations. I had the plate and after the 1st inning he tells me that i look really good, but he suggests a significant change in my stance. i work a basic box, heal to toe. hands on knees until the pitcher is about to deliver and then i drop a little lower and place my hands behind my knees and lock for the pitch. he suggested that i spread my stance a little wider and just stay with my arms locked and hands on knees. i was a bit hesitant to try it in a game of this level, but i didn't want to seem difficult so i tried it for the rest of the game and had decent results. i've worked the new stance the past 2 nights with better and better results and now i feel pretty comfortable.
he also suggested that i change my swing strike call. i turn and point for called strikes and simply raise a fist for swinging strikes. he suggested that i also point for swinging strikes and reserve the fist for swinging 3rd strikes.
any thoughts or recomendations for anyone? what do you guys do?
thanks.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by ggk

he also suggested that i change my swing strike call. i turn and point for called strikes and simply raise a fist for swinging strikes. he suggested that i also point for swinging strikes and reserve the fist for swinging 3rd strikes.
any thoughts or recomendations for anyone? what do you guys do?
thanks.

I usually like to see "pointers" point high, about shoulder height or higher. That's so that the strike mechanic can be easily seen. But I care a whole lot more (maybe a thousand times more ) about a consistent strike zone and how you position yourself in the vaious situations than I do how you indicate a strike.

Another thing I look for is how much a PU turns when he points. In the 2-man system if you are turning when you point, who is watching the ball? Hopefully the BU huh? Others may not care, but I don't like to see it. JMHO.

[ggk]

thanks.
he did say to point high - which i try to do. i've also thought about losing the ball when I point, but i see it done so often - i know this is not a valid reason.
his theory was that this stance will allow for a more consitent zone as i will have less variation in my look since i an really locked in with the arms. it has seemed to work so far. it also prevents my chin from dropping below the top of the catcher's head.

[irefky]

That will be my mechanic adjustment next season, I have been turning my head away from the field of play to point a strike. I have seen PU point and be looking straight ahead. I have seen some stand and point toward 1st base, looking straight ahead or toward 1st base, which I like better.

I would follow the recommendations of your evaluator since he and you assignor has all this power to get you to the next level. You adjust to who pays you, right?

My strike 3 changed this year, I felt like I was too much for HS level. I simply raise right hand in the air and clinch my fist. Nothing elaborate to show up anyone but the point is taken.

[RPatrino]

GGK,

You have been introduced to the Gerry Davis system!!! Using your old stance, you never really were locked in. In the GD, you work high and further away from the catcher. I have used the GD for the last 5 years or so. I first used it at a Gerry D. run clinic, further perfected it at another GD clinic and several other locally run clinics.

I am a 'pointer' as well. I call all my strikes the same, with a point. Doug Eddings convinced me that the hammer just doesn't work. On a swinging strike I point with no verbal call, on a DTS is point and wait, and I hammer the out once the batter is retired.

Last night, for some odd reason, I decided to try to use the 'hammer' for all strikes again. Bad idea. Good thing it was just a scrimmage for a local JUCO team. My timing was WAY OFF. Needless to say, I'm not going back to the hammer anytime soon.

As far as a 'punch out' called third strike call, I start the chainsaw!!! As far as not adding a little pizazz to that call, thats up to the ump. I think most expect to see that, and are puzzled when they don't.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by ggk

thanks.
he did say to point high - which i try to do. i've also thought about losing the ball when I point, but i see it done so often - i know this is not a valid reason.
his theory was that this stance will allow for a more consitent zone as i will have less variation in my look since i an really locked in with the arms. it has seemed to work so far. it also prevents my chin from dropping below the top of the catcher's head.

Sounds like the GD Stance. There’s an article regarding the GD Stance (with pictures) on Officiating.com. I use this stance.

Basically it says:

Put your nose on the inside corner & keep it there.
Move only if the batter (very rarely, F2) blocks your view of F1’s release
Work an arm’s length behind F2 (or move as you adjust)

Spread your legs much wider than your shoulders.
Lean over & put both hands on your knees
Don’t push down on the shin guards

Rest your weight on your knees
Lock & tuck your elbows
Just before the time of the pitch, drop your seat about 4”

[orioles35]

I just switched to this a few games ago and I really like it. I feel more square to the pitcher/batter (instead of standing in the slot at an angle, looking across home plate) and the fatigue factor is non-existent at the end of the game. Yeah, I took a couple of fouls to the chest, but hey...part of the job description.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by orioles35

I just switched to this a few games ago and I really like it. I feel more square to the pitcher/batter (instead of standing in the slot at an angle, looking across home plate) and the fatigue factor is non-existent at the end of the game. Yeah, I took a couple of fouls to the chest, but hey...part of the job description.

