Devil Rays prospect throws bat at plate umpire
 

Associated Press

PAWTUCKET, R.I. -- Durham Bulls outfielder Delmon Young threw a bat into the chest of the home plate umpire after being called out on strikes in the first inning of Wednesday night's game at Pawtucket.

Young argued with the umpire after taking a third strike on a 1-and-2 pitch. The umpire ejected Young, who then threw his bat and hit the umpire in the chest.

Replacement umpires have been working all minor league games this season because the regular umpires are on strike. Bill Wanless, a spokesman for the Pawtucket Red Sox, said minor league teams are not releasing the names of umpires while the regulars are on strike.

Young, 20, is the younger brother of Detroit Tigers outfielder Dmitri Young. He was voted the Tampa Bay Devil Rays' minor league player of the year last season and the 2005 minor league player of the year by Baseball America.

The Devils Rays selected Young with the first overall pick in the 2003 amateur draft.

I wonder if Young would have done that if the regular umpires were calling the game...?

Should we place the over-under on how long he'll be suspended for at 50?

Edit: 300 posts....does that get me a pair of fishnets, or an autographed picture of the well-endowed squirrel? :D

i'll put $5,000 on the under.

the under hasnt been set though. im setting the under at 0 days, and ill take my $5,000.

i wasnt there and i dont profess to have knowledge of what went on in the previous games, but i would guess that he wouldnt do that if the regulars were in. hes probably frustrated with the calls that have been made thus far and couldnt take it. that doesnt negate what he did, and it might not even be true.

The downside to being a scab...
 

What it should be and what it will be are two very different things. That is outrageous! I won't speculate as to whether or not this would have happened with a real MiLB umpire, but think about this: The umpires will not be heard at all on this issue because they are scabs. At least an AMLU guy would have the union to back them in providing pressure on the league to deal out a more severe penalty and send a message.

As much as I want to see the professionals back on the field (it couldn't come fast enough for me), this guy is an umpire. I hope we do not use his physical abuse to further the cause. Throw the book at Young. He threw at bat at all of us.

don't gamble much, do ya?

nope, but i thought an under had to be set before you put your money down? it was also a bit of a joke since the o/u wouldnt be 0.

While I don't wish that to happen to any umpire, there is a small part of me that says "you wanted to work AAA baseball, welcome to PRO ball". I'll leave it at that

There is a problem
 

Did he spend the night in JAIL and how will other ballplayers feel with him around? I wouldn't put my money on YES or SAFE.

I wonder if the local DA is running for re-election any time soon.

I don't think I would hang this on the STRIKE issue. Young shouldn't be an AMLU poster boy. .

I agree!

I am just saying I think if this happened to an AMLU guy, the union would raise hell and make sure they threw the book at him. It is actually sad that no one will likely stand up for this scab umpire in this situation. (one of many reasons it doesn't pay to be a scab.)

Don't forget, Orlando Brown of the Cleveland Browns pushed a referee to the ground and got basically nothing for it.
I don't buy the idea he only did it because it was a replacement ump. Blue is blue. Otherwise what happens at Triple-A...does he get to throw a ball at a Triple-A umpire because he's not a major league umpire?
Once upon a time umpires (and basketball officials and football referees) were untouchable. Once upon a time Robbie Alomar is suspended for life for spitting on John Hershbeck.
Once upon a time.

i dont think he threw the bat at the umpire just because he was a replacement and he thought he could get away, i think he threw the bat because the replacement umpires havent been up to the high quality that he has seen before. he is probably frustrated that their calls have gone against him or have been inconsistent. he probably got rung up on a questionable pitch that has gone both ways all throughout the season so far and had enough.

im not saying hes right in what he did, but i had a feeling that players would be blowing up on these replacements sometime.

Peter Gammons on ESPN said Young has a history of these types of blowups and they spent ZERO seconds on the fact that this was a replacement umpire.

The AMLU doesn't want to hang their hats on this one. Oh, I see they blocked public access to their "Scab Gallery."

My "point" is that the official is deserving of respect by the player. John Hershbeck was not a scab, was he?
Jeff Triplette (the referee Brown pushed down) has been an NFL official since 1996. Is he a scab?
This is not the first time a player has abused an official. And it does not magically begin at the level of professional players. The respect of officials must begin at the first day of organized play, whether Little League, or Pop Warner, or travel hockey, or AAU basketball. Blue - or stripes - or whatever the heck soccer refs are wearing this year - must be hands-off.

I sincerely hope that Young is allowed to give his side of the story in the media. While I do not and never would condone his actions, I am fully expecting to find out that the umpire said something that got the bat thrown at him. I reiterate, I DO NOT AGREE with Young's actions, but bats don't get thrown at you for no reason.

The guy that worked the plate, while remaining anonymous to most of the world, is not anonymous to me. I know him, have worked with him, and saw first hand his "handling" of a situation. I have very little doubt that Young's actions, as awful as they were, were in reaction to this guy popping off. Does that make it OK? No. Did it shed a little light on the situation when I found out who worked the gane? You're damn right it did.

On that point I agree with you completely PWL. We agree far more than we disagree.

I just can't remember the last time I clocked a player with my mask when he popped off at me.:cool:

Maybe this opens the door. Next time a batter questions strike three, kick him in the nuts and tell him to go sit down.

Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind.:D

Sorry to disagree with you. He threw the bat at a scab who has disrespected our brothers in blue. I guess this shows that the gloves are coming off in dealing with the "replacements". These guys have been babied by Minor League Baseball since the strike began. If they were treated like the real umpires, they would not be there, the games would not be played, PBUC would have to deal with the umps, and the entire farce would be over. I don't wish an injury on anyone, but the scab was in the wrong place at the wrong time. What have they done to earn respect? Stab our fellow umpires in the back. Not much respect for that from either the players, or other umpires.

I don't care what the situation, but that would be the last time that player ever thought of throwing a bat at another umpire if he ever tried that with me. He'd be one sorry SOB.

I see you still think they wouldn't have found a way to play their games without these "scabs." That's pretty f-ing funny!

More importantly, is that even though I have no use for scabs, I do hope the PU in this game will file criminal charges against the player.

MTD, Sr.

...well, it was only a matter of time till someone put their plate-shoe in their mouth... here's more smooth, PR-savvy commentary, certain to increase sympathy for the AMLU :rolleyes:

I agree with all of those things. I do not respect this guy at all. However, I don't feel comfortable saying that it's okay to throw a bat at an umpire under some circumstances.

Yeah, that's real professional: to throw a bat at another person.

Getting sprayed with tobacco and mother f..cked during an argument from a manager is not real professional either but it happens on a PRO field. Nobody deserves to get a bat thrown on them or spit at, but guess what, in PRO ball, anything can happen. That's why there are professional umpires out there to handle situations like this. Perhaps the entire incident could have been prevented by a more experienced (professionally trained) umpire????

Perhaps the incident would have been prevented and maybe not. Do they teach you how to duck a bat thrown by an idiot in Pro school? Also Sal, I suggest if you are going to run your mouth about what happens on a pro field read the minor league tobacco rule and the fines for it.

Awwwww, we so appreciate your moment of humanity there.



I think I remember in school learning that you can not respect a person while still not wishing physical harm to them.

From the front page of amlu.org

I don't care who you are, what profession you're in or how the hell you feel about 'scab' umpires - no one deserves to be hit with a thrown bat by any player. Your view is just such an asinine way to look at it. Good one, PWL.

Delmon Young's Past
 

Look what happened last year with the regular umps. This guy is full of crap.

Double-A Montgomery's Delmon Young yesterday started serving a three-game suspension for bumping an umpire.
Young gave the ump a chest-bump after being ejected from Friday's game. The incident took place after he was called out on strikes for a third time. Source: St. Petersburg Times

You don't have a point! It's mob mentality like this that does serious damage to the unions image in this country. If you want to support the unions I respect that. I'm a strong union supporter myself, but this is not a non union -vs- union issue here any longer. This incident is about simple decency toward another persons right to be unaccosted while doing something they have a Constitutional right to do.


Tim.

I find it interesting that when the issue of the possible lack of training comes up people want to just dust that under the rug. We can have a post about why MLB Umpires do not do certain things as compared to what amateur umpires do, but we cannot in this situation possibly question the ability level of the umpire. We are also don’t want to discuss the possibility that the "gag order" might have helped the frustrations come to the surface. I just find it interesting that we can debate whether MLB Umpires still "got it" but we cannot discuss why certain umpires who have made a conscious decision to work games at the pro level why they likely were not properly trained to work pro games in the first place? We have umpires here that think they could step into a MLB game right now when they sit on their couch and watch the game on TV. When we entertain the ability of the "replacement" umpires than that cannot be discussed at all. God forbid that we treat this "replacements the same way we do the pro umpires.

Peace

After reading this article it is apparent the AMLU guys have trouble with him as well. I am shocked after all they are properly trained, professional umpires according to the "Crew" chief.


Tampa Bay Devil Rays top prospect Delmon Young is facing a potentially lengthy suspension after throwing his bat at an umpire's chest during Wednesday night's game at Pawtucket.
The Durham Bulls outfielder, listed No. 1 on most prospect lists, including MLB.com's, took a called third strike from Pawtucket's Jon Lester in the first inning of the International League contest. Following the strike call, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2003 draft refused to leave the batter's box, glaring back at the home plate umpire for an extended period of time, according to those who witnessed the game.

"He stood there, looking back for a long period of time, maybe 30 seconds," Pawtucket broadcaster Dan Hoard recalled. "It was borderline, but not ridiculous from the vantage point of the broadcasting booth. I've learned since, from the Pawtucket catcher (Corky Miller), that the umpire told him to go back and he wouldn't go."

Young finally took a step or two toward his dugout when the umpire ejected him from the game. The timing of the ejection made it seem like Young said something to the umpire as he began his retreat, but Hoard said Miller told him Young was silent at the time.

Young then took a couple of steps and threw the bat at the umpire. According to AP reports, Young flipped the bat underhand. It sailed end over end and hit the umpire in the chest.

"It wasn't with force, but I'd say that was his intent," Hoard said. "He went back to the dugout and disappeared. That was the end of his night and the end of his playing for some time."

No one from the International League was available for comment on the incident. According to policy, the umpire will file a report with president Randy Mobley on Thursday. Mobley, in turn, will read it, interview those involved in the incident and make the decision what kind of suspension should be handed down.

In addition, no one with the Devil Rays, including several players reached for comment, would comment until executives in the organization had a chance to review tape of the incident. Young, 20, gave an official "no comment" when reached in his hotel room after the game. "It's going to be interesting," Hoard said. "He's certainly looking at a lengthy suspension from the league. I'm not sure if the Rays will tack on anything.

"I've never seen anyone throw a bat at anybody. I've seen a lot of games and never seen that before."

