What would you do?

CVO2 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 05:17pm

Runners on 1st and 3rd no out.
F1(rightie) has a very quick step off and throw pick move. I'm in B

F1 begins the pick move, my head goes to first, no ball, i look back and catch very end of play at 3rd.
He had a great fake to first (fooled me) and very quick turn and throw to third.
Like I said when I turn and focus all I see is runner in prone position on the bag and F5 with glove on arm.
I have no idea if it was safe or out.
What would you do?

RPatrino · #2 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 05:24pm

First, let the ball lead you to the base. You don't move toward first until the ball is released. Same technique while in B or C on the steal, don't turn and face 2b until the ball has passed you and leads you to the base. If you don't do this, you could very easily get pegged in the back of the noggin. Very embarrasing.

Secondly, remember that a pitcher can't fake to 1st unless he has completely stepped OFF the rubber. Normally the move is a third to first fake. If he was still in contact with the rubber and he faked to 1st that is a balk.

In your situation, absent seeing a tag, you have to call the runner safe. You could ask your partner for help assuming he saw anything.

And to review, any overthrow into DBT while a pitcher is off the rubber is a 2 base award.

Bob P.

CVO2 · #3 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 05:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPatrino

First, let the ball lead you to the base. You don't move toward first until the ball is released. Same technique while in B or C on the steal, don't turn and face 2b until the ball has passed you and leads you to the base. If you don't do this, you could very easily get pegged in the back of the noggin. Very embarrasing.

Secondly, remember that a pitcher can't fake to 1st unless he has completely stepped OFF the rubber. Normally the move is a third to first fake. If he was still in contact with the rubber and he faked to 1st that is a balk.

In your situation, absent seeing a tag, you have to call the runner safe. You could ask your partner for help assuming he saw anything.

And to review, any overthrow into DBT while a pitcher is off the rubber is a 2 base award.
Bob P.

1. I know I screwed up. I learned a lesson.
2. He was totally off the rubber
3. Thanks for the reminder. I'm always cognizant of the 1 or 2 base award re the pitcher
4. If you were caught in this situation What would you do?

UmpJM · #4 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 05:40pm

CV02,

Although you didn't say, I'm guessing you were working solo on this one.

Since you didn't see the tag, I believe the proper call is safe.

If I'm the defensive coach & I think my players got the runner, I'm obviously not going to like that call very much. But I'll get over it.

I believe that coaches have to realize that if they only hire one umpire for a game, he can't see everything.

JM

CVO2 · #5 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 05:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachJM

CV02,

Although you didn't say, I'm guessing you were working solo on this one.

Since you didn't see the tag, I believe the proper call is safe.

If I'm the defensive coach & I think my players got the runner, I'm obviously not going to like that call very much. But I'll get over it.

I believe that coaches have to realize that if they only hire one umpire for a game, he can't see everything.

JM

No I was in B 2 man game.

Justme · #6 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 05:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CVO2

1. I know I screwed up. I learned a lesson.
2. He was totally off the rubber
3. Thanks for the reminder. I'm always cognizant of the 1 or 2 base award re the pitcher
4. If you were caught in this situation What would you do?

If you didn't see the tag then the call is "safe", you can't call what you didn't see.

You can go to your partner for help, especially if it becomes evident that everyone saw what happened but you.

As you've already been reminded, watch the ball and let it take you to the play.

UmpJM · #7 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 05:47pm

CV02,

In that case, I believe it would be acceptable to get some input from your partner on that one. If neither of you saw the tag, I still think your best call is safe.

JM

UmpJM · #8 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 06:13pm

PWL,

I'm just a dumb coach so some of the umpire mechanics and positioning stuff is a little confusing to me. Could you please explain why it would make sense for the BU to be in C with an R1 & R3 and no outs?

Thanks.

JM

DG · #9 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 06:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachJM

PWL,

I'm just a dumb coach so some of the umpire mechanics and positioning stuff is a little confusing to me. Could you please explain why it would make sense for the BU to be in C with an R1 & R3 and no outs?

Thanks.

JM

It's irrelevant where you are standing if you are looking at 1B when there is a play at 3B.

DG · #10 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 06:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CVO2

Runners on 1st and 3rd no out.
F1(rightie) has a very quick step off and throw pick move. I'm in B

F1 begins the pick move, my head goes to first, no ball, i look back and catch very end of play at 3rd.
He had a great fake to first (fooled me) and very quick turn and throw to third.
Like I said when I turn and focus all I see is runner in prone position on the bag and F5 with glove on arm.
I have no idea if it was safe or out.
What would you do?

No idea if he is safe our out? Call him safe, see what the reaction is, and ask for help from partner if there is a sh*t storm. You blew it by not watching the ball. If your partner can help great. If your partner got a great look at an out, change your call and when (or if) the offensive coach comes out to argue tell him you got faked out by the fake to 1B but your partner got a great look at the play. The truth is the truth.

GarthB · #11 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 07:13pm

1. You need to see the out to call it. If you didn't see it, the call is "safe."

2. Leave your partner out of this. Unless he broke to one side or another, he was straightlined and would be guessing at best. This is not a play on which to get "help." It's your call. If you screwed up, take the heat.

briancurtin · #12 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 07:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG

It's irrelevant where you are standing if you are looking at 1B when there is a play at 3B.

bingo. without the ball you have no play, so let the ball take you there.

CVO2 · #13 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 07:47pm

I appreciate everyone letting me know I screwed up, although I already had that figured out.
My reason for admitting myscrew up on this forum was to get advice on what to do after the screw up. I don't expect it to happen again but I am curious how seasoned guys would suggest to handle it.
I made the safe call, did not bring my partner into it and took a little heat, did not admit to not seeing it. Simply told the coach "that it looked safe from here" that's all I had to say. I felt admitting i didn't see it and/or bringing my partner into it may cause more problems at the moment and later in the game than it solved. What do you think?

DG · #14 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 07:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CVO2

I made the safe call, did not bring my partner into it and took a little heat, did not admit to not seeing it. Simply told the coach "that it looked safe from here" that's all I had to say. I felt admitting i didn't see it and/or bringing my partner into it may cause more problems at the moment and later in the game than it solved. What do you think?

I think you lied to the coach.

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Sat May 20, 2006, 08:26pm

If you did not learn anything from this, you know you have to watch the throw and not anticipate a throw. Now this will never happen to you again. No reason to beat yourself up about this. We have made similar mistakes at some point in our career.

Peace