Bad Form, MiLB umpires should have more Class
 

It is sad to admit that you are an alum of the AMLU when you hear about and see some of the things that the guys are doing now.

I guess I understand the photo gallery thing, but they could keep it to themselves.

What I don't agree with and feel is in very poor taste is the list they have put together with phone numbers and such and the calls to people's homes at all hours and the things that have been said to young children and wives that came directly from AMLU guys. Most people have caller id and your number shows up too and you can be traced by them! OK, so the SCABS as you would call them have crossed the line, that doesn't mean that you have to; or are you just as bad as them? Are you making it OK for them to cross?

Second is the practice of walking up to the drunk folks and instructing them to yell at the umpires on the field. Be better than that and if you can't be man enough to yell yourself.

The actions of some will hurt the future for all, and will be used aginst you by the leagues. It is chicken **** and it needs to stop. If you have a problem with a guy, call him and talk to him, if you have to yell at him during a game do it wearing your jacket yourself.

I am not defending anyone that crosses, but those of you that partake in these actions are just as bad as the SCABS!

Anyone agree or disagree?

I agree. Somebody is going to umpire the games. Get over it. Name calling and threats are not the solution. Calling their homes is harassment, and can be prosecuted.

I was 100% behind the AMLU when they first spoke of striking, but after reading their posts, and seeing the comments with some of the photos, I feel they are going about this in the wrong way.

The games were never going to just stop when they went on strike. What did they really expect, that they weren't going to be replaced? They need to back off and see what happens, just wait and see how much more the leagues can take of inferior umpiring.

I personally haven't heard of such things (can you site a credible source for such accusations?); if they are happening, it is against specific instructions given by AMLU leadership. Understand that in any situation where you have 220+ young men, somebody is going to act stupid. Not an excuse, just the way it is. While I am not an AMLU member, trust me when I say that the leadership and the other members of the AMLU will not stand for such nonsense. My guess is that a good portion of anything "outside the lines" going on may be being done by supporters but not members(AMLU guys have alot to loose here and know it.).

You're right, of course, that "boys will be boys" -- when they're not disciplined and told the consequences of their acts (and sometimes even then). This tells me that the leadership doesn't understand the PR dimension of the strike. With little leverage against management, they could have used public opinion to move the owners. Oh well, maybe next time, if there is one.

Did HE GO?
 

I use to respect the umps back in my playing days.
Then I became a fan and would give them hell half the time.
Once I became an ump, I would just sit in the stands and watch them perform.

I can't imagine ONE umpire yelling at another umpire and calling himself a PROFESSIONAL.

I believe the quote is, "Never criticize another umpire. To do so is ungentlemenly and dispicable." That being said, this goes far beyond what I consider umpire on umpire crime. These young men who have taken a stand for themselves are no doubt embroiled in what is possibly the most passionate political situation that they've ever faced. Because of this emotions are bound to run extremely high. This is their lively hood that's being threatened. I'm not trying to be an apologist for some of this behavior, but I can certainly understand where it's coming from. I wonder, if faced with a similar situation in your job, would you lash out as well?


Tim.

No, because if I walked out on my job, I would be fired. Someone would immediately be hired to take my place. That is how business works. You take a job for what amount of salary or wage is offered, and you honor that amount. If you ask for a raise and don't get it, you don't quit working and start walking around the building with signs. If you were not happy with the salary originally offered, you should not have taken the job.

You hit it
 

Emotions is the key to this whole dynamic.

I think everyone who reads this board sympathizes with the MiLB guys. Our hearts go out to them for trying to improve the lives of those who come afterward. Now THEY must get together and put their HEADS on tight.

Many others have written very lengthy threads about understanding the REALITY of the entire situation. People who are much older and wiser have voiced their opinions about the state of affairs between PBUC and AMLU.

Does AMLU think they have a right to STOP the game? I can easily believe that each minor league team has several bull-pen catchers with NO shot at making it up a level. If your place is in management and the GAME MUST GO ON, do you not ask them to call balls and strikes? Management can easily fill the 230 SPOTS with ex-D1 pitchers and catchers. They may not know the rules, but they can call ball/strike or safe/out. I'm sure there would be a long line of other candidates, as well. I am sure they would ALL love the opportunity to eject a COACH from a ballgame.

I suggest the AMLU members start breaking their game plan down. I hope they are not looking for any late inning MAGIC. It looks like they will have to manufacture more than a single run to win this GAME. They are up against one hell of an organiztion.

