Scoring Question
 

In our game, a batter walked. On the 4th ball, it got past the catcher. On his way to the plate, our on-deck hitter picked up the passed ball and flipped it to the catcher. The umpire called him out for interference.

How does this get scored? Does the guy who picked up the ball get charged w/an AB? :confused: Where may I read about the rule(s) that would cover this play?

Thanks.

I'd suggest asking your umpire. If I read this right, it's ball 4, there's no play being made on a scoring runner, and the on-deck batter picked up the ball and flipped it to the catcher.

If this is a relaxed action situation, i.e., B/R is advancing to first, and there are no other plays going on , kill the ball and place the B/R on first. I'm hard pressed to find intereference here.

I agree with what maineblue said. Even it was intentional which it wasn’t the on deck person that picked up the ball could not have been called out because he had not taken his position in the batter’s box thus becoming the batter. If it had been intentional the batter would have been the one called out.

BTW… I believe that this would be a protestable call as the ump called the wrong guy out (No one should have been out. Either way protestable).

Batter walked. He gets 1B. On deck batter interfered with a live ball. This does not change the fact that batter walked and is entitled to 1B. Award batter the bases he would have achieved absent the interference. In this case batter actually helped the defense. Batter is awarded 1B on the walk and nothing further. No way batter is out, he walked. On deck batter is not out either.

The former batter is now a runner, not a batter.

<i>6.04 A batter has legally completed his time at bat when he is put out or becomes a runner.</i>

The on-deck guy is now the batter.

<i>6.02 a) The batter shall take his position in the batter's box promptly when it is his time at bat.</i> To do this, he must be the batter before he enters the box.

If he wasn't the batter until he entered the box, the umpire also couldn't order him to bat and call a directed strike because you can only order the batter to do that.


Per the BRD Section 48 the on deck batter becomes the batter when the previous batter reaches base or is put out - all codes.

But if the batter had not reached 1st when the ump made the call than the on deck guy can not become the batter at that point and thus since he wasn't the legal batter he can't be called out.

I was responding to your statement that said:

. . he had not taken his position in the batter’s box thus becoming the batter

Don't you think a little common sense is appropriate here? This was a base on balls award where the ball was handled during relaxed action. The batter-runner advances to first without liability to be put out, so what play could have possibly been interfered with unless the batter-runner made an attempt to go to second. Had there been advance runners not forced I would agree that this could be interference. Even then, it sounds like the on deck batter assisted the cather by flipping the ball to him.


Tim.

OP is not getting his answer - but that is because the umpire did not make a proper call. We don't know how to score this, since it shouldn't have happened. But ... since it did happen, I suppose the only way to treat this would be the same way you might treat it if ODB did actually come to bat, and then interfere with a play before his AB was over. F2 gets a putout. ODB gets an AB.

Now back to the sitch... there is no rule by which you could call ODB out. Even though Rich's definitions are correct and make more accurate the post before his, the ODB is still not a batter in this sitch until the previous play has come to completion. He is merely a member of the offensive team that is legally on the field.

You can't have an out for interference unless someone interferes WITH A PLAY. There is no play here (yet). The ball is dead when he picks it up, obviously, so no play can eventually occur. Had BR rounded first on his way to 2nd prior to this ball being picked up, I can see a case for INT on an offensive player --- but it would be the RUNNER who would be called out. If there was an additional runner for which a play was possible (say someone else trying to advance on the PB), we could have INT - but again, it's the RUNNER who is out. ODB still comes to bat after either.

On this play (assuming no other advancing or in-jeopardy runners), I have dead-ball and nothing else. BR to first. ODB to the plate.

"With bases loaded a pitch eludes the catcher and rolls toward the on-deck batter. The runners each advance one base as the catcher pursues the ball. However, the on-deck batter reaches down and pick up the live ball before the catcher can get to it: interference without a play being made The ball is dead and the runners are restricted to their one-base award."

What is the source for this quote?

J/R 2004 Edition

I can't believe I'm responding to this... but here goes.

