Bunt attempt....strike?

[just another ref]

Situation: high school semifinal game, player has squared to bunt, pitch comes in behind him, he arches his back and lunges forward, made every effort to avoid the ball, but it grazed him in the lower back anyway; umpire awards him 1st base; coach comes out to argue; We couldn't hear what he was saying, but from his gestures he apparently was asking for a strike, showing that the batter was in a squared position, bat extended over the plate, never pulled it back, etc. Question: What defines what is a strike as far as a bunt attempt. My understanding was that you could do anything you wanted with the bat so long as you pull it back to your chest before the pitch arrives. I'm sure this is oversimplified. Also, in this particular situation, the pitch is behind the batter, he is obviously scrambling forward in his attempt to avoid the ball, so when he switched to the "avoid the ball" mode, does that make the location and movement of his bat irrelevant, or what.
Thanks in advance for your help.

[blueump]

No attempt pull the bat back needed. Sounds as if the pitch was in the batter's box, no where near the plate.

For it to be a strike (call this oversimplification) the batter has to "make an attempt" to hit the ball. No attempt to hit the ball here, no strike.

Good call by the BLUE!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by blueump

No attempt pull the bat back needed. Sounds as if the pitch was in the batter's box, no where near the plate.

For it to be a strike (call this oversimplification) the batter has to "make an attempt" to hit the ball. No attempt to hit the ball here, no strike.

Good call by the BLUE!

I'm a little lost. If the ball had been outside, in the other batters box, that is nowhere near the plate either, but if he stands there with the bat stuck out would that be a strike? On a swing, it has to do with whether the bat crossed the plate, as opposed to if the batter "broke his wrists" as many will argue, correct? So, part of my question was, does the bat crossing the plate on the bunt attempt have significance, (I think not) and does it have to be fully retracted, or just on the way back, (obviously not attempting to hit the ball then) or what?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm a little lost. If the ball had been outside, in the other batters box, that is nowhere near the plate either, but if he stands there with the bat stuck out would that be a strike? On a swing, it has to do with whether the bat crossed the plate, as opposed to if the batter "broke his wrists" as many will argue, correct? So, part of my question was, does the bat crossing the plate on the bunt attempt have significance, (I think not) and does it have to be fully retracted, or just on the way back, (obviously not attempting to hit the ball then) or what?

It is only a strike if the umpire judges that the batter attempted to hit the ball.

If the bunter just stands there, he didn't attempt to hit the ball. He does NOT have to draw the bat back.

There is no "crossed theplate" or "broke the wrists either.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm a little lost. If the ball had been outside, in the other batters box, that is nowhere near the plate either, but if he stands there with the bat stuck out would that be a strike? On a swing, it has to do with whether the bat crossed the plate, as opposed to if the batter "broke his wrists" as many will argue, correct? So, part of my question was, does the bat crossing the plate on the bunt attempt have significance, (I think not) and does it have to be fully retracted, or just on the way back, (obviously not attempting to hit the ball then) or what?

Where do you get the "if the bat crossed the plate" strike? Its nowhere in my FED rulebook. Do you bring these "myths of baseball rules" to you when you ump games? For a strike to be called, a batter must attempt to hit the ball or the ball must go through the strike zone when over the plate.

It has nothing to do with "breaking the wrists", nothing to do with "crossing the plate". Plain and simple, the batter has to attempt to hit the ball.

On a bunt, the bat does not have to be pulled back. A batter can leave the bat in the strike zone and still have a ball called. To be a stike the ball has to be either in the strike zone, or the batter has to make an attempt to hit it.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by blueump

Where do you get the "if the bat crossed the plate" strike? Its nowhere in my FED rulebook. Do you bring these "myths of baseball rules" to you when you ump games? For a strike to be called, a batter must attempt to hit the ball or the ball must go through the strike zone when over the plate.

It has nothing to do with "breaking the wrists", nothing to do with "crossing the plate". Plain and simple, the batter has to attempt to hit the ball.

On a bunt, the bat does not have to be pulled back. A batter can leave the bat in the strike zone and still have a ball called. To be a stike the ball has to be either in the strike zone, or the batter has to make an attempt to hit it.

Give the guy a break.
He puts himself out there asking a question, (supposedly this is the forum for that) to improve himself, and you have to chastise him and make fun.
If he was giving these "myths" as advice that would be a different story, but the guys asking a question.
Have all lawyers lost their civility or just you?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by NIump50

Give the guy a break.
He puts himself out there asking a question, (supposedly this is the forum for that) to improve himself, and you have to chastise him and make fun.
If he was giving these "myths" as advice that would be a different story, but the guys asking a question.
Have all lawyers lost their civility or just you?

To quote Sgt. Hulka, "lighten up, Francis!"

[blueump]

Originally Posted by NIump50

Give the guy a break.
He puts himself out there asking a question, (supposedly this is the forum for that) to improve himself, and you have to chastise him and make fun.
If he was giving these "myths" as advice that would be a different story, but the guys asking a question.
Have all lawyers lost their civility or just you?

How did I "chastize" him or "make fun" of him? I think you better re-read my post. I simply pointed these out as "myths". These "myths" are readily available by simply searching this web site with words like "bunt" and "strike".

Oh, and I'm not a lawyer...wherever you got that misinformation from.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by NIump50

Give the guy a break.
He puts himself out there asking a question, (supposedly this is the forum for that) to improve himself, and you have to chastise him and make fun.
If he was giving these "myths" as advice that would be a different story, but the guys asking a question.
Have all lawyers lost their civility or just you?

I believe you are mistaking blueump for "bluelawyer" or "lawump" making the hybrid "blueump," who is not a lawyer, but plays one on TV.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the ball had been outside, in the other batters box, that is nowhere near the plate either, but if he stands there with the bat stuck out would that be a strike?

It would not.

On a swing, it has to do with whether the bat crossed the plate, as opposed to if the batter "broke his wrists" as many will argue, correct?

Not exactly. If the barrel of the bat travels in front of the batter's body, that is generally called a strike...the plate is not in issue. For example, you could have a batter set up deep in the box, 'offer' at a pitch, but the bat never break the front edge of the plate.

Ultimately it is the PU/BU's (if appealed) judgement ALONE as to whether the batter offered at the pitch. The bat does not have to 'break the plane' to be an offer. The 'wrist' thing is a myth, erase it from your memory banks.

Just talking about bunts, generally, most will say that if the bunter moves the bat forward toward the ball in flight, its an attempt. Just holding the bat stationary in the strike zone is NOT an attempt...the PU will call the pitch a strike/ball based on location of the pitch.

So, part of my question was, does the bat crossing the plate on the bunt attempt have significance, (I think not) and does it have to be fully retracted, or just on the way back, (obviously not attempting to hit the ball then) or what?

I do this: If a bunter squares, then moves the bat forward (however slight) toward the pitched ball in flight, its a strike. If it remains motionless/bat is being retracted/bat is fully retracted during the pitch and the pitch is out of the strike zone, its a ball.
The plate does not come into play here.

Does that help?

[Tim C]

I believe that 7-2-3 (that's from memory) in the FED case book covers the "bat over the plate" during a bunt quite well.

Simply leaving the bat over the plate does not make the action a strike -- as stated above there must be an attempt to contact the ball for that meer act to be deemed a strike.

Regards,