Best wishes,

Never YELL at UMP
 

I'm sure most of it is meant to be constructive criticism. :rolleyes:

Just don't get near UMP and yell, that means you LOST IT. :eek:

Steve, as a former MiLB crew chief, I was curious if you were aware that the AMLU did not walk out on their jobs...and I'm not saying that to start an argument, by any means, but just to say that they are a federally recognized collective bargaining agent by the NLRB, i.e., union. When a contract ends and the union and management could not agree on terms, they are allowed to strike until they come up with a new agreement. I only ask this since I had a friend who crossed the AMLU picket line, who happened to be a member of the UAW. When they found out he crossed, well, let's put it this way, they haven't been as kind as I have in this post to him.

I agree, minor league umpires on strike should do informational picketing, and have no need to shout obscenities at the replacement umpires. There is no need to lower themselves when they need to take the high road in this.

Thanks for listening.

Thatballzlow

We did not walk out of our jobs. We don't have a contract.

Clint Lawson
Carolina League
[email protected]

Let’s look back in history to the beginning of unions and the purpose they served. They provided a means for workers to unite within certain industries in order to gain fair wages, better working conditions and benefits (like retirement & insurance). This happened in many industries some of which members of this forum have benefited as a result of. Maybe the unions didn’t directly impact your industry but indirectly gains made by unions filtered throughout businesses in the US.

Here’s my ruling:

1. MiLB umpires have a right to strike in an attempt to gain fair wages, better working conditions and benefits.
2. Team owners have the right to hire replacement umpires in order to stay in business and to meet their obligations. They also have the right to fire the striking umpires.
3. Replacement umpires have the right to work A-AAA games if offered, without fear of harm; this is still the United States of America.
4. The striking umpires have the right to carry signs and protest the owners and replacement umpires; again this is still the United States of America.
5. Striking umpires have the right to work college, high school or any other level games, one more time; this is still the United States of America.

Now with all of this said who really care what I think? No one..... I was just bored :)

In response to management firing the striking umpires...just so you don't get blasted by some freak who misreads that...

They can't "technically" fire the striking umpires, but they can refuse to ever employ anyone who is a member of the AMLU. The only thing that a collective bargaining agent is is this: If the NAPBL wants to hire someone who is a member of that 220 person staff, they must negotiate with the AMLU. That's what the law says. So, that person would have to resign his membership from the AMLU, or the NAPBL would have to negotiate with the entire group.

If the AMLU wants to win this, they must win the hearts of the players and managers, i.e. , the games must be horribly called...such as the Fresno situation last night...6 batters hit by pitches high and tight and in the back...no warnings issued...massive brawl.

If the NAPBL wants to win this, they have to stay the course, continue to triple the fines, and then restructure the system. They don't ever have to negotiate with the 220 people that are on strike again. Trust me...they break the union...they will hire most of them back on THEIR terms, not the AMLU

Ahem,
 

Speaking of Portland Beaver (AAA) Baseball only:

The Beavers have hired an ex-PCL umpire (released) to be the Crew Chief at all further games. They have also hired two ex-MiLB umpires to mix in with two "replacement" umpires.

There will be five umpires working all the remaining Beaver games. Three ex-professional umpires and two replacement college umpires.

The remaining "replacement" umpires have selected to no longer work the games.

This is informational only in nature.

Regards,

When the AMLU instructed the membership not to accept Spring Training assignments, they abandoned their right to argue further.

In the other thread, I and others have told you - you don't need a contract to work! For some reason, 220 of you feel compelled to demand one. Long ago, we signed individual contracts within the BUD program. We did this because we wanted the job and chance to prove that we deserved the opportunity to move up. Yes, we agreed to bad pay, conditions and benefits - we did so because we understood our place in the game.

Even your leadership recently commented that the members are doing okay because they have other jobs to pay the bills. Maybe it is just me, but if Andy and the gang want to push the idea that thus really IS a career, they might want to rethink that strategy. PBUC knows that they have a Royal Flush and the union is bluffing. The umpiring is not bad enough to warrant an uprising. According to MiLB, six ejections were handed out in all of AA and AAA in the past two weeks. That is four less than last year at the same time.

The leagues, teams and skippers have been admonished and told to behave themselves. The best NCAA umpires will wrap up their seasons long before the playoffs begin and become available. Then the naysayers will have to watch the guys who already earned a nice paycheck take the plums.