This is not the first time Young has let his anger get the better of him. Last May, while playing in the Double-A Southern League for the Montgomery Biscuits, he drew a three-game suspension for bumping an umpire. He also was nearly ejected earlier in the season when, after being hit by a pitch, he flung his bat in the air and it landed about 20 feet from the pitcher.

Minor League Baseball games have been umpired by replacements for every game thus far in the 2006 season, with the regular crews currently out on strike.

I am so ashamed that while I read this post I am wanting to pursue a long term position in the ranks of Umpires!!!! Let me say to hear some of the political babble that goes on in the forum is normally tolerable but to hear some of you grown men, whine that we arent paid enough to call a GAME ( hmmm sounds quite similar to PRO Athletes ) and then when you walk away from the game and they get replacements you get mad and blame the replacements for your problems. Ya know when they tried this in the majors if I am not mistaken the MLB just fired your ***.... hmm maybe because of some of the opinions I have seen in this forum perhaps they should look into it here.

Do not get me wrong, I am all about equal pay and fair wages but..... what does striking do for you..... NOTHING..... striking has never solved anything.... you might get alittle better deal while still giving up thing you didnt want to give up. There are alot of guys who I have seen in here acting like complete children about this whole thing. Remember this is a game about children that men are just lucky enough to able to participate in as they get older and make a decent wage doing so.....

Now I have not heard all the info but apparently the pay increase that the AMLU is vying for look to be what $100 here and $5 there that is what I have managed to gather from reading in this forum. I mean you guys actually think that by you striking you will get the big business of baseball to stop and not continue their games... that business is bigger than the umpires and everything about umpires... and that is sad cause again it is a game and ya need the umpires to run the game but I do not think they care.

But I do feel in the articles I had read about wages I do find that they are not fair or compensatory in the least way for what job the umpires at the MiLB level do... but I do not think striking or you acting like a moron when another human takes a baseball bat to the chest and trying to find someway to justify it by saying he is a SCAB is at all mature!!! GROW UP

In closing I hope the Tampa player is suspended for the year put in anger management and re-evaulated next year prior to the season about reinstatement.

PanamaCitBrian

I understand I will be bashed for this but understand it is one man's opinions and observations.

Ah Panama, but are you sure about that? There were MLB Umpires that resigned and those guys were not rehired. The AMLU umpires have not resigned from anything. They are on strike and are waiting for negotiations to resolve the issue.

NOTHING? Are you sure about that again? I guess you need to ask the Baseball Player's Association and many labor unions that very same question. Not sure you have a working knowledge of the history of strikes and labor disputes if you think "nothing" good comes from any strikes.

All the issues on the table are not money related. Some of the issues are about safety and security of the umpires and their surroundings. I think you need to do a little more research as to what is actually being negotiated. Also you need to understand what a negotiation is. Both sides take a position and when a situation gets worse, both sides give in to something. Usually that is why both sides take a hard line and then they compromise on some issues.

Thank you for the "inflammatory" language. I thought no one on your side name called? :D

I am not at all bashing you at all. I just think you are not educated about labor disputes and the results of them. Of course this situation is somewhat unique because it is about sports and is not the same as air traffic controllers or pilots and drivers in many industries.

Peace

It seems to me that this young man did not include the fact that this umpire was a replacement umpire into his "thought" process when he was weighing his options. Do you honestly think that made a difference?

He would have thrown the bat at the umpire regardless. His history proves that he can't control his anger. We represent authority figures, and some participants in our game don't like being told what to do. Do you think that these types of individuals make a distinction between a reserve officer or regular police officer? All they see is "blue".

Bob P.

I wouldn't even wish a bat thrown at PWL during a game....but he can't extend that courtesy to others. I guess he checks the union card of each of his partners to see if he's going to have their back on the field that night or not.




PWL, why don't you just quit pussyfooting around and call for a good riot or two at the ole ballpark? :rolleyes:


You know you want to.....

I am sure his anger problem was a factor. The umpire's background probably was a factor. The game situation was also a factor. The training of the umpire was a factor. I do not know why there has to be one explanation for everything. I am sure all these things played a factor in the incident. Who knows, maybe the umpire said something to him that he was not used to and over-reacted to the situation. Who knows none of us where there. I just think there are a lot of reasons for why things happen.

Peace

So, let me get this straight.....you don't think defending this hoodlum, out of control athlete is moronic? How is that "inflammatory?" What it is is truth.

I do not think anyone was defending the athlete. I think people feel there are many reasons for why things happen. This situation did not just happen in a vacuum and nothing else was at play. For all you know the frustration of the players dealing with umpires that are not used to this kind of ball. If I see varsity players and coaches get upset with umpires you think this is not going to apply in the pros?

Also lighten up Steve, part of my comments were a joke. You did exactly what I expected you to do. You responded to a post that I knew would get a response.

Peace

Guess what Sal? All of that happens in ADULT BASEBALL too. Tobacco sprayed, MFd, bumped, etc. I've experienced it all. I don't think any amount of extra training is going to prepare an umpire to have a bat chucked at them by a punk-*** rat ba$tard ballplayer. I sincerely doubt that this idiot's actions could have been prevented simply by having a pro umpire there.

sal -

how much professional baseball did you work?

I agree with steve, he would make a mistake by throwing a bat at me, because now I'd have a bat!

but seriously, scab or not, under trained or not, bad call or not, there is NO excuse for what Young did.

