Scab Umpires
 

Yesterday was a dark day in Toledo Mud Hens baseball. The Mud Hens opened defense of their 2005 International League Championship yesterday evening losing at home to the Charlotte Knights, 1-0. But that is not what made it a dark day. It was dark because scab umpires officiated the game. The umpires names were not announced or shown in the box score, but an article in today The (Toledo) Blade stated that the umpires were amatuer umpires hired by the IL. The scabs should be ashamed of themselves.

MTD, Sr.

How did they do?








Just curious.

Amateurs call Hens game
Minor league umpires call a strike, so they were out



By JOHN WAGNER
BLDE SPORTS WRITER


The Mud Hens' opening day game yesterday featured replacement umpires. Earlier this week, the Association of Minor League Umpires called a strike when the union and the Professional Baseball Umpires Corporation, which oversees the umpires, were unable to reach a new contract agreement.

The names of the umpires for yesterday's game were not announced, and the umpires were not allowed to speak with media after the game. All questions about the situation were directed to International League president Randy Mobley.

Mobley said the umpires were amateur umpires that the league has been pursuing ever since the threat of a strike was first raised in November.

"We have secured the best available umpires," he said. "These are amateur umpires with varying amounts of experience, and they are not necessarily just from the local area of each team. We have investigated umpires for months, and these are the best available."

The union is asking for raises in salary and per diem along with improvements in travel, insurance and umpire safety. Management has offered a $100 a month raise and a $1 a day increase to the per diem, though the deductible for health insurance would rise from $100 to $500 a year as well.

Salaries for umpires range from $5,500 for a three-month season in the rookie leagues to $15,000 for five months of work in Triple-A.

Mobley said the biggest problem is a philosophical difference between the union and minor league baseball as to the nature of the job.

"In the past, being a minor league umpire has been treated as an apprenticeship toward becoming a major league umpire," he said. "Now the union leadership wants to position this as minor-league umpiring being a career."

On the Association of Minor League Umpires Web site, union president Andy Roberts said, "A strike is a serious step, and it's not what we wanted to do. But reports of league officials talking about firing umpires who strike has backed us into a corner."

The Web site also quotes John Hirschbeck, the president of the World Umpires Association - the union for major league umpires - saying his union "fully supports our minor-league umpire brothers and their union."

Last night the toughest calls were at first base, with all three going against the Mud Hens. One came in the third inning with Ryan Raburn on first and one out when Ryan Ludwick hit a high-hopper down the third-base line. Charlotte's Josh Fields backhanded the ball and threw to first. The ump called Ludwick out, even though replays showed Ludwick beat the throw.

Another close play came when Nook Logan tried to beat out a bunt leading off the eighth. Knights pitcher Paulino Reynoso picked up the ball, which was bunted down the first-base line, whirled and threw to first, where Logan was called out on a very close play.

On the final play of the game, Jack Hannahan hit a slow roller to second base, but the throw by Andy Gonzalez just beat Hannahan to the bag.

"The guy at first had some tough calls. There were some bang-bangers over there," Toledo manager Larry Parrish said. "Those were plays that would have been tough for anybody to call. I didn't see a glaring problem there. And the [ball-strike calls] were good enough."

Local umpires also worked spring training.

"It's just something that everybody has to deal with, " Parrish said.

Minor league baseball begins season with anonymous replacement umps

By JOEDY McCREARY, AP Sports Writer
April 6, 2006

PEARL, Miss. (AP) -- A big question surrounded the mysterious replacement umpires working the Double-A Mississippi Braves' season opener.

Who were those guys?

ADVERTISEMENT


Minor league baseball's season began across the country Thursday with regular umps striking over wages and working conditions, and fill-in umps taking their place.

At a Southern League opener in suburban Jackson, secrecy shrouded the three-man crew calling the night game between Mississippi and the Huntsville Stars.

"The replacement guys, I'm confident they're going to umpire to the best of their abilities," first-year Mississippi manager and former big leaguer Jeff Blauser said. "They have a lot of pride, obviously, in what they are doing. And they have a lot of passion for the game, or they wouldn't be here."

Still, there wasn't much made known about these replacements. Their names weren't announced over the loudspeaker. They weren't mentioned on the team-distributed scoresheets. They wouldn't even identify themselves to -- or discuss their new jobs with -- reporters.

Each league was responsible for assembling its umpiring pool, with many believed to have come from the junior-college and college ranks.

Major League Baseball sent a memo to its teams on March 29 requesting that franchises and staff be patient with and respectful of the replacements, and Blauser agreed.

"We all know the situation -- those umpires, regardless of whether they're in the big leagues or in A-ball, they have good days and bad days," Blauser said.

