"Help" Plays
 

Here's one that has been bothering me for a while.

Does anybody out there have an authoritative list of "help" plays?

Example: a check swing that the Plate Umpire sends down to U1 or U3. Common "help" play. Pulled foot or swipe tag on the BR before he reaches first that U1 sends back to PU- common help play.

As a related question, does anybody know when it's proper to ask for help on the play, when it's ok to refuse to go get help and when the other umpire should jump in without being asked. For example: check swing is a help play- when to ask is when the CATCHER (at least in my association) asks or when the PU might have been screened on the play . . . but when does PU say "No, I ain't sending that one down to my partner." Here in my association, we pregame that the Base Umpire(s) are supposed to immediately kill a foul ball that hits the batter in the box, without being asked for help.

The purpose of this post is to provide a decent reply to the coach when he asks/argues:

Coach: "I think you got that call wrong. Can you go get help from your partner?"

Blue: "Coach, that's not a help play. That call is all mine."

Coach: "Why isn't it a help play? Why can't you ask?"

Blue: " . . ." or "Because it's not."

A reasonable question deserves a reasonable answer. And for my own edification, I'd like to know if there is a decent answer.

Strikes and outs!

the catcher doesnt appeal, he asks PU for an appeal. i dont do anything until my PU comes to me.

You are right and that's what I mean. "When to ask" is when do you ask your partner for help- i.e.- the plate umpire asks the base guy for help on a check swing after the catcher asks the plate ump.

Strikes and outs!

NCAA guidelines:

An umpire is urged to seek help when his view is blocked or positioning prevents him from seeing crucial elements of a play. An umpire is also encouraged to seek help in instances when he has any doubt and a partner has additional information that could lead to the proper ruling.

In the situations listed below, a partner who is 100% certain he has additional information unknown to the umpire making the call should approach unsolicited and alert the other umpire to such information. However, the ultimate decision to change a call rests with the calling umpire.
1) Deciding if a home run is fair or foul.
2) Deciding whether a batted ball left the playing field for a home run or ground rule double.
3) Cases where a foul tip is dropped or trapped by the catcher.
4) Cases where a foul fly ball is caught or not caught.
5) Cases when an umpire clearly errs in judgment because they did not see the ball dropped or juggled after making a tag or force.
6) Spectator interference plays.
7) Balks called by an umpire who clearly did not realize the pitcher’s foot was off the rubber.

Umpires are not to seek help on plays which they are 100% confident in their judgment and view of the play. Head coaches are not entitled to a second opinion when the calling umpire is certain his decision is correct. On the other hand, and contrary to past practice, umpires are not to “die with a call” in cases where a) the calling umpire is not 100% certain he is right; and b) another umpire has additional information which could lead to a proper ruling. Both NCAA philosophy and umpire integrity – consistent with NCAA rules – dictate that calls be reversed in this situation.

Judgment calls, which have traditionally not been subject to reversal include: steal and other tag plays (except if the ball is dropped without the umpire’s knowledge as discussed above); force plays (when the ball is not dropped and foot is not pulled); balls and strikes (other than check swings). This practice shall continue. Also, some calls cannot be reversed without creating larger problems. An example is a “catch/no catch” with multiple runners.

Dropped foul tips should be called by BU immediately without waiting to be asked, as should dropped or juggled balls on tag plays.

Edited: That is to say on dropped or juggled balls, the BU should alert the PU immediately to the fact that the ball is laying on the ground, and you a big dummy, Lamont.

BigUmp56 posted a similar set of guidelines from the MLBUM in the Over Rule thread.

-LilLeaguer

On a dropped third strike, the BU should do nothing and give help after the play is over.

On a dropped ball on tag plays no one should do anything until being asked or after the play is over. It is possible that the helping umpire did not see how the ball got on the ground and would be coming in too early to help when the call is appropriately made.

Peace

i believe i have read an "advanced mechanic" on here stating that if there is an uncaught third strike, and the batter attempts to check his swing, the BU should immediately give his call -- the one he would make if he would be appealed to -- rather than wait.

What about Catcher's INT (OBS)? If there's a question as to whether the bat hit the catcher's mitt, can the PU ask the BU for information on this?

I suppose he could ask for help, but I don't see why he ever would. More often than not the CI call is made on sound. The PU definetly will hear the bat contact the mitt while the BU may not.


Tim.

I have heard a similar mechanic as well, but I have never read or been taught that is the proper thing to do in this specific situation. That does not mean you could not do that, I just think you should not make a call in this situation without some the PU asking. I have been taught to give silent signals to indicate that we have the ball hitting the dirt or not (if the BU can see it), but those signals are not obvious to everyone and are there to allow the PU to make an "educated" call. I also think the catcher has to be smart enough to know the situation or the possible call and either tag the runner or throw/not throw the ball to first base.

Peace

I was referring to plays at the plate where the catcher clearly dropped the ball, and for whatever reason, the PU was the only person in attendance who did not see it. You are supposed to bring this to his attention, so he can correct his call which was obviously wrong. Close plays where the ball may or may not have come loose after the play was over are not included in this.