I hope they hang him out to dry,

Joe

Well, looks like the D-Rays have suspended him already.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/p...t=.jsp&c_id=tb

Both Player and Umpire Do not belong in the game...
 

Young was totally out-of-line. Any suspension is too light of penalty.

At the same time, I have NO sympathy for the SCAB umpire! The umpire should be repremanded for becoming a replacement umpire.

Your union workers were given a contract which they didn't like so they didn't show up for work. You call it a strike, I say they quit because they don't have a contract. The semantics don't matter because the result is the same, they had a job and didn't show up for work.

The union doesn't give a crap about anyone but themselves. You want to strike/quit for better pay, fine. But everyone else has a right to earn as much money as they can to pay their bills, and feed and cloth their families. Who are you or anyone in the union to tell anyone where they can or can't work. If the work is available, it is because the union members aren't there to do the job.

Baseball wasn't going to stop being played because the union didn't show up for work. You want other umpires to support your cause but if baseball wasn't being played, what about all the other people you would be screwing out of a days pay. The ticket takers, concession stand workers, grounds crew and everyone else associated with the game would be out of work if the games didn't go on. What about them? Would you care that those people who likely live paycheck to paycheck couldn't make rent or buy food. What about their spouses and children? Do you care about them?

The answer is a big fat NO! If AMLU cared about any of them, their asses would be on the field making the calls. Don't give me rhetoric, show me by your actions. Talk means nothing when people aren't getting paid.

You call the replacement umpires scabs. I say they are filling a need that AMLU left open so everyone associated with minor league baseball can keep their job and get paid.

AMLU has a right to strike and try and get better pay and wages. AMLU has a right to work and make a living but so does everyone else. For the union to expect other workers, their families and children to suffer so you the union can make more money is just plain wrong. Get over yourselves!

KALIIX, you said what i couldnt say earlier, i am just not as good with saying how i am feeling about a subject i couldnt agree more.... Unions just dont think about anything but themselves. Thank you for saying it so well

hmmm well i can tell you what i do and since i agree with him i guess you think the same about me!!! well i drive big rigs for a reasonable sized company maybe you have heard of it Pepsico, more employess than Milb combined including all entitees and all though there are some unions within the franchise partners of the company.... for the most part we are not unionized i get a 2-4% pay increase every year.... i make in the top 5 % of my job nationwide and have good benefits, yet you with a union have to strike and i can get this without all the drama, i also have job security but that why you need a union to talk for you instead of doing it yourself. ya know again just my two cents bash away

My various thoughts:

1) I see in this thread a post from 9:00 a.m. this morning attributed to Chris Hubler. Chris and I started our pro careers in the same PBUC class and were in extended spring training together. This is not a quote I would expect him to make. So, I went to the AMLU website this afternoon and could not find this quote. I allow for the possibility that he did say this, and I just can't find the quote. Could you please post a link to the quote? (I'm not accusing a poster of making up a quote, I just want to see it on amlu.org, before I believe it. Or if they have taken it down on that website, can anyone else here say that they saw it on amlu.org earlier today?)

2) Strike vs. quit is not a matter of semantics, not in any legal sense. If you think its semantics ask Eric Gregg. That statement is way, way off-base. A person on strike has certain legal protections ("rights") etc. A person who quits, generally does not. Go do an internet search about the 1999 MLB umpire fiasco and you'll find a good Federal Court of Appeals opinion that will show you the difference between a person on strike and a person who quits.

3) There are a lot of posters on many different boards who keep making the assertion that these MiLB umpires are going down the same road as the MLB umpires in 1999...and that it is all going to blow up in the face of the MiLB umpires.

First, as I alluded to above, this is a completely different situation. MiLB has the legal right to strike. MLB umpires had contracted away their right to strike during the summer of 1999 and tried to get around it by "quitting".

But ask yourself why did the MLB umpires attempt this tactic when any lawyer (even a non-labor relations lawyer) could have seen that it was a seriously flawed tactic? The Answer: Because the MLB Umpires Union had beaten MLB around at the bargaining table for the previous 20 years. Richie Phillips had so many successes going up against MLB that his ego got so big (IMHO) that he thought he could never loose. He was wrong.

So, many posters are quick to remember the failure of the union in 1999...but very few have brought up ALL THE SUCCESSFUL STRIKES THEY HAD starting in 1979.

I mean, damn gentlemen, MLB umpires went from making less than $30,000 in 1978 with no vacation time and able to be fired at any time for any or no reason, to being paid more than a quarter of a million dollars (veterans), with tenure, with guaranteed playoff games after being in MLB for a certain number of years, and with in-season vacation.

I'd call that 20 years of pretty damn successful labor negotiations...including successful strikes. Yes, Richie blew it in 1999....but he was pretty damn good for 20 years.

So, ask yourself is this MiLB strike more like 1999 or 1979. Oh, back in 1979 they had to stay on strike for 8 weeks. And, yes, MLB issued edicts to the players and managers to "have patience". And, yes, umps had to picket at stadiums. And, yes, umps had to try to generate media interest when the media didn't care.

But after eight weeks, their strike was successful. The media starting paying attention. The media agreed that they were woefully underpaid. The media agreed that six-months without any vacation was a joke. And yes, the players and managers starting complaining about the replacements.

It was a slow process, but the umps eventually won. They got pay raises. They got vacation. The only thing they consented on was allowing some of the replacements to become permanent members of the staff...most of whom, except three (or so), were fired in 1981.

Today, the vast majority of media editorials have been pro-AMLU. (For example read the New York Times article from a day or two ago.) Slowly but surely, more and more complaints from players and managers are creeping into the media.