The replacements filled in for the regular minor league umps, whose contract expired after last season. The union voted last month to authorize the strike and boycotted spring training.

The union was formed in 2000 and has about 220 members in 16 leagues. The umpires say their salaries average $15,000 at Triple-A, $12,000 at Double-A, $10,000 in full-season A-ball and $5,500 in rookie leagues.

George Yund, a lawyer representing the Professional Baseball Umpire Corp., has compared minor league umpiring to an educational program rather than a lifetime career and has said umps receive annual raises because of increased service time even though the scale itself hasn't increased.

Yund has said umps refused to work rather than accept a 42 percent increase in spring training compensation, arranged by the PBUC with major league baseball. But Andy Roberts, president of the Association of Minor League Umpires, has said any management-offered increases in the contract would be wiped out by rises in health care payments.

The union has filed unfair labor practice charges with the National Labor Relations Board. The association alleges management threatened to fire employees who went on strike and asked several of the unionized umps to work as replacements.

The union claims it was told two months ago by management that talks had reached an impasse

was this thread necessary...at all?

every single day, at every single park, at every single level - "scabs" will be working. i think we all knew that.

Well, prolly too soon to tell the quality of the umpiring. 3 judgment calls at 1B on bangers says nothing. I, personally, will be interested to hear/see more serious matters like rules knowledge/application, rotations, game management, things of that nature. Time will tell.

There's a AA team in my town so I may have to buy a couple of tix soon....

You have an issue, Go get a tissue!!

The MiBL ump union does next to nothing for thier own people ask some of the guys that were not renewed this season, including guys who were just waiting to get called up to the next level, but no one there was released, so they were. STUPID. I say GO SCABS GO.

I hope the opportunity to work those games is worth it for those that decided to go out there. I can tell you this might affect them in ways they do not realize at this early stage. Do not think people are making notes and finding out about them. Word gets around.

Peace

In some parts of the country, it MIGHT affect them, but in most places it won't. Outside of heavily unionized areas, there isn't much sympathy for unions in general. There's a belief that the union protects lousy work habits and raises prices by artificially keeping wages too high. I'm sure that really isn't the case with the minor league umpires and I think the pay listed is abysmal.

However, there are many officials for amatuer sports that think we are underpaid as well. Our option? Quit and do something else. So there isn't much sympathy for striking officials. Either way, I think most upper level college assignors would see it as a plus to bring on a guy with some limited AA experience. They are going to like the fact that they are available and willing to work.

First of all I support the Minor League Umpires and really feel that they have been short changed for a long time. I am not sure how they make it on this type of salary in the first place.

I remember a few years ago were the current major league player through MLBPA cut a percentage from the current players to help former players who were not fortunate to make the cash they do today.

Has anything been asked of the current MLBUA to do this? I am not sure of what these guys make but they all come up through the ranks of minor league baseball and know the day to day struggles.

These umpires, are they local high school umpires? How do they afford to leave their work to do these games? It seems that it would be hard to find umpires who are employed to work day games.

Myself, there's no way I could just drop my job and work games at this level unless they were all played during the evening.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who throws the word SCAB around is just trying to be inflammatory.

You might be right, but like it or not that is the terminology that is being used. I know for a fact that is the terminology that many Minor League Umpires are currently using.

Peace

I've read some beautys from his fingertips, but this one is right at the top.

The AMLU boys are calling them 'scabs'. Wow! The MiLB administration and most news reporters are calling them 'replacements'. They are replacing the boys that are getting fired for job abandonment. 'Scabs' implies that they are filling in temporarily until the AMLU boys get their rightful jobs back. PBUC already said that ain't so.

Do you want to know what some rednecks refer to African Americans as? That's about as stupid as the statement you made. Of course those boys will besmirch the good name of the replacements and use hateful terms. They are now on the outside looking in and like asking a scorned wife what she thinks of her ex-husband, you get only one side of the issue.

In reference to how they replacements are performing, even the skipper of the losing team acknowledged that the plays were tough to call and any umpire would be put to a test. I've seen dozens of calls by MLB umpires that were incorrect when reviewed by videotape. I guess those AMLU guys forgot about the League Championship and World Series calls. According to their way of thinking, the guys making those calls are light years ahead of them because of their training and commitment. Hmmmm...maybe we should use replay if the best can't get them right either.

The idea that those working as replacements will be jeopardizing their amateur careers is ridiculous. If a local assignor chooses to blacklist an umpire good enough to work as a replacement, then he deserves to make those 11pm calls begging for fill ins for his contests. If you don't want to work them don't; that other guy may really need to work them for the money and you are going to judge him?

Finally, this thread was started by a union member and sympathizer. Enough said...