I can't believe the photos on the AMLU site either. They crossed a line by publishing them and veiling threats. I hope they have a good understanding of the way the game of politics is played. They may consider themselves on the way up now, but some day (maybe sooner than they expect) they will be just like everyone else. It looked cold in some of those photos of the picket line. That's a shame...they may be out there longer than the know.

Its one thing to make a bad decision yourself, but to lead others astray...
 

The more you post, the more it becomes apparent that you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are simply speaking from emotion and ill will towards the AMLU umpires.

The whole point of creating the union, the whole point of going on strike, is to improve conditions for Minor League Umpires. You seem to think that because conditions are bad when they started, the AMLU umpires should just expect and deal with things being bad forever. There is no chance of the union being broken, the level of umpiring brought by the Scab umpires IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO ANYONE IN MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. Not the players, coaches, managers, GM's, Farm Directors, nobody! There are "gag" orders and instructions to not argue in effect across the board for that very reason. If everything were really OK, Minor League Baseball wouldn't have to handcuff the clubs that way. Only you and Fitz would really believe that a lower number of ejections directly equals better umpiring. The opposite is actually true in this case. The players and managers have commented to the fact that they are "getting away with" far more nonsense than usual.

PBUC simply does not have the means, long term, to staff the Minor League fields without the AMLU 220. Contrary to what Minor League Baseball has attempted to convey in the press, it has not been easy for many leagues to line up umpires at all, not to mention the lack of competency across the board with Scab umpires. Do you really not understand the basic business principals at work here? A union strike is exactly what is happening now. What makes you think this isn't what the AMLU intended? How is it that you see the AMLU as in a lesser bargaining position now than before the season started? As far as your statement about going to work without a contract...? You must not understand the basics here. The point of a union is to collectively bargain, not individually act. It is each individual putting the whole before himself to reap the benefits of what can be accomplished together that is so much greater than what can be accomplished individually. What happens when a scab gets a concussion? Breaks an ankle? PBUC does not (and will never) provide them even the meager benefits given the AMLU under the previous contract.

How long do you think the novelty of "I'm working pro baseball" will last before the reality of "I'm in over my head, and with nothing to show for it" kicks in? Those that are going to scab are doing it, and not necessarily to the detriment of the AMLU. If you wish to cross, do it, but your attempts at justifying why its OK to do so are misinformed and illogical. Bottom line, every man makes a decision, but what do you really stand to gain by getting in the middle of a fight that isn't yours? You can't say money. You can't say prestige or glory; you would be a scab, regardless of how you try to spin it. It boils down to stabbing another guy in the back because you want to prove you are just as good as he is. Fine. ALL UMPIRES ARE EXACTLY EQUAL. Does that remove the feeling of "I'm gonna show them!" ? What if you were just as good as any professional umpire? So what? You still just jumped in the middle of something that didn't involve you and stabbed another man in the back for having done it. No scab deserves to be on those fields. They didn't earn those positions. That is the disgusting part of the whole thing. The Scabs are making fools of themselves and acting important while doing it. Minor League Baseball didn't call any of them last season. There is a reason for that. You should be ashamed at the possibility of your words influencing another to act so foolishly.

Jiggy,

Has anyone seen the gag order in writing? Or has it been confirmed by any of the AMLU memebers since on of the AMLU board members recently wrote that he asked players and managers about it at a recent game and every one said that it didn't really exisit. That nothing more than "be paitient" with these guys was said. Does the AMLU have hard data to support the triple fines rumor? I am just curious.

It has been confirmed by numerous players, managers, and club personnel (management), but in casual conversation and not "on the record" because they don't want to cause trouble for themselves. I know that sounds convenient, but the same stories have come from numerous sources and some that I personally trust. As a general rule such a thing would not be in open circulation in writing as it paints MiLB in a bad light. I think the message may have been communicated in slightly different ways from league to league, but overall it is the same general message: "Don't get into arguments on the field, and don't comment on the umpires off of it." There are also numerous news articles which document the players and managers hesitation to comment on the situation.

The gag order seems to apply as well to the club media (such as radio broadcasts), since some bizarre things have gone completely without comment.

Earn their position?
 

If a "Scab" umpire didn't earn his job, then how is it that once a AMLU guy is not asked back another year, that he "Earns" his position in College Level games?

I find this really interesting, especially since, in my area, we have a AA guy who is taking all kinds of NAIA and Div II NCAA games and making mistakes all over the place. Not only does he have questionable judgement, he also misapplies rules. To boot, he is an instructor at a pro school!