I say the historical evidence points that this strike is more like 1979 and not like 1999. It will take time, but eventually AMLU will be back on the field with some hard-earned consessions gained at the bargainning table.

That is just my opinion. Time, of course, could prove me wrong.

The quote was on the AMLU website this morning, at the top above the first picture. Guess they figured out how stupid this quote sounded and removed it.

PWL,

How did you get to become so bitter? You never seem to have a nice thing to say about anything in life. Just asking.

This is such BS, its hard to know where to begin. What if we all decided that we didn't like you and felt you disrespected us? I'm not talking about strike issues, it just came to our joint conclusion that you didn't deserve respect so when you got assaulted, we didn't care. Even if our reasons were irrational, tell me exactly how you would feel in that situation.

You pro-union guys need to get it through your thick head that many (if not most) of us don't agree with hard line union tactics. We don't view replacement umpires as crossing a picket line, only doing the job that you decided you won't do. We think the word scab is used by you as a defamatory term. If you feel your reasons are justified, fine. But just because you don't like what someone did doesn't mean what they did was objectively wrong. Here's a clue: some people have differences of opinion and to assert that anyone deserves an assault simply (or one should be ignored) because YOU have a problem with how they got their assignment is reprehensible.

If you truly feel this way, you don't and won't ever have my respect as an official. If you have so much hatred that you can't put a difference of opinion aside for an issue that affects all officials, then I seriously question your ability to be on any field.

What I do for a living is of no consequence. Currently I belong to a union and I was also a Teamster for three years. I am just not a blind union supporter like some people are. For all the good things that unions do, there are also many downsides to belonging to a union, some of which I personally have had to deal with.

In any event, I noticed that you had nothing to say about the substance of my post? I wonder why??? Things that make you go hummmm.....

I can't believe this is even an issue, and, in all honesty it makes me sick that some of you are actually of the opinion that this umpire deserved to have a bat thrown at him merely because he is a replacement umpire. That's bull. Regardless of what your stance is on the MiLB issue, he's a fellow OFFICIAL, not just a blue, that got assaulted. Just because he chose to umpire a AAA game in the place of a striking umpire should have no consequence to any of us. As it was said in an earlier thread, someone has to umpire the game and someone will umpire the games. Just because they choose to do so, whether or not that decision is the popular, politically correct, or ethical one, does not give Young the privilege of throwing his bat at a replacement umpire, nor does it mean that a replacement umpire deserves to be assaulted in such a manner.

Am I saying that this situation could have been avoided if regular AAA umpires were working the game? That's possible. But it still does not give Young the right to throw the bat or for any of us to condone the action because of anyone's status as a scab. Just my .02.

LawUmp:

In response to your earlier question, Baseball America is now quoting Hubler saying what the 9:00 AM poster said he did.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...ws/261152.html

Wow
 

Another Baseball America article said Young threw a bat last year and it landed 20 feet from an ump. That game and the bumping game I assume were being done by union guys, so I don't understand the stupid quote. I don't know this Triple-A umpire and he may be great, but the way they are celebrating a fellow umpire getting hit with a bat is just wrong.

I've enjoyed this thread, as much for the nostaligia as the drama. Lest I be cast as the protagonist, I'm quoting this piece but could have used others.

What difference does it make if the umpire said something to him? If the replacement umpire had said, "Sit down, you dumb (insert the racial epithet of your choice) - that was strike three." It doesn't permit this pinhead's actions.

Bruce Froemming wouldn't explain an eight inning balk against a Cub's pitcher the other day. When the pitcher inquired what he had done to cause the balk, Froemming (36 years) told him to "get back on the f***ing mound". Three players heard him say it and yet, the pitcher didn't launch the ball at Bruce's chest.

Don't excuse the actions of an idiot athlete with those of a replacement umpire. SInce the umpire's name has not been released, we do not know his resume. Would the player's actions be more defensible if he was a LL umpire of a former Minor League umpire called back to work? Once you step on the field wearing the uniform, you are afforded respect while being marked a target. It is a shame that Dmitri's little brother can't control himself and needs to throw things when he doesn't get his way.

BTW, the league said he is suspended indefinetly. The fact that he is a golden child will probably shift the penalty his way. Remember, the union complained of horse**** penalties and abuse when they were out there. Balls were thrown, bats flung and umpires pushed - all when the 'real' umpires were in charge. This dimwit didn't care who was out there and his agent will spin it that way.

Video!!!!!
 

after seing this video, I would vote to lifetime ban his a$$. I had no idea it was this bad. can any of the pro-union people on this board honestly say that this guy got what he deserved? He got hit in the chest with a bat, that was thrown at him from over 20 feet away. If this happend on the street, young would be facing criminal charges.

lifetime ban, 1 strike and you're out

Joe

I do not think anyone has said that a player does not deserve to be suspended. The fact that this incident happen to an umpire and the fact the reality this umpire might not have been properly trained in are two separate issues.

I also do not agree with a lifetime ban. I can see this player being suspended the entire season but that is not going to happen either. I think anywhere from 30-50 would not upset me. This is also not my decision.

Peace

My God. I hadn't seen the video until now and thought it was just a little flick of the bat. If that had hit him in the face, it could've knocked him out.

I mean, this quote from the article:

I'd hate to see it if it WAS violent and it DID mean to hit him.