That simply can' be true...I mean, two months ago when I suggested that this would happen, the AMLU guys said that I was crazy. It seems that water does seek its' level. Most D1 umpires live for the challenge of the best athletes performing in front of them. This is not as difficult a transition as some would imply. The proof is in the press clippings.

Of course everything is going OK, the season only started last night. What is going to happen when all these D1 guys are not available and the guy that cannot get a varsity game has to work their games? Then come to me and tell me how great everything is. It is too early to think anything has happened.

Peace

Tim:
 

Thank you for the informations. :)

Peace

Rich:

I was not being inflammatory. But that is just what the "replacement" umpires are: scabs.

MTD, Sr.

They are scabs just as much as the AMLU members are apprentice umpires.

how do you know?
 

Tim, I wonder if you can provide some more information. Are you saying:

A. You know all of the umpires working PDX, and none of them (so far?) is a D1 umpire.
B. You know all of the D1 umpires in Portland, and none of them is working PDX.
C. You know all of the D1 umpires in Oregon, and none of them is working PDX.
D. You know all of the D1 umpires in the Pacific Northwest, and none of them is working PDX.
E. You know all of the D1 umpires in the world, and none of them is working PDX.

I'm really not trying to bust your balls (well, maybe a little :D). I'm interested to see how far MiLB will go to get qualified umpires up there: will they fly in D1 umpires from CA, for example? From TX? From WI?

They might regard the expense of that as an investment in breaking the union, and as a preliminary to introducing a new system of umpiring. On the other hand, if they do not do that, then that would be good news for the union, I think: they're not willing to invest in breaking the union, and they plan to get the pro umpires back on the field ASAP.

I would think that this info would be valuable to observers and participants alike.

AMLU are not "apprentice" umpires. They are umpires that have proved that they are a cut above the vast majority of umpires in this country. Scabs could very well be qualified umpires, but they are showing disrepect to their fellow umpires who are members of the AMLU.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who throws the word SCAB around is just trying to be inflammatory.


Peace,

Kinda like the correct terminology for the striking umpires is "unemployed" being used by many of the club owners.

Thanks, Tee.

I'm I college umpire, and no I'm not working minor league games. And I sympathize completely with the MiLB umpires plight.

I've been involved in two umpire strikes, one in high school (before I was college) that essentially ended my doing extensive HS ball and a three year strike against high-level college summer ball, during which time I worked no summer ball, period.

Characteristic to both were that they were able to find replacements. Quality varied but management put on happy face releases, gagged the field personnel and tolerated the goings on. Casual fans think we're all bad anyway.

Both strikes ended when the field people had had enough and complained. But that takes a long time. Sadly, I see a generation of MiLB guys lost.

Assuming this goes on for a while, Major LB has a vested interest here since their system of developing umpires is in jeopardy. Remember the current system was put in place to change the local guys doing games-getting promoted-political system that existed prior to the 60s. I'm not looking to start a college guy can-do-it-as-well debate. I'm saying that simply promoting a local guy doing AAA to a bigs schedule is an adjustment. If they start to do that how will the entire MLB system adjust?

It's all good...for now...
 

Contrary to popular belief, time is on the side of the AMLU. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you're not gonna fool anyone at some point!

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...325/1007/RSS02

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pb...91/1003/SPORTS

I thought everything was OK. :D

Peace

Really nice of 3 guys to make a committment and then back out at the last minute. Either work or don't, but be up front about it.

As for the other article, I guess none of the AMLU guys ever miss a call. They're perfect. Just another union sympathizer using his column. Who cares?

It does not matter if the union guys miss calls or not. Unfortunately for those that decide to work these games, that is going to be the knock on them. Also Minor League players are either going to be in the union and many of the managers were in the union. You think they are just going to give these guys a lot of slack?

Right or wrong is not the issue here. Every decision these guys make they are not going forget that these guys are not the “pros.” Life is not always fair. We get enough crap when we are perfectly qualified, why would you want everyone to know going in you are not. Perception is often reality in the real world.

Peace

From what I heard, though, the umpires aren't getting grief on the field. Just another columnist latching on to the controversy of the day.

Rich...
The players, coaches, and managers have been instructed not to give the replacements heat. They will remember for a few days, but in a week or so, it will become too much to hold in. There should be some real blow-ups by then.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...325/1007/RSS02


"Nothing against these guys, but most of the regular umpires have been in this league five or six years," Tyner said. "They are used to this. They've spent years training to work at this level."

Ok, correct me if I got this wrong, but I thought that two(or at the most three) was the most you could be at AAA without moving up or getting canned. Maybe this writed should use a little less time calling people names like a third grader and a little more time checking his facts.