I personally know Div I college guys who are much better umpires than he is and as soon as he is not asked back to minor league ball, the college guys will be out of a job. Did the AMLU guy earn his position?

Now then, let me state for the record that I have not attended umpire school, nor do I desire to attend. I currently call the JUCO, NAIA and DivII NCAA level on a consistant basis and am very happy to be where I am. With this in mind, is it not me that should be more upset about the AMLU guys takign my games? I can guarantee you I have earned my position.

WWTB stated "By the way, how come the AMLU guys are calling the recent pro school graduates 'scabs'?"

I believe the term recent to subjective and could mean any pro-school grads from 2005 or 2004. You might be able to stretch it to 2003 depending on how one defines recent.

A couple of questions:
1) How can you guys (you being AMLU members) be on strike? You don't have a contract. Therefore, you don't have a job. You were offered a contract and refused it. It seems to me like you guys quit...

2) If you don't have a contract, refused the last contract you were offered, and essentially quit, how are the umpires who are filling the positions you left open scabs?

This really isn't worth responding to. Nonetheless...

It is becoming more and more appear ant that most people don't understand the way collective bargaining as a union takes place. The whole point is that the union will choose to strike vs. work without an acceptable contract. This is, essentially the point of the union, as unions may strike and are afforded certain legal protections in doing so. Each AMLU umpire DID NOT "walk out" or "refuse" a job in the minor leagues. Umpires, like players are contracted, both as individuals and as a union. Without a working contract, they don't work. The jobs are still theirs (they haven't been locked out or fired) there simply isn't an agreement in place to allow them to work.

p.s. "stretching" the definition of recent to even 2003 doesn't change any of the facts in this situation.

No one is entitled; what did you put on the line?
 

Have you asked your assignor why he would chose a guy with professional experience and training over one who states "(I)...am very happy to be where I am." and "...I have not attended umpire school, nor do I desire to attend." ? What did you do to "earn" your college games that an ex- MiLB umpire hasn't?

I just read that Dave Yeast has crossed the picket line in Indianapolis. WTF if that all about?


Tim.

Jiggy, AMLU was offered a contract. AMLU didn't like said contract so they didn't sign it and didn't go to work. All your union speak mumbo jumbo aside, you quit. Period. I might feel different if games hadn't started and other people weren't doing your jobs, but that ain't so. And if a new contract is signed, those replacements will be fired/let go/terminated and you will be rehired.

WWTB didn't say that no 2006 grads were working, he said recent. If there are 2005 or 2004 grads working then what he said is true. That most certainly does change the situation. From false to true.

Who are we?
 

Tim,

Like everyone in this situation he probably did what he judged to be best for him. Right? Wrong? I don't know and can't judge, but he did and looks like he thought it was best for him.

Whoa! :eek:

It's really not open to interpretation, the facts are the facts...
 

WRONG AND WRONG. You don't get it.

Showing what he is really made of...
 

No better an illustration of what a scab really is. He stands nothing to gain (and in his case, alot to loose) but chooses to become a part of a situation that doesn't involve him, stabbing other men in the back by doing so. He has proven a man of no integrity and low character time and time again, this just puts an exclamation point at the end of the sentence.

Yes, Mr. Yeast did work in Indianapolis, in fact, there is a photo on the AMLU website. He crossed the picket line in the MLB strike years ago, so it really shouldn't be a surprise that he did it here. I won't criticize him. He has experienced crossing before, so he knows what he's getting into. The bad part is he isn't a bad umpire at all, but he has no friends in professional baseball. Now, is he crying about that...probably not. :)

I've gotten mixed signals from my contacts in and out of pro ball in the past few days about college associations. The ECAC supervisor has told his guys that this may be their opportunity to get to the major leagues. The only fear I have in that rationale is that the guys who are in charge of supervising MLB umpires, i.e., the guys who hire you to work in MLB are all the old union guys from the Richie Phillips era...Richie Garcia, Frank Pulli, Palermo, Rieker...so tell me do you think this may be the shot at the big leagues? I've heard these guys talk in the past, and they're STILL loyal to Phillips, even though he cost them their jobs.

Thoughts?

I think that your assessment is a very good one. Anyone that works, no matter how good they are, needs to realize that they are just going to work until this gets settled one way or the other, but big league dreams? probably not!

First of all, don't assume that because I am happy to stay at my current level that I don't constantly strive to get better.