Oh, and this:

So either the AMLU guy is an idiot or Latter isn't "professionally trained" cause goodness knows that a "professionally trained" umpire would've handled this situation differently. Maybe the AMLU guy's just a professionally trained idiot.

And to me, it looked like a routine, everyday ejection.

Just Say No!
 

What??? Did you actually think before you wrote that second sentence?

It hurt my head so much that I asked the four year old down the street to translate it. He says that you are implying that this umpire may not have been adequately trained how to prepare himself for being hit by a thrown bat. Is that what you meant? No, his younger sister said that you may have meant that he wasn't properly trained to officiate that game, although the video clearly shows he handled it exactly as the 'real' guys would have. Did you mean that?

You couldn't possibly have thought that he wasn't capable of working that level of ball since D1 umpires and ex-Minor Leaguers have been working that park since the season began. Watch more than the fifteen second clip and you'll see a pro at work.

By the way, the Baseball America article points out the lunacy of the AMLU justifying their cause through this incident. "If a replacement umpire hadn't been there, this wouldn't have happened." Right...

Read Young's apology on ESPN.com and you'll see that he knows (has been told!) that his actions were reckless. His history of acting like a horse's *** make him the perfect poster child for the AMLU - only not the way they would prefer. I guess that naming the umpire to the AP and saying that he probably brought it on himself are their way of supporting their brother umpires. Chalk this up as another blown call by the union and that pinhead IL crew chief (I won't name him).

Why isn't anybody talking about criminal charges? In Massachusetts, it would be considered assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, a felony!

Here's better quality video that shows the actual pitch. The announcer suggests that Young may have thought the pitch was high, but I suppose that he thought it was outside. It couldn't have been a real bad pitch; in fact he may have been called out on his checked swing. To my eye, things look fairly calm until Young appears to be saying something to the umpire as he walks toward the first base dugout, and the ejection follows emphatically. I'm hard pressed to see anything obviously wrong with the umpire's call or handling of the situation.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/index.jsp

Now that we have the entire clip I can just see that some people on here are going to say how the pitch was outside, that only a scab umpire would have blown a call like that, and therefore deserved what he got....please people prove me wrong :rolleyes:

"Get upset" ? Frustration comes with nearly every occupation,
certainly not just sports. The issue to me is how you handle the
stresses and frustrations. I damn sure can't throw something at
someone during the course of my workday. It's a little thing called
"self-control".
I don't give a rip if he was called out on three straight in the
freakin' dirt, there is no excuse to throw a bat at anyone. Obviously,
some here believe that it's ok, as long as they have a low opinion
of the victim. It's kinda like bigots: "Oh, it's ok, it's only (insert any
ethnic group here).

very well put, I agree completly

Joe

The pitch looked a bit outside, but I've seen a lot worse called a strike, especially when certain Atlanta pitchers used to pitch.

Young definitely said something to get tossed. Up until then the umpire had shown great patience with the surly rat just standing there. I think the umpire handled it every bit as good as any pro umpire would have.

I hope this guy gets the maximum allowable suspension for this unexcusable act. It was far from just a "toss," he winged it pretty hard. Ought to be in jail right now.

Please let us not compare sports to other occupations. No one goes around yelling at authority figures because a situation does not go their way in real life. Also sports is about the only place where it is acceptable for people to yell at anyone and call them all kinds of names or heckle them because they are with another company (team) or by customers (fans). Also no one said it was acceptable to throw a bat at someone.

Peace

Chris, in his haste to make the replacement look responsible must have forgotten that this "fine, young prospect", tossed a bat at a pitcher and bumped and umpire in games officiated by MiLB umpires just last year. Chris' memory is certainly convenient at best.

"In Double-A ball last year, Young was suspended for three games by the Southern League for bumping the chest of plate umpire Jeff Latter."

Maybe Jeff could refresh Chris' memory.

I fully support the MiLB umpires' goals and demands, but I am disappointed in their rush to use the actions of this a-hole as something caused by a replacement umpire. I don't know who is advising their PR staff, but whoever it is should be fired. The AMLU should be leading by example.

Exactly!
 

ESPN on Baseball Tonight was covering the escapades of Young the last few years and its not a pretty site.

The Devil Rays now say they are going to get some counsel for his "anger management problem".

Trying to cover up a "bad apple" who has lots of talent but no values.

Thanks
DAvid

I'm glad to see that the rational amongst this board understand that this player's behavior is never warranted! As I wrote earlier, it doesn't matter what the umpire did or did not say/do. This clown threw a bat at the umpire and he will be punished acordingly. In my eyes, it won't be severe enough, but that is an issue for another thread.



I guess that Jeff doesn't have a relative who is in law enforcement.

Why would I want a relative to cover up for fellow workers when they shoot innocent people in the back. Oh I forgot, he had a gun. :(

Peace

I guess Jeff doesn't have a relative in law enforcement.

Like any seasoned umpire, authority figures with badges have seen their share of abuse. I shouldn't have to explain that law enforcement officers get taunted, touched and ridiculed daily. They are taught to use discretion and ignore taunts and unacceptable behavior. Turn on the television and you will see rapid response units being pelted with stones, urine, feces and other unmentionables. They absorb all types of insults. While you may not believe it, sworn law enforcers actually have less rights than you and I.

For what it's worth, I can't recall the last time a Naperville police officer shot someone in the back, so drop the boy from the hood routine. You find ways to hijack every thread. Congratulations on proving your teachers wrong.

