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Mon Jul 16, 2001, 11:23pm
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I umpire Little League 9-10 in Ohio. Tonight there were 2 situations I wasn't completely sure of. Your clarification will help.
1) Infield fly that is not caught or touched, it hits the ground. R1 stays put. R2 leaves early and the base is tagged by a fielder who picked up the ball...he's out, thats easy. R3 waits for the ball to hit the ground and goes home. I call him safe. Did I make the right call on R3 or is the ball dead if noone catches it or touches it? 2) Bases loaded: Dribbler hit to F3, he fields it and he and BR collide at first with BR being called out. The collision causes the ball to fly about 20 feet away. All 3 runners who were on base score. I called them safe, Coach wanted runner interference called. What about this call? Thank you in advance. 
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 02:34am
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Quote:
Situation 1) ON an infield fly situation the batter is automatically out thus there is no force siutation. Since there is no force and the the ball was dropped, R2 is not out unless he is tagged while off the base. Touching third base on an infield fly will not count as an out since you never have a force situation on an infield fly rule. In short, the ball is always alive on an infield fly. The batter is out and R3 is safe. You made the wrong call on R2(unless there is some penalty in little league for leaving a bag to soon. I am giving you the Fed interpretation) who should be safe at second unless he was tagged while off the base. If the ball were caught and B2 didn't tag up then he could be called out if a fielder with the ball gets to second base before B2 Situation 2) If the batter runner runs outside the 3ft running lane (last half of the distance from home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base, you have interference and all runners return to the base at the time of the pitch. A batter-runner is considered outside the running lane lines if either foot is outside either line. The coach may have been right if the batter runner was running in fair territory. If he was running in his designated running path you probably have just a collision and the play stands. It all depends on where the batter runner was at at the time of the collision. I'm also curious if the batter runner has to have one foot completely outside of the 3ft lane to be considered as running outside of the base path or would only one foot partially outside of the running lane be considered as running out of the base path? [Edited by Gre144 on Jul 17th, 2001 at 02:40 AM]
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 08:03am
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Originally posted by t2nyval
I umpire Little League 9-10 in Ohio. Tonight there were 2 situations I wasn't completely sure of. Your clarification will help. 1) Infield fly that is not caught or touched, it hits the ground. R1 stays put. R2 leaves early and the base is tagged by a fielder who picked up the ball...he's out, thats easy. R3 waits for the ball to hit the ground and goes home. I call him safe. Did I make the right call on R3 or is the ball dead if noone catches it or touches it? Point 1. You said the IF was not caught or touched - therefore, was it fair? ie; Suppose you call IF and the ball lands untouched (in fair territory) before it crosses either first or third and then goes foul where it is finally touched - Then we simply have a Foul ball. As a side note: the proper mechanic when ball is close to foul territory is for the umpire to signal and verbailize IF - If Fair. Point 2. An IF is treated no different than a regular fly ball except that the batter is out. Assuming ball landed untouched and was fair, there is no longer a force out because the batter did not become a runner - he was declared out because of the IF. Your call of out for r2 is not correct. Point 3. In LL there is rule 7.13 for leaving early. Let's assume you made the correct call in point 2 - in other words r2 was safe and advanced to third when ball hit ground untouched. After playing action ends, you would return r2 back to second as a result of the 7.13 infraction. 2) Bases loaded: Dribbler hit to F3, he fields it and he and BR collide at first with BR being called out. The collision causes the ball to fly about 20 feet away. All 3 runners who were on base score. I called them safe, Coach wanted runner interference called. What about this call? Thank you in advance. I have nothing on this call. I envision F3 high tailing it to the bag as well as B1 running as fast as he can. Both arrive at approx the same time and the momentum of the play is what causes the collision. In order for interference to be called on this play, the BR would have to do something to F3 like purposely knock the ball out of the glove. Pete Booth
__________________
Peter M. Booth
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 08:41am
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Quote:
A BR is out of the running lane when (at least) one foot is completely outside the lane. The lines are part of the lane. (It's like the batters box in this respect).
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 09:05am
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Let's try a few more, t2nyval. With your new-found knowledge of the infield fly rule, how would you respond to the following?