Second, the assignor (who has never been to umpire school himself) operates on the assumption that because a guy has gone through umpire school, regardless of if he is hired in the minors or not, he is a better umpire than the next guy. With that being said, I do respect a guy who has taken the oppertunity to make himself better buy spending the money and attending pro school. But, I don't think that attandance places that guy above the rest of us.

Third, I have worked my way into college ball through hard work and my reputation. I have worked several years of non-conference games and put in my time to get in. This particular guy has not "earned his stripes" in the college level. Much the same as you are stating that I wouldn't qualify to work a minor league game (not that I'm would or would have the oppertunity, I'm just using that as an example).

Yes. I do not think that these "replacement" umpires believe for one minute that they have a chance in hell of ever seeing the Show. That sounds like somebody blowing smoke up their rear ends.

As far as the people who are crossing the picket lines, here it is:

These games are going to be played, and umpires are going to work them. The only people using harsh rhetoric like the word 'scab' are the union backers. The majority of the people in the U.S. are non-union people. Many of them are extremely anti-union as well. They see nothing wrong with crossing an imaginery line made up by people with strong beliefs of the opposite kind.

Guys like BigUmp56 (who, God bless him, is admittedly my buddy) and JIGGY are die-hard union folks, who see the replacements as 'scabs.' The rest of the world does not see it exactly the same way.

If a guy is a vacation fill-in umpire in the minor leagues is he still a "Scab" if he works the games during a "strike"?

Your not a ventriliquist and I'm not your dummy...
 

I am not and never have been a "union" person. I have never belonged to a union. I simply don't understand why some people would get involved in a situation that has nothing to do with them and which they stand to gain nothing in the end.

no, you're not "my" dummy
 

Yet you call the replacements "scabs," and can't seem to get through a sentence without using the word. That is perhaps why I mistook you for a union person. Usually, that word is reserved for use by people involved in situations that have something to do with them, so I thought you were one of those people.

Regardless of whether or not you belong to a union, you are definitely pro-union based upon your remarks.

Kraine27, very good question. The answer is no - AMLU has agreed with MLB that the AAA umpires currently assigned as MLB fill-in's may work as requested.

Neither AMLU nor MLB sees any sense in holding back the few umpires with a realistic opportunity to gain a full time job this year or next.

What if a guy is a vacation fill-in for the minor league umpires? In other words, this buddy of mine went to umpire school, didn't get offered a job but gets called every summer to work AA for a vactioning umpire. Is this guy considered a "Scab" if he works the games?

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't some games being worked by the nw graduates of the two professional schools? Since the strike was imminent, the PBUC boys knew that they could grab a few guys here and have no issue.

Remember, by their own admission, you have to earn the right to work those games thorugh completion of pro school and to be asked by PBUC to continue. Do you still call those guys 'scabs'?

How many threads are you going to lie in?
 

Fact Vs. Fiction

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NONE and I repeat NONE of the 2006 PBUC grads are working as Scabs!

There are a couple of guys who went to umpire school and washed out (literally did not attend enough classes to graduate and got certificates of "participation" instead) who have chosen to Scab.

WhatWuz again decided to spread misinformation regarding these facts, hope this clears things up.

In the game of credibility, your mistakes and missteps have caused many to wonder. I cite two pro school instructors and the PBUC guru's gang as my evidence. You are still holding a pair of twos and want to go all in. Your bluff has been called and you have lost the pot...again.

('Evergreen' in the background)

You writing that no D1 officials would work as replacements - wrong on so many fields, it isn't even funny.

You writing that the calamity caused by Litle League umpires would cause the league to beg the AMLU guys to come back - two weeks, less ejections and the same controversy that the regulars had.

Your insistence that these guys survive on an $8-$15,000 a year salary - their press releases told that they are prepared to whether a long strike since all of them make more at their other jobs.

You writing that the AMLU boys aren't apprentices - even the league considers them students!

You wrote that there was no way the league would support the replacements - the league issued a terse warning about behavior and said that fines will be levied against anyone who acts reklessly.

What did happen to the recent graduates? Oh, I forgot...you also wrote that former MiLB umpires wouldn't cross the picket line. I seem to have seen otherwise. It's okay, take an aspirin and the pain will go away for a little while.

Don't know who you are talking to. I hope it isn't me as I said none of those things. If you are truely siting AMLU umpires and PBUC staff, then site specifically who you are talking about and what specifically they have said on the issue. Fitz has wisely kept his mouth shut on this issue, so who is it you are talking about? I think you are just talking, trying to make people believe you are in some way important and a privy to "inside" information. You aren't in the game now, and unless you site who it is that you say is giving you information I am saying (having first hand information on the situation) that you are full of $h!T.

