What would you do?
 

Runners on 1st and 3rd no out.
F1(rightie) has a very quick step off and throw pick move. I'm in B

F1 begins the pick move, my head goes to first, no ball, i look back and catch very end of play at 3rd.
He had a great fake to first (fooled me) and very quick turn and throw to third.
Like I said when I turn and focus all I see is runner in prone position on the bag and F5 with glove on arm.
I have no idea if it was safe or out.
What would you do?

First, let the ball lead you to the base. You don't move toward first until the ball is released. Same technique while in B or C on the steal, don't turn and face 2b until the ball has passed you and leads you to the base. If you don't do this, you could very easily get pegged in the back of the noggin. Very embarrasing.

Secondly, remember that a pitcher can't fake to 1st unless he has completely stepped OFF the rubber. Normally the move is a third to first fake. If he was still in contact with the rubber and he faked to 1st that is a balk.

In your situation, absent seeing a tag, you have to call the runner safe. You could ask your partner for help assuming he saw anything.

And to review, any overthrow into DBT while a pitcher is off the rubber is a 2 base award.

Bob P.

1. I know I screwed up. I learned a lesson.
2. He was totally off the rubber
3. Thanks for the reminder. I'm always cognizant of the 1 or 2 base award re the pitcher
4. If you were caught in this situation What would you do?

CV02,

Although you didn't say, I'm guessing you were working solo on this one.

Since you didn't see the tag, I believe the proper call is safe.

If I'm the defensive coach & I think my players got the runner, I'm obviously not going to like that call very much. But I'll get over it.

I believe that coaches have to realize that if they only hire one umpire for a game, he can't see everything.

JM

No I was in B 2 man game.

If you didn't see the tag then the call is "safe", you can't call what you didn't see.

You can go to your partner for help, especially if it becomes evident that everyone saw what happened but you.

As you've already been reminded, watch the ball and let it take you to the play.

CV02,

In that case, I believe it would be acceptable to get some input from your partner on that one. If neither of you saw the tag, I still think your best call is safe.

JM

PWL,

I'm just a dumb coach so some of the umpire mechanics and positioning stuff is a little confusing to me. Could you please explain why it would make sense for the BU to be in C with an R1 & R3 and no outs?

Thanks.

JM

It's irrelevant where you are standing if you are looking at 1B when there is a play at 3B.

No idea if he is safe our out? Call him safe, see what the reaction is, and ask for help from partner if there is a sh*t storm. You blew it by not watching the ball. If your partner can help great. If your partner got a great look at an out, change your call and when (or if) the offensive coach comes out to argue tell him you got faked out by the fake to 1B but your partner got a great look at the play. The truth is the truth.

1. You need to see the out to call it. If you didn't see it, the call is "safe."

2. Leave your partner out of this. Unless he broke to one side or another, he was straightlined and would be guessing at best. This is not a play on which to get "help." It's your call. If you screwed up, take the heat.

bingo. without the ball you have no play, so let the ball take you there.

I appreciate everyone letting me know I screwed up, although I already had that figured out.
My reason for admitting myscrew up on this forum was to get advice on what to do after the screw up. I don't expect it to happen again but I am curious how seasoned guys would suggest to handle it.
I made the safe call, did not bring my partner into it and took a little heat, did not admit to not seeing it. Simply told the coach "that it looked safe from here" that's all I had to say. I felt admitting i didn't see it and/or bringing my partner into it may cause more problems at the moment and later in the game than it solved. What do you think?

I think you lied to the coach.

If you did not learn anything from this, you know you have to watch the throw and not anticipate a throw. Now this will never happen to you again. No reason to beat yourself up about this. We have made similar mistakes at some point in our career.

Peace

The mechanics that we use in our area is to have the BU in the B position with runners on 1st and 3rd. That is also what the NCAA mechanics say as well.

Peace

I agree with this 200%!!! This is NOT a time to get help, unless there was some kind of out of the ordinary something or another that happened that kept you from seeing it well. But, it was just your screw up. Take the heat. In this case, you might be forgiven if you tell the truth to the coach that is hurt by your momentary lack of focus! ;) We have all been there at one point of another.

JM,

We have had this debate on several occasions. R1 and R3 was traditionally taught by the pro schools as being in C back in the day (at least in 1986 when it was taught to me). Somewhere along the way, umpires started popularizing the B position with runners at the corners. Now B is the accepted mechanic, but some old school guys, myself included, find that starting in C gives superior angles for certain situations with R1 and R3. Admittedly, you trade some distance on the pickoff at 1st base. This however, poses no problem, as it is only a little farther away and clearly visible.

There are B umpires and there are C umpires, and no amount of debate seems to convince one camp or the other that they are wrong. My former association (where I was taught C from the pro manuals) has it as personal preference and totally optional.

I agree with Steve. I personally like the C position when working a 3 or 4 man with a runner on first, particularly with a steal attempt at 2nd. Maybe it is because we have the runner at first completely in our field of vision?

Bob P.

SD Steve, Bob P. & PWL,

Thanks for the explanation. I asked because in the games I coach (and the limited reading I've done on the subject) I never see the BU in C unless there is an R2 (speaking strictly in terms of 2 man crews, not 3 or 4).

At the level I coach, when it's R1 and R3 (only), the R1 attempting to steal 2B is almost inevitable, so what you say makes sense to me in terms of the best position for the most likely play.

Thanks.

JM

R1 and R3 with less than 2 outs....C
With 2 outs...B or C. I use B...
Old school and works really well.
griff

I before E except after C, no.....wait.....sorry, wrong board. I was looking for the English Grammar Rules forum!:D

1. You have to call him safe if you didn't see it.
and
2. If I'm your partner and this happens and you come ANYWHERE near me for input...lookout! You have to eat this one on your own. Involving your partner is just going to make things worse. Call it, and eat it.


Bainer.