Joe In Michigan

That's what's quoted, but they keep those umpires hanging on as long as they want (and then eventually release them since only 1 guy a year on average retires).

OK, you shall be corrected. At AAA guys usually spend a few years before getting fill-in work, then a couple more as fill-ins before possibly getting hired by MLB. Until they get to AAA, umpires are generally let go after not moving up after 2 years.

And since the replacements are just there until the strike is settled, there should be a record number of ejections when that happens. I don't think management is going to cave regardless of the number of blow ups.

Ok, I should have said exactly what I meant by "moving up". I consider becoming a fill-in guy "moving up". Now, if you do not become a fill-in guy within a few years, you will not stay at AAA for years and years, right?

I think you're right on this one....

I know a number of the guys calling in this area for the TL AA team. They are all HS and above blues and I believe some do have D1 experience. A number of them are doing it because they have been calling for years and are not worried about repercussions as some of them are the assignors themselves. While they feel for the MiBL umps they are also taking advantage to say that they called at the Pro level. I cannot say I blame them really. If I was in the same position I cannot say I would refuse it either. In listening to some of the games on the radio, I have not heard the announcers say anything about bad or blown calls. Closest was a strike 3 call that the batter thought was outside and the announcer said he might have a case. I know the blue that was working the plate in that game and I would not doubt he got it right.

Here's a crazy idea...if you want to work professional baseball, how about going to umpire school!! Or, if you don't want to go to umpire school, call the local MiLB parks, send them a resume, and explain that you would like to be placed on their reserve list to fill-in for injured MiLB umpires during the season.

Check out what happened at the Columbus Clippers game last night with the "fill-ins":

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/clip...411-E1-00.html

Here's a crazy idea. Why wasn't a protest filed?

The same crap could just as easily happen with AMLU umpires. The assumption that AMLU umpires are perfect is a bad one. Weird crap like this doesn't happen often at the AAA level and who knows how IL umpires would've handled it.

Whatever side of the isle you sit on, the point that many of us are trying to make here is that no matter what these umpires do they are going to be second guessed and challenged based on their "known" inexperience. Maybe the union guys would have made the same mistake, but that is not going to be perceived the same by the players, coaches, fans or media. I know we would all hope that would not be the case, but it obviously is. I know how guys get treated when they are known to have worked their first varsity game. I can only imagine what it is like for guys to now work with people who are trying to make a living playing a game.

Peace

I say again and again...
 

Throw the "we all make mistakes" and "an umpire is an umpire" crap out of the window. Any AMLU guy wouldn't have made that mistake because that is not that unusual of a situation and one that is covered very extensively in their professional training. It is not considered a difficult play by any stretch of the imagination at that level. That is a very very amateur mistake. Take whatever side of this situation you wish, but lets not pretend for even a second that the AMLU guys as a whole aren't leaps and bounds better than the scabs who have come to fill in for them.

I agree that the AMLU apprentice umpires are ahead of the replacements at the AAA level. (I love how one can play games with labels like scab and apprentice umpire -- it's like my local paper using anti-choice instead of pro-life which shows their biases and transparency just like anyone using the word SCAB in these posts.)

But don't tell me that this mistake couldn't get made, at least originally. Frankly, I'm surprised that this wasn't sorted out in the discussion afterwards. But again, where's the protest?

Mr. Jiggy,

You may be right here. I, for one, find it very difficult to take an adult seriously who insists on calling people names who disagree with him. Name-calling is silly.

One who disagrees with you could call them-The guys replacing the crybabies-that would also be silly.

Try making your point without resorting to juvenile name-calling.

Joe In Michigan

That's exactly what I am telling you. This is not a difficult play at all! There is no excuse for such a mistake. While we don't know for sure that the game was not protested, who cares? By your logic, it's ok for umpires to be incompetent because if the screw up the teams can just protest and it'll be ok. WOW, what non-sense! You want to know why an AMLU guy would get the play right? Because if they didn't (especially if they took and lost the protest) they would loose their job.

...its ok though...the scabs are doing a great job...

YEAH RIGHT...STAY TUNED...

SCABS
THE OTHER WHITE MEAT :cool:

The line drive play Froemming missed before discussion on Sunday wasn't difficult either. Don't see him losing his job or being criticized harshly over it.

A AAA-level manager doesn't know to protest a rules misapplication and it's no big deal.

And the word is lose, not "loose."

I see you can't NOT use the word scab, either. Too bad. I'd be more incliined to consider your opinions then.

Call a scab a scab...
 