I don't know how it is across the rest of the country, but at the few SL games I've attended, there seems to be all the normal jabbering that you'd see with the regular guys. The same disputed calls, pitches, etc. Nothing out of the ordinary, it seems. I would agree, however, as some have already stated, that the honeymoon for these guys is about over and it will be ON shortly.

I saw a AAA game today, 6-0 final. The game was well offiiciated. Umpires worked 3 man rotation very well. No arguments whatsoever.

Not at all. I work as a fill-in for CAL when an umpire is injured, ill, or on leave.

The difference is that NO PICKET LINE IS CROSSED.

Double Picket Fence
 

My team ran that play on a sure double. Second and short went out on relay. Everyone else had a task to do.

"He's not a scab because he only works part-time." This thing about AMLU guys filling in to work games for whatever reason this year because it was okay to do last year STRIKES. What is the lawyer thinking, "Let us plug the leaks and hope the BIG ship will sink faster, and eventually sinks deeper too." Someone better start asking some good questions because I don't think everyone is on the same page here.

I must have missed a memo. When exactly did you specifically cite your source?

Another day in the books and still no call for the AMLU guys to save the day.

You offered no proof as to your opinion. I cited two current instructors from a professional school and someone in Fitz's immediate entourage (it is not that big, so if you can't figure it out that says much about you). You contend that no recent graduates of either professional school are working as replacement umpires and I said otherwise. The box scores prove you wrong, Mr. Wizard. A past student of mine went to pro school three years ago and this past year. He graduated and was offered games. He has worked at least six games that I'm aware of thus far. Hmmmmm...

I think we all know what you are...but once it becomes 0s and 1s, Bob and Mick will delete the post. (Snicker, giggle, chuckle)

im not joining in the arguments that are going on, i have a a serious question: i was under the impression that the names of umpires were being left out of box scores, and i have also heard that umpires names arent announced. are some allowing their name to be put into the box score, or was my impression incorrect?

Brian,

MiLB has ordered that umpire names are not announced or released. I don't have the link handy, but this comes directly from an MiLB interview/press release.

If any names are released it would be by request of the specific umpire.

Actually, I agree with SoCal1, to a point...the league will not disperse the names of replacement umpires unless they receive express permission. Many umpires don't feel the pressure that is imagined by so many here. They have no qualms about working.

If you want to know some of the names, the AMLU boys have no issue publishing them either. Apparently they are immune to the etiquette they wish afforded them. Whatever happened to, 'Brothers in umpiring don't bash each other.'? Respect must be earned by the AMLU gang and they aren't chalking up too many points with the locals. Those guys pay them to come to their winter clinics. They also used to work some Fall ball with them.

If you did site anyone at all, I missed it. Point out where you mentioned who it is you claim to be in good with. Not only won't you, you can't.

Well my opinion doesn't mean much, but I have been around this board long enough to know WWTB and his posts. He has a history here that makes me think he knows what he says he knows.

You came on the seen just recently and have no history. I'd believe him over you in a heart beat.

And besides that, I haven't seen you name anyone either???

Only reputation at this point....

Just to answer your question, he's under the goal post at Giant Stadium in East Rutherford, New Jersey.

The blind leading the blind
 

That makes no sense. Your arguement here is idiotic at best.

I don't have to prove my sources, I am my source. wwtb isn't in the game, and doesn't really know what the hell is going on.

Let's clarify this:

1. NO 2006 PBUC graduate has been offered a job, becasue there are none.

2. Those finishing PBUC were told only where on 'the list' they were & advised of the potential opportunity of a job.

3. If this student simply completed the 5 week course, so what? He's now a well trained (If he paid attention & showed up that is. If he suffered a 'spider bite' then your post means less than zero, because that's what this individual's potential is) umpire ready to learn his/her craft.

Of course this is only my opinion.

Two for the price of one:

That IS priceless...by your own admission, you are not a Minor League umpire, never were and aren't associated directly with the process...that's a hell of a source! Next, you'll tell us that you are the head of a PR firm and live for spinning tales. You couldn't justify being wet after you fell out of a boat.

My sources have been utilized here for quite some time. They keep proving me right. Unlike you, I actually worked the games that are in question. I earned the right to say what I want about the current regime. That's far more than you can say.