Hey real good PWL, way to make a logical argument. Instead of actually trying to discuss the points made, you conveniently just say that there's "no substance" to them and "leave it at that". Translated, that means, I have no way to counter what you say so I'll just dismiss the points as having no merit so I don't have attempt to justify and discuss my position. Nice!

Whether or not some, any or all of the jobs at the ballpark are part-time, seasonal or otherwise doesn't matter. The point is that alot of those people rely on that income and just don't do it for fun. Your and the AMLU's lack of caring about those people goes directly to my point. The union philosophy is that you don't care how anyone else will suffer, as long as we get what we want. And oh by the way, you should support us when what we do causes you to lose money and have a hard time trying to provide the necessities of life for you and your family. Yeah, right...

I loved you argument about the grounds keepers getting mad and quitting that management would have a big stack of applications to choose from. I sounds familiar, kinda like how the AMLU got mad and didn't show up for work and management had a enough workers to choose from to keep the games going. You can't have it both ways buddy. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Unless the gander is unionized, of course, then it's all right....:confused:

Keep drinking the union Kool-Aid...

Nice. Lovely painting with a broad brush.........

Tell this to the Chicago Police Department that had an entire unit falsely accuse people of crimes, beat suspects (many where innocent) and intimidate suspects into confessions. The Governor at the time had to commute death penalty sentences or give pardons because this unit put so many poor individuals in prison for crimes they did not commit.

Then yesterday a young man is shot in the face by police and he had no clothes on or gun on him in after the police were called to his house.

If you do not want to be brushed or stereotyped, stop stereotyping others based on what they look like and what community they live in.

Peace

Thanks guys...I only took one Public Relations course in my life...so I'm no expert...but I think that is just a dumb thing to say.

Trying not to be too political, but....
 

WWTB,

I agree with everything you said about law enforcement officers...and having relatives who are law enforcement officers...I have great respect for them.

However, as a lawyer who works in the area of constitutional law, I have to disagree with the portion of your post that I quoted above.

As citizens, law enforcement officers have the same constitutional rights as any other non-law enforcement officer.

Now, if you are suggesting that, as agents of the state (or municipality or federal government), they are specifically prohibited, under the Constitution, from violating certain explicit and implicit Constitutional rights of other citizens, (while at the same time truly private individuals are not so prohibited), then you are correct.

However, limiting the power of the state (and its agents), in my opinion, fosters individual liberty. And that's a good thing.

Naperville? Who said anything about Naperville? I guess your teacher did not show you any other place on a map or you have never been outside of Illinois your entire life. One of the examples I gave took place in Glen Ellyn yesterday. I would not consider Glen Ellyn a poor community or a racially diverse area. I guess you have to be from the “hood” to be shot in the back. Or in the Glen Ellyn case, shot in the face will do.

One of my parents was a Lab Technician in a major city and metropolitan area and worked in the coroner's office and would do autopsies in many death cases in that area (ever watch CSI). It was an epidemic of police officers shooting people in the back (they happen to be of certain races). It was always funny how you would watch the news and turn to my parent and you would hear the real story.

Peace

Thrown bat...
 

Most posters know my position on the strike (as a former MiLB ump...I'm decidedly pro-AMLU)

However,

(1) it appears to me that this "replacement" handled this situation well. Assuming he didn't say anything unprofessional to bait him (which I doubt he did) I say he handled it very well. In fact, he kept his composure a lot better than I would have. Seriously, I would have had to have been restrained by my partner(s)...which I admit would not have been the right thing to do.

(2) this is an assualt and if it happened to me I'd get the cops involved...maybe even file a civil suit, although the damages suffered appear to be minimal. But such a suit may make future players think twice.

(3) I respect Mr. Hubler, although I haven't talked to him since I left "the game" many moons ago...but I think from a PR point of view, that was a dumb statement to make.

(4) Mr. Young deserves a long, long suspension.

My two (or four) cents.

I haven't said much about the strike and I will stay out of that debate, but this freaking guy needs to and is being dealt with. As an umpire I was trained to not care, think twice, or offer my opinion of what the fine/suspension should be so I don't care about the details. I just hope, as an umpire, that they are so sever that no one ever does something like that again, at any level. I can just see some high school/juco/adult ball/summer ball/DI/DII/DIII kid doing that **** if this guy seems like he gets off in the end.

PWL,
What in the hell are you rambling on about? You aren't even making sense at this point and you certainly aren't going to try and discuss any points that I brought up.

You have your opinions about unions to the point of being brainwashed it seems. In any event, you are obviously not going to try and discuss any points made that might be counter to union philosophy.

Believe what ever makes you feel better.... (shaking head)

What a load of dookey. You are so brainwashed by the Union Cult that you are siding with a socioapath over the umpire.

Ahhhh, nothing like cop-hating to increase your credibility with normal people-We all respect cop-haters.

I don't care who you are (soon to be a star- Young)or what you are doing (replacement ump) but no human being should do this to another.

http://youtube.com/watch_fullscreen?...0ump%204/26/06

Well, maybe the next guy will just forget about the toss and just turn and crack em across the face with the bat. :(

And hopefully his wife and kids will be at the game to see it live, that'll really teach those scabs.

Some of you union guys are unbelievable. As soon as I saw the headline for this story I thought the first thing that would happen is that the guys on strike would blame it on the umpire, saying he caused it or wasn't trained enough or didn't have enough experience. If you really think that young wouldn't have THROWN his bat at a so-called "real umpire" then I really need to have some of what you guys are smoking.