Scab refers not to those who disagree with me or anyone else (many people on here disagree with me and are not Scabs). Scab refers to those who have made a choice to cross the line:

Main Entry: 1scab
Pronunciation: 'skab
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Swedish skabbr scab; akin to Old English sceabb scab, Latin scabere to scratch -- more at SHAVE
1 : scabies of domestic animals
2 : a crust of hardened blood and serum over a wound
3 a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms4 : any of various bacterial or fungus diseases of plants characterized by crustaceous spots; also : one of the spots


"After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.

A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.

When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out."

...

"Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British army. The scab sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family, and his class."

-attributed to Jack London

Rich:

I believe the protest may have been lodged, but proved moot as the team the call went against won the game.


Tim.

...
 

First off, catch/ no catch is not a rule application, it's judgment. Secondly, if you think a manager at that level doesn't know how to protest, you're crazy. They knew it was wrong, and they knew it was protestable. Let a few of those situations simmer for a while before the managers and players decide "to hell with the gag order and keeping peace!"

Such emotion, such drama. Such bull****. I'm overwhelmed with the desire to yawn. I'd love to keep this up, but I need to leave for my game now.

I like the leeward side. Better weather.

It was an easy call regardless.

Something true in life -- rats will always look for scapegoats. Umpires are easy targets when all is normal, I agree that these guys will be even easier targets eventually, and it has nothing to do with the quality of their umpiring.

...
 

By your definition, 3-b(2) could define James Hoye, Bob Davidson, Lance Barksdale, Ed Hickox, and any other Triple A umpires who have decided to strike in the minors, but accept MLB assignments. That seems a little hypocritical to me.

The conversation would sound something like this, "I will stand beside my MiLB bretheren all the way.....hang on the phone is ringing.....good luck guys, I am headed to San Francisco!"

So much for support.

I knew the "new and expanded fonts/colors" was a bad idea.:rolleyes:

...but a "ignore this poster" in Preferences would be a godsend.

...
 

AAA-->MLB fill in assignments are not within the contract with minor league baseball and have nothing to do with the AMLU. So how would working a MLB assignment have anything to do with the strike whatsoever? Not at all a part of the labor dispute.

Jiggy,

Your argument is illogical in nature. You claim that the reason this call was blown is because the umpires were amateurs. You claim that any AMLU guy would never make that mistake. That is illogical and is a "sweeping generalisation" or "accident" fallacy. The fact is that most amateur umpires would have gotten that call right, as well as most professionals.

Using words such as "any" or "all" or "every" results in illogical statements, and diminish the quality of one's arguments.

I have seen professional umpires kick the crap out of calls at every level, especially at the MLB level, which is supposed to be the highest level, the "cream of the crop." You are not saying that you have never blown an easy call in your entire career, are you?

Please refresh my memory on what qualifies an umpire to serve as a fill-in for MLB.

The AAA umpires chosen by MLB to be fill-in's ALL:

1. Have a minimum of two years AAA experience
2. MLB evaluators chose each for extended training (Spring & winter)
3. Attended MLB spring training for evaluation by MLB staff prior to assignment

The contracts for these umpires come from MLB, not MiLB. MLB has paid MiLB to hire eight additional AAA umpires so that the crews don't go short handed when guys are called up. MiLB has canceled the contract for the duration of the strike.

AMLU chose to have these umpires continue working MLB games. It was a union decision, supported by a large majority. (This info came directly from an AMLU member).

As an aside, WUA is supporting AMLU in several ways, including the letter from John Hirschbeck, retired umpires on the picket lines (Not sure if any active guys have made one YET) and I'm sure other ways.

So to answer the question, no the AAA fill-in's are not scabs by any accepted definition.

OH BUT IT IS AVAILABLE!!!

Ignore this poster is available in your User Control Panel. JRutledge is already built in. You just have to activate it! :)

...
 

Couldn't have said it better!

Wow, so it is! I was quite unobservant.


Thanks.....I'm starting my list now :D

Name-calling
 

I have a dictionary, Jiggy. I already read the definition of the word 'scab'. I still say it is silly to use the word.

Crybaby is in there. Those who disagree with the AMLU could use that word-but it would be silly.

People are more likely to take you seriously if you learn to communicate without name-calling. It is truly remarkable that you cannot understand this fact.

Joe In Michigan

Individuals are not going to change the language of the people that have crossed the line just because it makes you upset. You have to be more realistic than that. ;)

Peace

I am not upset
 

Jrutledge,

I am not upset. I was giving Mr. Jiggy some advice. For some reason, many union members and supporters do not realize how many people just shut them off when they use insulting language.

They should change their language because name-calling is not an effective method of communication.

Wouldn't we be more 'peaceful' if people used civil language to communicate?