1.) Stop twisting words, I wrote that recent pro school graduates were offered jobs as replacements. They were and are working at some low levels.

2.) Read #1

3.) Earlier arguments from the AMLU support group (sounds like a twelve step program) cited that if a 'scab' wanted the right to work in the Minors, he should have paid the money for pro school and been asked to work. Hmmmm...

Of course, you must be omniscient to be able to judge an umpire's talent and potential, sight unseen. I'm curious, how does one get that job? Did you have to go to pro school?

The hole just keeps getting deeper for those thinking like you. The replacements are working out just fine and by the middle of May some top flight D1 umpires will be available for work in the AAA. The AMLU boys made a serious error and are scrambling to target those who are doing just fine. The photos and names on their site are proof of how low they'll stoop. I recall an email that demnaded that as brothers in umpiring we need to support each other. They refused those assignments and now trash the reputations of those that remember their role in the game...nice! Of course, that is only my opinion.

Running your mouth with nothing to say...
 

Hey Jiggy, it's like this. You just got here and have no reputation. WWTB has been here for along time and IMHO has a reputation for giving accurate information about the game. (Pi$$ing contests with Rut excluded, I won't even go there). I'd be much more likely to believe him and very unlikely, considering your short stay here and the quality of your posts, to believe you at all. And I am betting I am not alone in that assessment.

If you are asking WWTB to prove his sources then do the same. You are not producing the information, so you can't be your own source. That kind of thinking truely is idiotic.

You are getting your "information" some where from some one. What's your source???

I bet you dimes for dollars you'll post some innane crap and still won't give a source....

Name a source and prove me wrong. Otherwise your just talking shi.....

I have stirred the peanut gallery...
 

You are inclined to believe someone based on how long they have been posting huh? That's perfectly logical...:eek:

And... I've said before. I am only speaking on those things I have seen first hand. I need not site a source because I am not repeating anything anyone else has said. WWTB can only claim to repeat what others who are in the game have said. The fact that he refuses to name his sources leads me to believe he is simply attempting to act as though he is something he isn't in front of an audience that by and large wouldn't be able to tell the difference. His post are purely emotional and clearly anti-AMLU vs. being objective and informed on the issue. He has shown only an intent to influence others to take a negative view of the AMLU and preach doom and gloom for the labor situation. This is a cowardly thing to do, especially considering his only basis for his commentary is his "sources" which he will not identify. The facts show that the players, managers, and other club personnel aren't completely happy with things. Their comments aren't just normal complaining about umpiring. They speak specifically to a comparison between what they are used to and what they are seeing now. There have been numerous situations that have occurred, that likely would not have occurred with the normal AMLU umpires. It simply cannot be argued that the Scabs are just as good of umpires, as PBUC and MiLB themselves have said otherwise. Sure the games are being played (in case there was a misunderstanding; the AMLU's intent by striking was not to keep the games from happening at all, just to keep the AMLU umpires from umpiring and demonstrate their necessity to the game). MiLB has put out across the board gag orders and no-argument directives; a move that shows their expectation of problems with what they admit is sub-par umpiring. This is part of the spin MiLB has attempted in this situation, admittedly they have managed the press better than has the AMLU. However, the AMLU recognized early (before the strike actually began) that in this case, public opinion would not play any significant part and that the added difficulty of finding, living with, and keeping Scabs would. Remaining objective and looking at only the facts, one cannot honestly believe the "doom and gloom" scenario WWTB and others would like to preach. It only serves to vent frustration from those who have jealousies against the AMLU guys, weather it be for where they are, or the fact that they choose to demand more and assert that they are worth it. Simple fact of the matter is, either way MiLB needs the 220 young men of the AMLU. Even if somehow they "broke" the union, the majority of those 220 would be selected to return to work. They are the best and most qualified to work in the minor leagues, the AMLU knows it, MiLB knows it, PBUC knows it, the players and managers also know it. The only ones denying it are those outside of the game, those that wish to believe that umpires in the amateur ranks are going to "get their shot." What a let down it will be when they realize they never were taken seriously, by either side; they were only Scabs.

This next week should prove important and interesting...stay tuned...

Well Jiggy, you proved me wrong, you didn't post some inane crap... it was actually a half way decent post.

But you still didn't post a source did you??? I called that one didn't I...

You also conveniently forgot the other part of my statement, the one about the quality of your posts being as much a part of my assessment of you. Nice try...