If you were in the Slot at an angle you weren't working it right.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by ggk

i've also thought about losing the ball when I point, but i see it done so often - i know this is not a valid reason.

Not seeing the ball while you are doing your superbly polished Point is just fine, until you miss a play !

I started out pointing, but when I switched to the GD System, as you are being nudged into, I changed my Strike indication to a Low Extended Fist Toward The Pitcher. I find it much easier than trying to twist and point in the wide GD Stance. Plus, my eye is never off the ball ! Also, if a pitcher is working quickly, I don't have to move my feet between pitches, which makes my look at each pitch even more consistent.

3rd Strike-Not-Caught...Indicate the strike, give the Safe signal.

I reserve the Hammer for outs.

[IceGator8]

This is an interesting discussion.

I point without looking to the side. I started to go with the mechanic where you signal the out in front of your body (I suppose this has been referred to as the hammer) but one of my mentors changed me back. He told me (take it with a grain of salt) that the hammer was adopted by a lot of major league guys because it's easier for the scorekeeper to see using a tv. He stated that most of the scorekeepers on that level look at the plate ump through the outfield tv camera that you usually see when you watch MLB broadcasts. In other words it's a TV mechanic. He said pointing to the side is easier to see when the scorekeeper sits behind you. I bought into it and have been a side pointer ever since.

With all that said I'm all for doing what your assigner or evaluator tells you to do.

Eric

[nickrego]

I tried the pointing to the side, without looking to the side, but I found it very uncomfortable. It just felt funny.

I agree with you that you need to do what your assignor's require, unless you are not concerned about moving up (many umpires aren't).

[DG]

Yep, as mentioned by several, he has introduced you to GD stance. Learn it and use it and you will call better games and not be as tired at the end.

I'm a hammer guy, I don't point. That's the way I was taught when I first went to school and I believe how they still teach it. Swinging or looking does not matter to me, although I am sure I am more casual with the hammer (ie small hammer) on a swinging strike. My called third strike is different as it is for most folks.

What do I think about the changes? It doesn't matter what you or I think. If this guy has a lot to say about who works college games and you want to work college games you will change, per his suggestions.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by nickrego

I tried the pointing to the side, without looking to the side, but I found it very uncomfortable. It just felt funny.

I agree with you that you need to do what your assignor's require, unless you are not concerned about moving up (many umpires aren't).

When working 2-man I point to the side while looking forward. It does feel strange at first but I got used to it. I would hate to be giving the crowd my best strike mechanic and learn that I had missed a play because I took my eyes off the ball. Now get me in a 3 or 4-man game and I can "strike mechanic" with the best of them

[irefky]

Originally Posted by orioles35

I just switched to this a few games ago and I really like it. I feel more square to the pitcher/batter (instead of standing in the slot at an angle, looking across home plate) and the fatigue factor is non-existent at the end of the game. Yeah, I took a couple of fouls to the chest, but hey...part of the job description.

What do you mean at an angle? Square your body as you are getting ready to sit down on the toilet!!!!!!!!!!!! The better way to look at it, if you are at a gas station restroom and you don't want to sit down on it, then you have the correct stance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys will never forget it each time you head for the john, this good piece of toilet-ideology!!!!!!!!!

AT an angle, I still don't visualize what you are doing? I guess mine don't make any sense either.

[DG]

I worked with a D1 guy years ago, last game of the HS season. He was not there to evaluate, he was recovering from appendectomy and had not worked in a while so he was doing bases.

After the game he complemented me on my positioning. I was always where I needed to be and actually had covered his position a time or two since he was not moving as fast as normal. He also gave me 5 suggestions.

1. I was not staying down on pitches high and tight. I was coming up before the pitch arrived. I changed to the GD stance and I stay down on all pitches now.
2. My chest protector was too long. It made me look larger than I am, although I am large enough as it is. I bought a new 13" protector.
3. On close pitches that are balls I should call BALL much louder when the count calls for it (ie 2 strike or 3 ball counts) to convince everybody I am sure. I do this now.
4. When the game is over I should not look for someone to hand the balls to, but simply toss them toward the home dugout. I do toss the balls now.
5. I should not bring water.

Well, 4 out of 5 is not bad. I still bring a water bottle, especially when the temperature rises, unless I know for a fact that water will be available, which is not often.