According to Peter Gammons, BJ Upton, "the runner who held at first", lit into Young after the game in the clubhouse. Upton is the son of an ACC basketball official and I'm sure the vision of a sports official being assaulted by a flying object really shook him.

All you did was show that the union cares about the union by only going with union shops. You proved my point! They don't care about anyone but themselves, the union.

You still haven't answered how you or the union have any right to tell anyone where or how they should work? Why the heck should anyone support your union when you would have nothing to do with anyone who is non-union? (you proved that point yourself with the we only try to use union work when we can AFL-CIO tangent)

You have no way of knowing what would have happened if they couldn't find enough umpires. Even if they shut down some or all of the games, those people are now out of work because of the union! Maybe a labor agreement is reached quickly and maybe it takes weeks or months. So how exactly do you care about them not getting paid when all that works itself out?

If unions have a right to work/strike/negotiate then so does everyone else. Yet you want to usurp the right of any worker who is not a "union" member to earn a paycheck doing whatever job he can doget in what still is a free country. Explain how your degradation of the replacement umpires by calling them scabs works then? They don't have the right to work if you won't?

For the record, I am not totally against unions either. Unions have their place and I have benefited from them being in the work place.

Oh, I beg to differ JRut...I've yelled at a few security guards, even cussed one out last week. I've also raised my voice to a few of my bosses in my days in the military. I've also shown my displeasure with restaurant and store managers.

I believe the Wheaton Warbler mentioned being shot in the back in his initial post. He loves to twist the facts to justify his errors.

I alluded to Naperville, since it is the largest city in your area. While any police shooting is cause for alarm (good guy or bad), you made it seem like some police are rogue vigilantes. This on the heels of your statement that in real life, people don't argue, cuss and act like Young did. Which way is it? Check the wind and let me know which way you will think.

Young acted like a spoiled punk. His act was not one of negligence, it was of intimidation. He didn't care if the umpire was part of the union or not and his history proves that. He is a coward who would be fined up the *** if he was in the Show.

Speaking of cowards, the AMLU decision to say that this umpire won't be represented in this case are proving that they are clueless and contemptible. The league has multiple videos of the incident and he is a high profile player. It will administer the punishment according to league policy (even though they have never had a case of a bat being thrown in this manner). If the DA chooses to get involved, the umpire will be represented by the county. Young should be more concerned about a civil lawsuit, since this official has not waived his rights to compensation.

Au contrare, I don't think it was stupid for them to go on strike. I don't mind that they struck to improve their pay/benefits. I think they could have been smarter about it but who's to say I know when a better time would be. I hope they get more pay and better benefits when all is said and done.

My point all along was that the union is only out for themselves and don't care about anyone else's right to work. Strike if you want, particularly if you think it will be effective and improve your bargaining position. Just don't expect that others, who you would care nothing about otherwise, to not take the jobs you aren't going to do to put money in their pocket. You have no right to tell anyone not involved in your union when or where they can work and you shouldn't degrade them just because they see a job opportunity differently then you do.

And I'll never wear Nike shoes. ;)

Ahhhh another post from the guy that thinks anything said on a website is tragic. One of these days you will realize that anyone looking for credibility here must not have a lot with the people they see every day. ;)

Peace

The fact that you are a cop hater makes your usual inane blather that much more impossible to stomach.

Why would something tragic or stupid said on a web-site be any less tragic when said in person? They still express the same opinion. The only difference is you can't hide behind a verbal comment like you can hide behind one that's been made in the form of a post.


Tim.

If you consider what I said as being a "cop hater" (your words not mine) then you either do not ever watch the news or read anything about police behavior by people that have been directly affected by police interactions. It is also clear you do not talk to people off the internet, outside of your community or talk to people that do not look like you regardless of if they are middle class, poor or come from privileged backgrounds. If you did talk to people I just mentioned, you might find that a lot of people are not supportive of every action by police officers or police administration.

I almost forgot you are the same person that thought a common term used in union disputes was offensive. Why should I be surprised by what you are outraged by now? ;)

Peace

Venturing forth on this one, here are my random thoughts:

Throwing the bat & hitting the umpire was inexcusable, contemptible, unforgivable, (insert negative adverb/adverbs of choice here). Based solely on what I’ve read in this thread, the player has what I’d describe as a significant history of this behavior. I believe those involved in determining the disciplinary action should throw not just the book, but the entire law library aw him, although I know that won’t realistically happen.

After reading the posting that mentioned Mass. assault law (I believe it’s on the second or third page), I wonder what the manager’s reaction would have been if he’d been told his player would be leaving the stadium in a police cruiser instead of the team bus? :eek:

The umpire is in need of some good advocacy in this situation, which would otherwise be provided by the umpire’s union. However, the umpire involved was involved because he was working as a replacement during a strike by union umpires. Can’t help but find the dichotomy interesting. Also, I think the union could probably lend some measure of support to the guy without compromising their position or looking weak.

Before continuing, please press and hold the “Suspension of Disbelief” button.

If no umpires had crossed the picket line, I don’t think the incident would have happened because I don’t think the games would have gone on. If coaches or managers had been put behind the plate for the games (and therefore struck by the thrown bat in this game), there would have been a bench-clearing brawl for the record books or some serious “wall-to-wall counseling” in the locker room afterward.

Okay, now back to reality. I think the resolution on this issue is going to swing to one extreme or another. Either that the player will get off lightly on this one and go on to a big-money, big-league career or he’ll be labeled as a cancer to any team who signs him and end up ignored by the majors.

Just my opinion, thanks for the chance to say my bit.