1: Bases loaded, one out. Batter hits a high fly ball, umpire calls the infield fly. R3 (The runner from third base) and R2 take off right away, but R1 stays close to first. The ball drops to the ground; R3 has reached the plate, R2 is on third, and R1 and BR are both on first base. F1 (the pitcher) picks up the ball and throws to second. F6 tags second with the ball, then throws to F3, who tags both "runners" on first base. 2: Bases loaded, one out. Batter hits a high fly ball, umpire calls the infield fly. All runners stay near their bases. The ball is missed by F3 in the shallow infield grass. It falls untouched to the ground in the grass, then rolls into foul ground. Runners then start going, and everybody moves up a base before F2 can retrieve the ball in time to throw anybody out. 3: Bases loaded, two outs. Batter hits a high fly ball. R1 gets a late jump from first. The ball drops untouched to the ground near F4, who flips to F6 at 2B for the apparent force out. OK guys, lets give t2nyval a chance to answer before jumping all over these "easy" ones. P-Sz
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 01:43pm
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OK, 1) BR is automatically out due to IF rule. R1 is safe staying on first, he doesnt have to run. Play at second doesnt matter, and 1 run scores, man safe at 3rd. Thats how i interpret the IF rule and what previous posts explain.
2) BR is out for IF rule, ball is fair because it landed in fair territory past first (ball doesnt have to land on infield to be eligible for IF rule, just easily catchable by infielder) , all runners are ok with what they did because ball is still live. 3) 2 outs, no IF rule. It seems like force out at 2nd, end of half inning. That was nice, Well how did I do?? 1 more, what if an IF is called (blown call) but the ball travels deep into the outfield? I saw this happen this year. Probably cost the batting team the game.
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 02:25pm
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1) You got it. I knew you would; this one's the whole point of the other posts above.
2) Gotcha there! Reread the infield fly rule again. You'll see that where it first lands DOES NOT DETERMINE whether it is fair or foul. In fact, fair/foul in this case is NO DIFFERENT than fair or foul in any other case. The correct call for the umpire is, while the ball is in the air, "Infield fly, if fair!" Once the ball rolls foul and is touch by the catcher there (as above), it is a FOUL BALL, by the definition of foul ball (OBR 2.00)--this really has nothing to do with the infield fly. A foul is a foul. The ball is dead, the batter is not out, the runners can not advance, etc... 3) This one was easy and you got it correct. 4) Now your question. The answer is, a mess! Bases loaded, one out. Fly ball to second baseman, umpire calls "Infield fly!" However, the ball is traveling a little deeper than initially thought; the fielder never quite gets settled and misses the catch rather awkwardly. RULING: Eat the call. The umpire made his judgment that the ball was "catchable by an infielder with ordinary effort." Maybe it was somewhat bad judgement, but we should live with it. Bases loaded, one out. Fly ball to second baseman, umpire calls "Infield fly!" However, the ball is traveling much, much deeper than initially thought; the ball lands between the outfielders--not in front of them. RULING: As soon as the umpire realizes his mistake, he should yell out "Batter's alive! Batter's alive!" to correct his call. This case is similar to that in which the umpire calls "out" on a tag and then sees the ball lying on the ground. It would be a travesty of the game not to correct this call. What do you do if the ball is somewhere in between there? That's why we get paid the big bucks--you decide whether to correct you call or eat it. Of course, a good umpire will not make these mistakes in the first place. To avoid them, don't be afraid to wait a little while on your infield fly calls. P-Sz
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 03:22pm
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The running lane has nothing to do with this play. The running lane is only applicable when a BR hinders a fielder from taking a throw at first base. There was no throw to first, there can be no running lane violation. __________________________________________________ _________ According to 8-4-1-G the batter-runner is out if he runs outside the three-foot running lane while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base. What does it mean for a ball to be fielded? Would it be interference if F3, who is playing a few feet in front of first base, fields the ball then runs towards first base and gets run over by BR, who was behind F3 at the time of the collision and who was running in fair territory? For that matter, would it be obstruction if F3 who has the ball runs back towards first base in the BR running lane and a collision occurs? According to the definition that you gave me above, I don't see how you could justify an interference or obstruction call in the scenarios that I gave even though such calls would be justified. Greg
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 04:47pm
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OK, I hate to say it but I misinterpreted question 2, I was thinking "grass" meaning shallow outfield (my fields only have grass in the outfield), not shallow infield as I now see you indicated in the question. Based on that, I understand the ball is the same as any other fair/foul ball. As I interpreted it, if this happened "past first base" would my answer be correct? Thanks for the help.
OK another one, ball hit to F4, he charges into the baseline to field the ball while runner is running, runner moves to avoid him but lightly touches F4 while he is fielding the ball, he fields it fairly cleanly, attempts a tag but misses and runner arrives safely. Is this runner interference even though contact was minimal, he fielded the ball, and fielder was in the runners path? [Edited by t2nyval on Jul 17th, 2001 at 04:51 PM]
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Tue Jul 17, 2001, 04:55pm
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Hey, no problem. Of course, an optimal LL field has grass in the infield. (Ha! I'm lucky to get Babe Ruth fields with grass!) Yes, you would be correct if the ball was legitimately fair by definition of fair/foul. Although, I'd be hard-pressed to deem any fly ball near the foul line in the outfield grass "catchable with ordinary effort".
P-Sz
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