Joe In Michigan

This is bigger than Jiggy. This is the term that is currently being used whether Jiggy, me or anyone else here decides to use the term. Also this is an emotional issue all the way around. I know we can get into name calling here and the issues we discuss are not even that important. This issue affects people's careers and future opportunities. The use of this term is no different than someone calling the striking umpires stupid for deciding to strike or taking a chance on their career. This conversation is not just going to all of a sudden become civil because of the use or non-use of one word.

I also want to that Jiggy did not start this thread and the person that did start this thread is not even a baseball umpire (by all accounts) and never has been a baseball umpire. If anything that should show you how emotional this issue can be.

Peace

...
 

Of course.

Of course this term is being used. That is the reason that I posted.

You seem to have missed my point completely. My point is that name-calling is a bad way for anyone to communicate.


Again, name-calling does not contribute to peace.

Joe In Michigan

[QUOTE=jwwashburn]Of course.



I do not think I am missing any point. If you are so concerned about the use of "scab" then why have you not called out the names of people that sit on the other side of this issue and have done the same? I am just a question

I do not disagree with you on that. I am just wondering if your expectation of "peace" is realistic on the internet of all places. This conversation is not much different here as it is in local places and the term "scab" was used many times by actual Minor League Umpires I know.

Peace

Wait a second, my bullsh*t detector just went off.

I have gone back through this, and other threads dealing with this issue, and I have not seen any posts from "the other side of this issue" that refer to the AMLU umpires in terms remotely similar to the ugly word "scab."

The worst thing I have read is the words "apprentice umpires." This is a term used by the management of MiLB, and not meant as an insult.

Please cite examples of such harsh rhetoric, any horrible names being used against the minor league umps, and I will call those individuals out.

Pick a lane and stick to it.

I thought you were ignoring my posts?

Peace

The names have been changed to protect the guilty
 

A lot of umpires don't handle things the way they should on a baseball field for fear of confrontation too. If you fight fires for a living, you're a firefighter. If you grow corn, you're a farmer. If you wait for and take the opportunity to cross the line and undercut union workers, you're a scab. Think of it this way: your name is what is given you by your parents, your title is what you do. I'm not calling names; I don't know their names, but I can address them by their title which is apparent by their actions.

I had a good friend who was at the game in question. While the call could have been missed by professional umpires as well, the chances of such are very unlikely as the call certainly was not a difficult one according to the rules. However, under no circumstances would a professional umpire have a "15 minute argument" over the play as happened in this case! This is the worst part of the umpiring in this situation, not the missed call. If you miss a call that happens, although this particular situation is one where after getting together, the umpires should have been able to make a correct ruling. Apparently, for most of the 15 minutes manager Razor Shines was screaming at one of the umpires. This is competely unacceptable. Triple A players and managers certainly know when they should be run and apparently the umpires would not oblige Shines and run him during the argument. After the incident, the game turned into a complete farce as Shines yelled at the plate guy about every pitch before he finally ran him two innings to late. He then proceeded to shred his lineup card on the umpire treating him with all the respect he apparently deserved for his gutless handling of the situation.

Jiggy,

Serious question! What is your definition of undercut? Because the replacement guys are making more than the AMLU guys did. In your previous definiton of scab, I saw that number 3 stsated that they would do the same job for a lesser wage. If reports are correct, then that is not the case.

Find where I said this while you are answering my original question.

I said I did not care that you do not care. I never said I would ignore your posts. That was several other posters who were considering ignoring you.

I want my question answered, since you made the ridiculous statement that people on the other side of the strike issue were calling AMLU umpires names comparable to "scab." I said that's BS. Show me the harsh names that are being attached to the minor league umpires who quit their jobs.

Steve,

I recall that in one of the older threads someone tried to compare a MiLB umpire that worked HS or College games to a scab. When it was brought out that the umpire(s) in question were long time members of the respective associations and that the games had been scheduled well before the strike, the issue was dropped.

Since SOMEONE is going to ask, the AMLU stance is that members will work HS or college games only when no qualified umpire is available to the association. IE: they are not out there taking games away while asking us not to do MiLB games.

Once again, I did not say anything about you. I thought you were ignoring everything I say and you have found no value in my posts. Oh well, I will do the ignoring for you. :D

Peace

It is remarkable
 

Mr. Jiggy,

I mistakenly thought that you wanted to give a persuasive arguement to the guys thinking about umpiring in the Minor Leagues this year. It seems that I was wrong, you just want to use inflamatory language. It doesn't work.

Why not try giving the reason why it is OK for AMLU guys to do other jobs that people want but it is wrong for people to do the jobs that the AMLU guys have refused?

Joe

I never said anything of the sort. You are a master at putting words in people's mouths. I never said I was going to ignore you, nor did I say anything about the value of your posts. Please just answer the questions asked of you, unless you are intentionally being obtuse.

