The difference is the ball is live when it goes to the backstop, so if the catcher does not go get it the batter will just keep advancing. But it's dead when the on deck batter picks it up. If batter has not reached 1B yet he is still entitled to it.

The problem with calling an out when the on deck batter picks up the loose ball is there is no basis to make this call. You are making things up, and if your mission is to get out of Dodge quicker you can be gone in half an hour if you just keep making up your own rules. This is not about speeding up the game, it's about getting calls right.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...

I'm enjoying not having to read his posts anymore, as he is the charter member of my ignore list. I got tired of leading him to water.

Thanks for the reminder! Mine too!

All 5-1-1-3 says is the ball is dead. I said that already. But it is dead with no penalty, as there is no play on a batter who just took ball 4.

By the way guys, I am not posting for PWL's benefit but for the benefit of anyone else who may be reading and looking for guidance. He doesn't need any because he is making up his own rules.

Thanks for the answers although there seems to be a difference of opinion. I would like to look at some resouces that have been mentioned, but I don't know what they are. What is J/R and FED?

No, Smiley, there is no difference of opinion. If you've been around at all, you will already know that PWL states perfectly inaccurate answers as often as possible, just trying to stir the pot. If everyone but him is saying one thing, and he is saying another, please don't misconstrue this as a difference of opinion.

You seem to be concerned that there be some sort of penalty for the infraction by the ODB. If you must have one to justify the non-out in your mind, think of it this way. ODB has deprived his team of any chance of a further advance past first base or any subsequent miscue by the defense.

I will answer no further, PWL, unless you can quote me a rule that supports calling an out for this specific situation... and then I will probably still stay on ignore. My bad for making the mistake of replying to your nonsense. I know better.

I'm still undecided, Mike. I'm not sure whether or not he's been doing this to stirt the pot or if he's just that incompetent.


Tim.

In OBR, I'd call this "intentional interference by a person authorized to be on the field." The penalty is "whatever the umpire wants" (no, that's not a direct quote). Without being there, I'd probably choose BR to first, dead ball, all other runners return unless forced.

I don't think FED has this kind of "interference", but I'd look to make the same ruling.

The J/R stands for the Jaska/Roder Umpiring Manual, an authoritative opinion and commentary.

http://www.rulesofbaseball.com/index.html#checklist

FED stand for National Federation of State High School Associations, which makes up a different set of rules, just for High School, and any leagues which wish to adopt them.

And, there is no out in this situation. Just kill the ball and stop the runner at first base.