WWTB has posted on this board for a while on matters related to baseball umpiring and I have come to find that he is believable and his information, for the most part, to be pretty accurate. He has established that credibility over time.

You haven't established any credibilty, so yes, the fact that you just got here most certainly factors into whether or not I believe you.

WWTB is not anti-AMLU and is probably more objective than the majority of posters on this board. My personal feelings on this particular matter pretty much mirror what I have seen him post. It is obvious to me that you haven't read his writings on this matter by the way you are trying to characterize his position. Either that, or you are so pro-union that it blinds you to any discussion of whether this strike was a good idea or not.

Watch and listen this next week...I think things are going to progress towards resolution.

It's nice to see Dave has the time to skip his evals and observations of NCAA guys to work minor league ball. It would seem apparent to me that his services to the NCAA aren't all that important after all.

Right to strike...right to replace
 

I'm not going to quote any sources, but I think something the AMLU should remember is simply put:

You do have the right to strike. MiLB has the right to replace you now. Since there is no longer any contract in place, striking is an option, but they can permanently replace all AMLU umpires with whomever they choose. If there isn't much more of an uproar than we've been hearing lately, they just might do that.

Remember, I'm not just saying this to hear myself think...I'm a former AMLU guy also. Just be careful what path Andy Roberts is taking you down.

thatballzlow

Well said.

You and OJ have an awful lot in common. After a while you both think that whatever you say must be the truth.

You claim that I won't reveal my sources (plural) while you have never once intimated where you glean your contrarian views. I have provided far more information about the sitaution, objectively and honestly, than you. You resort to petty name calling, ala the AMLU gang, while I try to knock down your mirrors and clear the smoke.

My posts are far from emotional - I have sided with the game over the interests of a few misguided souls. They knew what they were getting into and claim that they deserve more. I agreed with that but not their tactics. Back in October I proferred the idea that if they strike they would be replaced successfully. So far that has played out. I argued that they should disband the union, sign individual contracts for the year - reorganize and then bargain in good faith. Further, I encouraged them to not begin the terroristic tendencies that other unions have employed. The AMLU gang sent out mass emails and made many phone calls encouraging us to band together and not alienate each other. I guess they feel that the page of photos, names and threats is just fair play. Silly me, I thought they were professional. I have also stated (multiple times) that while I would not choose to work those games as a replacement, I find little fault with those who do. The game is bigger than the umpire.

I actually earned the right to offer my opinion on these subjects. I worked those games in those one stoplight towns, albeit a very long time ago. They have it much better than we ever did but you'll never acknowledge that. I wanted them to work those games and only jumped into this fray when a few unenlightened souls insisted that any umpire who works those games is doing it just to screw the ALMU guys. We now know differently...many need the extra revenue, want the challenge and are capable of making the calls. I'm sick of hearing how a blown call here and a bad strikezone there are novel. Those same *****es and moans were heard when the regular guys were out there. Lest we forget the World Baseball Classic, League Championship Series and World Series last year; those umpires were ridiculed for poor officiating and make a hell of a lot more than $50 a game.

Finally, don't pretend that you know more about the negotiation rumblings than you do. Almost every sports talk station has mentioned that the AMLU guys are backed into a corner and are offering new countersto PBUC. They have to, offers aren't coming from the other side. Once they concede enough and realize their folly, MiLB will probably take them back. Since 99% of them wash out anyway, when they return to earth and find that their new partner is one of the guys they called 'scab', it'll be fun to see that plays out. They also know that the D1 boys are ready, willing and able to step in and finish the AA and AAA seasons in another month. After working 3 man and seeing many thousands of pitches for a few months, they will have the luxury of familiarity. Don't kid yourself, those D1 crews can step in and not miss a beat.

Parting Shot: You really should go back and read the old threads before telling us what I think about the issue. My passion for almost every argument comes from dispelling bad information. If that is construed as being emotional, then I will happily accept that mantel. It's better than being a shill.

Arguing With A Fool...
 

It was amusing for a time, but now the novelty has worn off. You obviously don't know what you are talking about; you provide false information in every post: "Almost every sports talk station has mentioned that the AMLU guys are backed into a corner and are offering new countersto PBUC. They have to, offers aren't coming from the other side.". I will have better things to do with my evenings, I'll let you have your forum to pretend you were are or are going to be somebody. GO FOR IT, MAKE SOME MORE STUFF UP! ALOT OF GUYS ON HERE WILL BELIEVE YOU AND THAT'S WHAT COUNTS. :D