You can't get away with making a flip statement such as this, and not answer for it:

Now, show me an example of ugly names leveled at the AMLU umpires, and quit skirting the issue.

Steve,

As you always do you want to make this about my personality when I was not even talking to you or about you. I am not answering any questions for a person that only wants to make this a personal debate.

Turn the page and take the comments for what they were worth. I was not even talking to you at all. I was talking to Joe and he did not seem offended.

Peace

?
 

I am offended if you made it up.

The great thing about this site is you can now look up any comments and things people said on both sides of this issue. If you believe the term scab is inappropriate, I have the right to feel other comments are inappropriate as well. You cannot shape this discussion to just your point of view. The term "scab" is here to stay. The term has a long history in this country and has been used in all kinds of union/company disputes. Many are not going to stop using it because it offends you. Sorry, those are the facts.

Peace

^
 

Jrutledge,

Do you realize that you do not seem to actually reply to what people are saying? Maybe you do this by accident but it sure seems like you do it on purpose.

I already said it does not offend me.

It was asked for you produce something that ANYone said inflammatory or insulting about AMLU guys. You utterly refuse to do so-I think it is because you made it up.

As for your comments about using the word 'scab'...it shows an stunning misunderstanding of civil communication. The issue is not whether or not people use the word. Of course people use the word. Why do you keep telling me that people use the word?

My point is that it is not constructive to use insulting and inflammatory language. It certainly is not in harmony with your sig.

Joe

What was so sad
 

Theres nothing sad about a a union going on strike and having to find replacements. It happens all the time. It wasnt long ago that the MLB umpire went on strike was it sad to see the scab minor league umpires calling the games. I dont think so

Scabs not so bad
 

Come on people lets get real.... Did we really think that Minor League Baseball was going to cancel the season. I mean come on, the only Diff. between a Minor league Ump. and the umps that are now scabs is.... well nothing. I guess u can argue that the minor league umps know section 3/a 103 of the rule book better than the scabs, but the fans dont care, nor does minor league baseball. That is a developmental league.

Important!! Please Read!!
 

Gentlemen, gentlemen?

Since I am the person that started this thread I am going to take it upon myself to get it back on track. Yes, I use the word scab; and JIGGY correctly defined a scab, the word that I used in my origianl post.

That definition of scab is the point I am making. The umpires that are taking the place of the striking umpires are unprofessional and unethical. I know that is a very strong statement to make but it is true, nonetheless. I know if an incident in a fast pitch softball tournament last year, where the tournament director came onto the field while the game was in progress and stopped the game to complain to the plate umpire for tossing a coach who lost control of himself when his pitcher was penalized for quick pitching. The tournament director was told to leave the field by the PU. Instead he pushed the PU and swore at him. This was done if front of the BU and all of the spectators watching the game. The PU walked off the field, but his BU refused to leave the field and an unpire would had a game off gladly took the PU's place so he could make another game fee.

Yes, scab is a fighting word, but it what the replacement umpires are doing make them worthy of being called a scab and I cannot possibly have any respect for them when they gladly stab a fellos sports official in the back just so that they can earn some "big" money and have a memory of their big chance.

MTD, Sr.

Please see my latest post above.

MTD, Sr.

It's not TRUE, Mark. It's your OPINION. There's a difference. And your story is completely unrelated to the MiLU situation.

Mark,

It is incredible that a smart guy like you cannot understand that you lose so many listeners when you insult and call names. A lot of people will not listen to you, even if you are right. It seems like union rhetoric is not meant to persuade.

Instead, why don't you try a reasoned and respectful argument? Some of the guys who have worked Minor League games may see your point and refuse to do any more. Some guys who are undecided may be swayed in your direction.

Joe

I feel like I am driving the short bus for umpires...
 

I try very very hard to give people the benefit of the doubt...but it is getting hard to believe that there is any intelligent life out there...

I HATE REPEATING MYSELF...

Calling them scabs is not name calling the same way that calling a Cop a Cop, or a Crackhead a Crackhead is not name calling. Whether you or anyone else likes the term, it is the correct title. The Crackhead's name is Pookie, but his title is Crackhead.

...And again with the "there's no difference between a guy off the street in a blue shirt and the minor league guys" crap? Anyone who makes ignorant statements like that simply proves the opposite to be true. You don't know what you don't know; on a professional baseball field, that can get you in a lot of trouble. This has already started to prove true for the Scabs and will only get worse before there is a resolution to this. The gap is immense. That doesn't mean that amateur guys aren't good people, or even good amateur umpires, it just means they aren't on the level at that level. Some of us need to realize we really couldn't win a game of one on one with Michael Jordan. It's a great fantasy but, as much as we would like to compare ourselves to him, ("I've got 10 fingers and toes too...") we would not even be worth his time it would take to embarrass us. A blue shirt doesn't make you an umpire, and being good at one level doesn't make you even qualified at the next.