1) By what rule are you calling interference on ODB? Please provide the text of the rule(s) involved. Interference is always with a PLAY. There's no PLAY here.

2) Why do you feel that you should ignore the caseplay, which is EXACTLY like this in J/R? (It's posted above if you don't have JR).

You ask me "Why call a dead ball if your not going to call interference. " I call it a dead ball because the ball has become in possession of the offense. It WAS live, but it's not anymore. I call it dead because it's dead. You state this as if any dead ball must be interference. Of course that's false. A dead ball can be dead for any number of reasons.

Then you say, "I suppose if the on deck hitter pitches the ball over the catcher's head by accident or it lodges in his equipment you still have nothing." Why in the world would it matter what ODB does with this ball after picking it up? The instant he does, it's dead. He could throw it to CF for all I care - it doesn't make the ball back live.

Then, "Don't call it one time and not the next. You will have everybody confused if it happens in the same game." When did I say I would do anything other than ALWAYS calling the ball dead if a member of the offense picked it up?

Then, "Offense in no way, shape, or form shall touch or handle a ball purposely when it is LIVE. The only time I want ODB to touch the ball is when the ball gets past catcher and NO ONE is on base and to retrieve foul balls. PERIOD." What does this have to do with interference? Nothing at all. Of course offense should not touch a live ball - if they do, it's a dead ball. But absent a PLAY, it's nothing else.

That's what I said earlier, I just may of not summed it up this well. I hope this settles it!

It's not a play because batter who just took ball 4 is entitled to WALK to 1B. There is no play to make.

The difference is the ball is live when it goes to the backstop, so if the catcher does not go get it the batter will just keep advancing. But it's dead when the on deck batter picks it up. If batter has not reached 1B yet he is still entitled to it.

The problem with calling an out when the on deck batter picks up the loose ball is there is no basis to make this call. You are making things up, and if your mission is to get out of Dodge quicker you can be gone in half an hour if you just keep making up your own rules. This is not about speeding up the game, it's about getting calls right.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...

I'm enjoying not having to read his posts anymore, as he is the charter member of my ignore list. I got tired of leading him to water.

Thanks for the reminder! Mine too!

All 5-1-1-3 says is the ball is dead. I said that already. But it is dead with no penalty, as there is no play on a batter who just took ball 4.

By the way guys, I am not posting for PWL's benefit but for the benefit of anyone else who may be reading and looking for guidance. He doesn't need any because he is making up his own rules.

Thanks for the answers although there seems to be a difference of opinion. I would like to look at some resouces that have been mentioned, but I don't know what they are. What is J/R and FED?

No, Smiley, there is no difference of opinion. If you've been around at all, you will already know that PWL states perfectly inaccurate answers as often as possible, just trying to stir the pot. If everyone but him is saying one thing, and he is saying another, please don't misconstrue this as a difference of opinion.

You seem to be concerned that there be some sort of penalty for the infraction by the ODB. If you must have one to justify the non-out in your mind, think of it this way. ODB has deprived his team of any chance of a further advance past first base or any subsequent miscue by the defense.

I will answer no further, PWL, unless you can quote me a rule that supports calling an out for this specific situation... and then I will probably still stay on ignore. My bad for making the mistake of replying to your nonsense. I know better.

I'm still undecided, Mike. I'm not sure whether or not he's been doing this to stirt the pot or if he's just that incompetent.


Tim.

In OBR, I'd call this "intentional interference by a person authorized to be on the field." The penalty is "whatever the umpire wants" (no, that's not a direct quote). Without being there, I'd probably choose BR to first, dead ball, all other runners return unless forced.

I don't think FED has this kind of "interference", but I'd look to make the same ruling.

The J/R stands for the Jaska/Roder Umpiring Manual, an authoritative opinion and commentary.

http://www.rulesofbaseball.com/index.html#checklist

FED stand for National Federation of State High School Associations, which makes up a different set of rules, just for High School, and any leagues which wish to adopt them.

And, there is no out in this situation. Just kill the ball and stop the runner at first base.