This, at least, gives me a starting point. Thanks, Just. Is this in the CCA Manual, on the website, where?

Strikes and outs!

That is why I feel you should discuss this kind of play with your partner to make sure you are not stepping on toes or making two different calls at the same time. I just do not like the BU making calls immediately when the PU likely has something different. I just think communication with your partner are key and make sure that both of you (or all of you) are on the same page.

Peace

Hey, Blue Lawyer:
 

"Strikes and outs!"

No matter what people say about you just keep ADVERTISING my column on the paid side of this site.

Regards,

Here's where it comes from. The NCAA softball Umpire's Manual is online which says the same thing but I haven't been able to locate an online baseball umpire's manual yet.

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/cham...nsToUmps05.pdf

To answer an early question in this thread: when coach asks you "why can't he get help?" after you've told him that it's your partner's call (or yours, or whatever), tell him: "Coach, that's the two umpire system, and I don't have time to explain it to you right now. If you would like to read the manual, I can give you a reference after the game."

He might whine that it's not in the rulebook (which was likely where the original question was going anyway). You can tell him that there's a lot more to both umpiring and coaching than just knowing the rules.

Hey Tim!
 

Is this a bad thing? Lord knows I, of all people, don't want to engage in copyright infringement!

I have been using "Strikes and outs!" as my sign off on my local association website for more than two years . . . This doesn't read like a cease and desist demand, but you never know.

Strikes and outs!:confused:

The last time I tried to explain mechanics to a coach during a game, I almost had to dump him, so I have given up on that. I now quietly take the "You weren't in the right position to make that call" crap as long as it is brief and not personally disrespectful, tell the coach thank you, and go on about my business.

The two-man (no sexism intended) system is limited, and we all know that. I am going to miss some things in the two man system, period. It is amazing what another pair of eyes on the field does to improve the quality of umpiring for everybody. Hopefully, if you follow the Nauert/PBUC model, two sets of eyes will rarely be in the same place, especially after the ball is hit.

Strikes and outs!

ohhh, you might be surprised :D

Oh, I couldn't agree more. That's one reason why I suggested that we NOT try to explain mechanics to coaches. They don't care, they don't get it, and it's not why they're coming out anyway. Those are generalizations, of course, not universal truths about coaches (though darn close...).

I do not completely agree with this statement. A lot of times coaches try to suggest "you can help him right." They need to know that it is not in the mechanic and you are not in a position to see what your partner saw (of course within limits). Sometimes the first thing a coach might say to you is about what you are watching and what your partner(s) are watching. I would not go into a detailed dissertation, but you can speak about what you saw and why you did not see something.

Peace

Rut:

Here is the last situation I had where I tried to explain mechanics in a game to a coach:

1 out, R1, R2. Batter hits a towering fly ball to left center. It's night and the park I'm working in doesn't have particularly good lights. F8 has to go chase the ball, and falls down in the process. I was at "C", and ran up to the edge of the dirt to get a look. It didn't help much. I saw F8 on his rear end, a white object on the ground next to him. He makes a scooping motion with his throwing hand and then the ball comes in. I rule "no catch."

Defensive coach calls time and comes out to ***** about the call. "What did you see?" I explain the above to him. "You didn't see the ball on the ground next to him, you saw his white shoe." (Begging, of course for me to ask-"What kind of dumba$$ buys his kids white shoes to wear in baseball?"- I digress. ) Then he tells me that I have to get out in the outfield to get closer to the call. "Coach, in the two man system, I never leave the infield grass from inside the diamond." "Well that's wrong, Steve. We pay you to make the right call; get out there and make it." A few more comments before I get to "That's all Coach. You've made your point; it's time to play."

Maybe you work with smarter/better coaches than I do. I have two or three, tops, who understand or want to understand umpire mechanics and why we are where we are when we are. In this Einstein's case, had I run to the outfield, like he wanted, I probably would have crashed into R2- which is the exact reason for the rule of not leaving the infield.

There is a law of diminishing returns in discussing/arguing with coaches. It is more art than science, and I do my best to answer reasonable questions reasonably. But I cannot see the benefit in saying to a coach that I know the two-man rotation/mechanic and I was where I was supposed to be on that play, especially when he's pissed off at me about the call he disagrees with. How do you handle it?

Strikes and outs!

I do not spend a lot of time worrying about whether a coach disagrees. They fact that they are now in your face is because they disagree. What you have to do is tell them what you saw and if they want you to do more than the mechanics, tell them what the deal is. I have told a coach if they want an umpire all the way in the outfield, hire a third and you will get that almost every time. Or they can have an umpire a least watching this kind of play all the way. He might not like it, but he is not going to see anyone doing what he wants. All you can do is be honest and straight forward with them and move on.

Peace

Concur
 

Thanks. I agree and have done my best to adhere to that philosophy.

Strikes and outs!