I have answered your question, I just do not agree with you. You also can look up any discussion that we have had here. I am not going to waste my time when this site clearly has a search feature where any of us can look up words, topics and people's posts. I do not refuse to do anything. I think that you are intelligent enough to use the feature and come to a conclusion all by yourself. You have seemed to drawn a conclusion so why do you need me to prove it to you?

I do not thing it matters or has anything to do with being inflammatory on an internet site. If this comment is inflammatory it makes me wonder how umpires like yourself react when other things are said on the field?

Peace

Joe,

It's like talking to a post.

He is not going to answer the question, because he refuses to ever admit that he has made a mistake. He can't come up with any insulting comments directed at AMLU members (which is the question we are asking, Jeff).

Let's just go with the fact that all the harsh words are coming from the MiLB umpire camp, and not from those who take issue with them.

Most people were, myself included, 100% behind the AMLU, until they started ripping us so-called "amateur" umpires, calling us "Charlies" and "Smitties", and showing the contempt and disdain that they really feel toward us. Once I saw what their modus operandi was, while still feeling their pain, I became much less sympathetic to their plight.

Now I find myself rooting for the "scab Charlies" to do a half-way decent job, since the games were going to get played with or without the regular umpires.

What I find funny about this discussion is now you do not like the tone of the discussion and now you want to tell everyone how to have the conversation. If you ask me anyone that supports a scab is inflammatory in itself. I do not need specific language to find that objectionable or unacceptable. I know where I live there are guys who are not even respected at the HS level working while these games. In some cases there are guys who are not even currently umpires that are working some of these games. Now some of you here do not want to have the discussion because a word is used but you are here having the discussions anyway. :rolleyes: If it bothers you so much, do not read the posts and find another topic to discuss. Maybe what kind of chest protector to use or whether +POS gives great service or not is more up your alley. I can tell that any discussion about serious issues is not going to be fit for your sensitive heart.

Peace

"Haha, charade you are." - Pink Floyd, Pigs, Three Different Kinds

Great, more name calling. Is this the proof you need? ;)

Peace

Jeff, are you a member of the AMLU? I asked for specific remarks directed toward the Minor League Umpires. Your inability to answer the most simple of questions is the reason I said you are a charade.

You post statements, and then, in true liberal fashion, try to double-talk your way out of them, without really addressing the original question. You were wrong, realized you were wrong, and then tried to half-step your way around it, thinking that we are stupid anyway, who's going to notice? But I noticed.

To further quote the song, "you're nearly a good laugh, you're nearly a laugh but you're really a cry."

I have answered your questions (which for the most part are very broad and not related to the issue at hand). I am just not going to answer them in the manner that you want me to just to make you happy. What I seem to say makes you upset and I am personally getting a kick out of that. I never even responded to you in this debate about what I claimed or did not claim about the tone of this discussion.

Now you are quoting music I most likely do not listen to. You already referenced Pink Floyd a group I never listened to or liked. I have a couple of references for you but that would be name-calling. So I will refrain from those types of words. :D

Peace

Translation
 

TRANSLATION FROM JRUTLDGE INTO ENGLISH:
When I said that people were calling AMLU guys names, I was totally making that up. All of the insults and nastiness have come from those that support the AMLU.

LOL :D


TRANSLATION FROM LMAN INTO ENGLISH:

LOL :D

TRANSLATION FROM JOE'S WORLD TO REALITY

I cannot look up the conversations myself; I need someone to hold my hand and use Google or the search engine because I am too dumb to know how to read. Even though I am too lazy to look up the several conversations that were had, I need Jeff Rutledge to do the hard work for me. Also I am not smart enough to read the comments just made in this post about socalblue1 on page #5 of this very thread and I do not know how to go to the bottom of this thread and look at related topics, I have to accuse someone of something that I am not smart enough to look up and confirm for myself. In normal life need someone to tell me things that I can see for myself.

Will someone tell me when I have to go to the bathroom next time? I cannot figure that out for myself either.

Peace

I can't help about the shape I'm in.
I can't sing, I ain't pretty and my legs are thin.
But don't ask me what I think of you.
I might not give the answer that you what me to.

OH WELL :D

Now, when I talked to God I knew he'd understand.
He said, "Stand by my side and I'll be your guiding hand.
But don't don't ask me what I think of you.
I might not give the answer that you want me to".

OH WELL :D

Nothing like a song for every occassion.:)